Trying to combine old and new -- looking for advice

[Eppie]

I really appreciate the time you guys are spending on this. My receiver is an SR940 from 1983. The knobs for bass, treble and balance are gone, but the stems that held them still light up. The remote is long gone; I've seen them for sale on the internet. I have Speakers A and Speakers B, one of which has quit working. I think the other channel is getting weak too; it just doesn't sound good. It sounds terrible when the optical cable from the TV is the source. I have the device for converting optical to RCA plugs but I gave up on it because the sound quality was so poor. I'm ready to replace the old Marantz. It still looks good and would probably make a restoration project for someone. I'm sentimental about my 901s too, originally bought in 1983 and replaced in the 90s when the cone material disintegrated and Bose offered all us owners a new pair for $500. But I don't need the power in a system that I wanted in my misspent youth, and I've always known they weren't great for clarity. Nowadays we'd like to listen to movies or the music channels on DirecTV through the stereo, but we don't watch a lot of movies and don't need a home theater system. I'm especially averse to surround sound if it means that regular stereo recordings don't sound good with it. Sterling mentioned KEF speakers. I'd be interested in their bookshelf speakers for $600 if they have any bass to them. I notice their "woofer" is the same size as the 18 speakers I currently have in my 901's, so I wonder. I would go 5 or 6 hundred on a receiver. I have a DVD player to play CDs and don't care if I have a radio. Any further feedback would be appreciated.

Sterling mentioned in another thread that the Marantz NR1200 sells for around $650, so much less than the retail price I quoted above. Audioholics just happened to do a review of speakers in the $600 range linked here. I'd have to look up the specs to compare how low they go if bass is a concern, but modern bookshelves have come a long way since those 901s and produce pretty decent bass in a small form factor. Have a look at that review and see if anything peaks your interest.

 

[Mike S.]

Sterling mentioned in another thread that the Marantz NR1200 sells for around $650, so much less than the retail price I quoted above. Audioholics just happened to do a review of speakers in the $600 range linked here. I'd have to look up the specs to compare how low they go if bass is a concern, but modern bookshelves have come a long way since those 901s and produce pretty decent bass in a small form factor. Have a look at that review and see if anything peaks your interest.

I showed these to the boss. She likes strong bass for classic rock and favors the CMT-340 and the Bronze 100. I like the thump too but am more concerned with clear voices on TV and the occasional classical CD. The Q150 looks good to me. If any of these models have passionate fans or skeptics on the site, I'd love to see a good fight.

 

[TLS Guy]

I showed these to the boss. She likes strong bass for classic rock and favors the CMT-340 and the Bronze 100. I like the thump too but am more concerned with clear voices on TV and the occasional classical CD. The Q150 looks good to me. If any of these models have passionate fans or skeptics on the site, I'd love to see a good fight.

I think that is a good choice. The bass with a F3 of 50 Hz will be adequate but not thunderous. With your hearing problem those speakers are probably your best bet at that price range. As funds allow, you can add a MATCHING center, which in your case, I think would help you by having dialog straight ahead.

If your wife wants thunderous, you can add a sub and switch it off when watching news etc. Subs too loud are renowned for obscuring dialog, especially if turned up to high, which they frequently are.

I think you are on the right lines, and I will be very surprised if you don't notice a marked increase in speech discrimination. Let us know how it pans out.

 

[Mike S.]

I think that is a good choice. The bass with a F3 of 50 Hz will be adequate but not thunderous. With your hearing problem those speakers are probably your best bet at that price range. As funds allow, you can add a MATCHING center, which in your case, I think would help you by having dialog straight ahead.

If your wife wants thunderous, you can add a sub and switch it off when watching news etc. Subs too loud are renowned for obscuring dialog, especially if turned up to high, which they frequently are.

I think you are on the right lines, and I will be very surprised if you don't notice a marked increase in speech discrimination. Let us know how it pans out.

Just to be clear, are you referring to the KEFs?

 

[TLS Guy]

Just to be clear, are you referring to the KEFs?

Yes, the KEF Q 150s. The coincident drivers will be a big assist with your hearing problem. My design for the center channel uses SEAS coxials produced under license form KEF, and the dialog is outstanding, and not just the dialog. It is an outstanding speaker.

 

[Mike S.]

Yes, the KEF Q 150s. The coincident drivers will be a big assist with your hearing problem. My design for the center channel uses SEAS coxials produced under license form KEF, and the dialog is outstanding, and not just the dialog. It is an outstanding speaker.

Thanks.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No system is going to make hearing aids sound good.

Oh sorry.

No, if they sound nice to you, I think you’re good to go.

 

[Mike S.]

Oh sorry.

No, if they sound nice to you, I think you’re good to go.

