Adam Kinzinger (R-IL)

[GO-NAD!]

I'm center-left and I'm telling you I can judge left and right on their own merits. My point is CNN would do well to remember that there is cult behavior on all sides. It's one of my frustrations with the media.

The mass of Trump supporters seem to speak with one voice, spouting the same old BS. The views of the left are so diverse - a reflection of the "big tent" demographics predominating on that side of the political spectrum - that they would qualify as the worst cult, ever.

 

[cpp]

These news stations regardless of who these are, do one thing, and that is slant the news to ensure they get good ratings. Its a ratings game and they spin it to win it.

 

[Mr._Clark]

These news stations regardless of who these are, do one thing, and that is slant the news to ensure they get good ratings. Its a ratings game and they spin it to win it.

True, but I'm surprised that people seem to be so interested in non-stop political coverage. For the most part "news" seems to be dominated by politics these days. Shep Smith might be an exception (the times I have watched him the show did not seem to be excessively focussed on politics, but I have not watched enough to know if that's generally true).

>>>In primetime, Fox News averaged 2.47 million viewers, compared to MSNBC with 2.19 million and CNN with 1.69 million. In the 25-54 demo, CNN was on top with 411,000, compared to Fox News with 365,000 and MSNBC with 340,000.<<<

February Ratings: MSNBC Tops In Total Day Viewers, CNN Wins Key Demo, Fox News Takes Primetime

MSNBC drew the most total day viewers in February, beating all other cable networks in the ratings yardstick, while The Rachel Maddow Show was the top regularly scheduled show. The other news networks also were touting their numbers: CNN beat other networks in the 25-54 demographic in the total...

deadline.com

 

[highfigh]

I'm an atheist and frankly find those "christians" to be of the type that worships Mammon and use their religion as an excuse for bigotry and racism. As you might have guess, I do not hold white "christian evangelicals" in high regard.

I never thought "killing in the name of god" was a valid reason. I saw a clip last night of a guy from a 'church' (he was wearing normal clothes) talking about whether someone would go to hell if they didn't know about god in the Christian/Catholic sense and he said they would.

I don't like their idea that doing good is for ensuring a one way trip to heaven, rather than for the people being helped and any goal of just being a good/better person. Churches should be taxed, just like anyone else, IMO. They have accountants- let THEM find the write-offs. Imagine the revenue that could be used to help people if they paid property tax. Also, the ornamentation in some churches could fund whole countries- I have a huge problem with that, too.

 

[highfigh]

I'm center-left and I'm telling you I can judge left and right on their own merits. My point is CNN would do well to remember that there is cult behavior on all sides. It's one of my frustrations with the media.

IMO, it's the duty of every person to look for flaws in all aspects of government and all politicians. There are far too many who can't even consider the possibility that "their guy" is dirty or lacking in some way.

 

[jinjuku]

Why just CNN, are they particularly into this? I don't use CNN much.....

Well CNN is the reporting agency linked to in the thread. I thought it would be odd to just start throwing PBS into the mix.

 

[jinjuku]

I don't consider those cults

I dunno. Which group got Martina Navratilova canceled?

 

[cpp]

True, but I'm surprised that people seem to be so interested in non-stop political coverage. For the most part "news" seems to be dominated by politics these days. Shep Smith might be an exception (the times I have watched him the show did not seem to be excessively focussed on politics, but I have not watched enough to know if that's generally true).

>>>In primetime, Fox News averaged 2.47 million viewers, compared to MSNBC with 2.19 million and CNN with 1.69 million. In the 25-54 demo, CNN was on top with 411,000, compared to Fox News with 365,000 and MSNBC with 340,000.<<<

February Ratings: MSNBC Tops In Total Day Viewers, CNN Wins Key Demo, Fox News Takes Primetime

MSNBC drew the most total day viewers in February, beating all other cable networks in the ratings yardstick, while The Rachel Maddow Show was the top regularly scheduled show. The other news networks also were touting their numbers: CNN beat other networks in the 25-54 demographic in the total...

deadline.com

Hell I get to a point , I just change the channel these days when news is on, to include local news. Catch up on the local weather and sports and that's it. Like you noted, its all about politics and Covid, 24-7 it seems,

 

[jinjuku]

I don't like their idea that doing good is for ensuring a one way trip to heaven, rather than for the people being helped and any goal of just being a good/better person. Churches should be taxed, just like anyone else, IMO. They have accountants- let THEM find the write-offs. Imagine the revenue that could be used to help people if they paid property tax. Also, the ornamentation in some churches could fund whole countries- I have a huge problem with that, too.

If your moral compass requires almost 100% external measures to point north... I shudder at that thought. You're only not a despicable human being because some unknown force, like Santa Clause, knows if you've been good or bad?

 

[jinjuku]

The mass of Trump supporters seem to speak with one voice, spouting the same old BS. The views of the left are so diverse - a reflection of the "big tent" demographics predominating on that side of the political spectrum - that they would qualify as the worst cult, ever.

You ever see me give anyone a pass? You should look back about 6 years here in a religion based thread were I absolutely tore some people new sphincters.

 

[Mr._Clark]

The mass of Trump supporters seem to speak with one voice, spouting the same old BS. The views of the left are so diverse - a reflection of the "big tent" demographics predominating on that side of the political spectrum - that they would qualify as the worst cult, ever.

I'm not so sure. You'd have to compare the Trumpists before they devoted their lives to Trump to those on the left right now. I suspect a lot of the "one voice" effect is a result of Trump, not a fundamental difference between people who are nominally at different ends of the political spectrum.