I haven't heard any of these speakers. I'm going on testimonials. The KEF 150s seem like a good choice with the option of adding a sub. If anyone has thoughts on a receiver in the $500 range or so, I'd be all ears.

 

[lovinthehd]

If you have tolerance for a bit of risk for a refurb unit, this might be a good place to start https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html

 

[Eppie]

TLS Guy has years of experience in speaker design so I would trust his advice in choosing a design that yields better clarity for dialogue. The CMT with dual woofers may look like it would produce more bass, but the difference in bass response of those 3 models is only 2 or 3 Hz, and if the speakers are placed close to a wall you will get a little more bass extension with wall coupling. The KEF Q series are very well regarded. (You may need stands to get them to the proper height.)

The link for Accessories4less above will yield some good savings for a factory refurb unit. Members here generally recommend Denon, Marantz and Yamaha. You can save a bit going with a 5.1 receiver instead of 7.2 since you only intend to use 2 channels, maybe 3 if you add a centre channel speaker. (Take that into account since some speaker models may only be available in pairs.) If the speakers will be close together (only 6' or 8' apart) then a centre speaker is likely not needed and you can run a 'phantom centre'.

Accessories4less also carry the KEFs in both new and recertified condition. With recertification you can can get the Q350 (with a 6.5" driver vs the Q150's 5.25" driver) for the same price. Depends on whether you insist on getting brand new or not.

Check out the speakers at home first and then decide if a subwoofer is needed. For the budget conscious there are subs by Dayton under $200 that would work well as you likely don't require the volumes that others here strive for. For something closer in quality to the KEFs, subwoofers from SVS start around $500.

 

[Mike S.]

TLS Guy has years of experience in speaker design so I would trust his advice in choosing a design that yields better clarity for dialogue. The CMT with dual woofers may look like it would produce more bass, but the difference in bass response of those 3 models is only 2 or 3 Hz, and if the speakers are placed close to a wall you will get a little more bass extension with wall coupling. The KEF Q series are very well regarded. (You may need stands to get them to the proper height.)

The link for Accessories4less above will yield some good savings for a factory refurb unit. Members here generally recommend Denon, Marantz and Yamaha. You can save a bit going with a 5.1 receiver instead of 7.2 since you only intend to use 2 channels, maybe 3 if you add a centre channel speaker. (Take that into account since some speaker models may only be available in pairs.) If the speakers will be close together (only 6' or 8' apart) then a centre speaker is likely not needed and you can run a 'phantom centre'.

Accessories4less also carry the KEFs in both new and recertified condition. With recertification you can can get the Q350 (with a 6.5" driver vs the Q150's 5.25" driver) for the same price. Depends on whether you insist on getting brand new or not.

Check out the speakers at home first and then decide if a subwoofer is needed. For the budget conscious there are subs by Dayton under $200 that would work well as you likely don't require the volumes that others here strive for. For something closer in quality to the KEFs, subwoofers from SVS start around $500.

Is a small shelf advisable for "bookshelf" speakers, or does that block sound? Those stands are expensive.

 

[TLS Guy]

Is a small shelf advisable for "bookshelf" speakers, or does that block sound? Those stands are expensive.

Unfortunately, and paradoxically, putting a bookshelf speaker on a shelf does rather spoil the sound. Not by blocking it, but due to boundary reinforcement. Every speaker has a transition point where the sound transitions, from being forward and directional, to omnidirectional. The narrower the speaker the higher the frequency of that transition point. Speakers are designed to compensate for this. Most design speakers to be optimal at 14" from all hard boundaries. So if the speaker is closer, then there will be reinforcement of those frequencies below the transition. This is all somewhat arbitrary. However a designer has no idea how a user will place a speaker to any given boundaries. This can only be optimized if the designer is also the end user, which gives the skilled home designer an advantage assuming the individual knows how to optimize his advantage.

Stands do not have to cost a fortune, but they do need to be reasonably sturdy, otherwise the speaker will end up on the floor.

In choosing a bookshelf design, stand costs do need to be factored in. So this reduces the cost advantage of a "bookshelf" speaker over a free standing tower design.

There are a lot of stands out there, and a wide variety for sale on, you guessed it, Amazon. These look reasonable to me.

I personally counsel against refurb receivers. There is luck involved. Many are open box returns that have no problem. However a lot are returned for intermittent faults. These faults can be very hard to detect and correct. The technician may in good faith feel he has solved the problem, when he has not, and the fault then shows up again in the next buyers system.

 

[sterling shoote]

Let's start with what your goal is. If it is simply to connect the TV to your music system, there are cheaper ways to do that. There are devices that will convert the optical audio out from the TV into a line level stereo signal with RCA outputs which can be connected into the AUX input (or other line level input) of your current Marantz. You could do that for $20 and just need a long enough RCA cable.

If you want improved dialogue with TV viewing, a pair of modern bookshelves will help there. The 901s have 1 forward and 8 rear facing drivers and rely in reflected sound which is good for immersiveness but not good imaging or clarity. You could still use the old Marantz and the optical to RCA converter for the TV and change speakers to something more modern like the KEF bookshelves.

Top of the budget is to replace both the receiver and speakers. I don't think it makes sense to replace the Marantz and keep the 901s. The 901s have to be used with the EQ and since few (if any) modern receivers have both pre-amp out and amp-in, you would likely be looking at a separate video pre-amp and amplifier to use the 901 eq and that bumps the price up a lot.

If you don't need surround sound, just 2 channel audio, the Marantz NR1200 pictured above by sterling shoote will do the job as it has optical in for the TV, AM/FM tuner and connections for a turntable or CD player. That's $900 retail though and what would you have left for speakers?

Let us know which option makes the most sense to you and if you can provide a budget we can recommend the best bang for the dollar. FYI your old Marantz could be worth several hundred dollars depending upon theT model and condition. That could help your budget.

The Marantz sells for $649, leaving enough left over on a grand budget to get a pair of JBL Studio 530's when on sale. Amazon has em now for about $398 a pair.

 

[sterling shoote]

I see KEF bookshelf speakers for $600. Would they be worth having, or do you have to bump up to their pricier stuff? You mentioned Klipsch and JBL, familiar names from the 80s. I always thought that "folded horn" concept from Klipsch was kind of an indirect way to bring sound waves to your ear, much like my 901s bouncing sound off the wall.

Get the JBL Studio 530's. Amazon has them on sale now for about $398 a pair. Everybody is impressed with the performance of these speakers, as well as value. And, I do mean everybody. Buy the Marantz NR 1200 Receiver too and you will have exactly what you want.

 

[Mike S.]

Unfortunately, and paradoxically, putting a bookshelf speaker on a shelf does rather spoil the sound. Not by blocking it, but due to boundary reinforcement. Every speaker has a transition point where the sound transitions, from being forward and directional, to omnidirectional. The narrower the speaker the higher the frequency of that transition point. Speakers are designed to compensate for this. Most design speakers to be optimal at 14" from all hard boundaries. So if the speaker is closer, then there will be reinforcement of those frequencies below the transition. This is all somewhat arbitrary. However a designer has no idea how a user will place a speaker to any given boundaries. This can only be optimized if the designer is also the end user, which gives the skilled home designer an advantage assuming the individual knows how to optimize his advantage.

Stands do not have to cost a fortune, but they do need to be reasonably sturdy, otherwise the speaker will end up on the floor.

In choosing a bookshelf design, stand costs do need to be factored in. So this reduces the cost advantage of a "bookshelf" speaker over a free standing tower design.

There are a lot of stands out there, and a wide variety for sale on, you guessed it, Amazon. These look reasonable to me.

I personally counsel against refurb receivers. There is luck involved. Many are open box returns that have no problem. However a lot are returned for intermittent faults. These faults can be very hard to detect and correct. The technician may in good faith feel he has solved the problem, when he has not, and the fault then shows up again in the next buyers system.

Again, I really appreciate the time you guys are spending on enlightening me. On the subject of shelves for speakers, is it proximity to the wall that disrupts the flow of sound? I can't see how the surface the speaker is sitting on would matter -- shelf or speaker stand. But a shelf would be close to the wall while a stand could be anywhere.

 

[Mike S.]

The Marantz sells for $649, leaving enough left over on a grand budget to get a pair of JBL Studio 530's when on sale. Amazon has em now for about $398 a pair.

The Marantz sells for $649, leaving enough left over on a grand budget to get a pair of JBL Studio 530's when on sale. Amazon has em now for about $398 a pair.
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How do the JBL 530s compare to the KEF 150s, in your opinion?

 

[lovinthehd]

Again, I really appreciate the time you guys are spending on enlightening me. On the subject of shelves for speakers, is it proximity to the wall that disrupts the flow of sound? I can't see how the surface the speaker is sitting on would matter -- shelf or speaker stand. But a shelf would be close to the wall while a stand could be anywhere.

Yes wall (or floor or ceiling) is the type of boundary mentioned by TLS....

 

[sterling shoote]

I have zero experience with KEF.

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW while I own the JBL 530 I've only used it as a front wide and rear surround, never just L/R. Good speaker, tho it has its limits of course.

 

[Mike S.]

FWIW while I own the JBL 530 I've only used it as a front wide and rear surround, never just L/R. Good speaker, tho it has its limits of course.

If I'm used to 901s, will they sound like pipsqueaks to me?