Keep in mind that Trump's rise was fueled in part by his attacks on what were considered at the time to be conservative positions and politicians. The topic of this thread is an example of an attack on a conservative by Trumpists. Trump's appeal is not closely tied to specific ideological positions, it's all about Trump the person. I'm not a fan of S.E. Cupp (second link below), but it's hard to see how the die hard Trumpists are conservative in any normal sense of the word.

If you take the 30 million number in the WaPost item below as a reasonable estimate of the number of die hard Trumpists, this is actually not a huge number given that there are something like 250 million adults in the U.S. Even if there are diverse views on the left, it seems possible that there might be 30 million who would follow a leftist version of Trump. This is actually one of the things that bothers me about Trump. As I see it, the Trump effect is largely built on emotions, not specific ideological positions.

Also, I'm not sure how people with significantly different views on topics can all be considered to be on the left? Surely they must at least broadly share some views or they wouldn't all be on the left? I suppose it's possible if you define "left" as anyone who is not a Trumpist.

Basically, I don't think Trump worship is built on specific ideologies, so differences in ideology won't necessarily prevent something similar on the left.

You are of course free to disagree with me.

>>>According to a recent poll, 52 percent of Republican voters believe President Trump “rightfully won” the election. These are the true believers, an army 30 million strong — possibly more, given our recent history of polling errors — who hoist “Stop the Steal” signs at protests and murmur dark rumors about Dominion voting machines and ballots in dumpsters.<<<

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/12/02/alternative-medicine-trump-supporters-election/

Don’t dare call it conservative: Republicans who follow Trump have betrayed their philosophy

Among the many atrocities Donald Trump heaped upon the United States in four short years — a grotesque child separation policy that’s orphaned more than 600 kids, an increase in white s…

www.nydailynews.com

 

[GO-NAD!]

You ever see me give anyone a pass? You should look back about 6 years here in a religion based thread were I absolutely tore some people new sphincters.

I'm not sure how that response corresponds with my post.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I'm not so sure. You'd have to compare the Trumpists before they devoted their lives to Trump to those on the left right now. I suspect a lot of the "one voice" effect is a result of Trump, not a fundamental difference between people who are nominally at different ends of the political spectrum.

Keep in mind that Trump's rise was fueled in part by his attacks on what were considered at the time to be conservative positions and politicians. The topic of this thread is an example of an attack on a conservative by Trumpists. Trump's appeal is not closely tied to specific ideological positions, it's all about Trump the person. I'm not a fan of S.E. Cupp (second link below), but it's hard to see how the die hard Trumpists are conservative in any normal sense of the word.

If you take the 30 million number in the WaPost item below as a reasonable estimate of the number of die hard Trumpists, this is actually not a huge number given that there are something like 250 million adults in the U.S. Even if there are diverse views on the left, it seems possible that there might be 30 million who would follow a leftist version of Trump. This is actually one of the things that bothers me about Trump. As I see it, the Trump effect is largely built on emotions, not specific ideological positions.

Also, I'm not sure how people with significantly different views on topics can all be considered to be on the left? Surely they must at least broadly share some views or they wouldn't all be on the left? I suppose it's possible if you define "left" as anyone who is not a Trumpist.

Basically, I don't think Trump worship is built on specific ideologies, so differences in ideology won't necessarily prevent something similar on the left.

You are of course free to disagree with me.

>>>According to a recent poll, 52 percent of Republican voters believe President Trump “rightfully won” the election. These are the true believers, an army 30 million strong — possibly more, given our recent history of polling errors — who hoist “Stop the Steal” signs at protests and murmur dark rumors about Dominion voting machines and ballots in dumpsters.<<<

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/12/02/alternative-medicine-trump-supporters-election/

Don’t dare call it conservative: Republicans who follow Trump have betrayed their philosophy

Among the many atrocities Donald Trump heaped upon the United States in four short years — a grotesque child separation policy that’s orphaned more than 600 kids, an increase in white s…

www.nydailynews.com

I'm not saying that a cult of personality couldn't form on the left. But, who might be a candidate to fill that role?

While Trumpists may self-identify as conservatives, I think you're correct in that many - if not all - of them conform with the conventional definition. I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that cults generally coalesce on a specific person - Trump, in this case.

On the left - which includes groups that self-identify as such or groups that have been "consigned" to that spectrum, regardless of their views - you have social progressives, economic socialists and combinations of both, in kind and degree. That's the 10,000 foot view. Zoom in, and those categories can be subdivided into a practically infinite number of sub-categories.

I may be wrong, but I don't think there is such diversity of views on the right. You have conventional conservatives and Trumpists. You can probably subdivide those groups, as well, but I don't think their nearly as diverse as groups on the left.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm not saying that a cult of personality couldn't form on the left. But, who might be a candidate to fill that role?

Bernie Sanders.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I may be wrong, but I don't think there is such diversity of views on the right. You have conventional conservatives and Trumpists. You can probably subdivide those groups, as well, but I don't think their nearly as diverse as groups on the left.

I've always considered myself center-right, which means I fall more into the conservative category than the liberal or progressive categories, but lately I don't feel aligned with either party. The religion and anti-science nonsense in the GOP makes me want to puke. The anti-capitalism and everyone is a victim mentalities in the Democratic Party gives me the same reaction. The so-called "progressives" in the Democratic party are just like the Trumpians in the Republican party - viruses invading a complacent host. It's also tiring to have perfectly good words like "progressive" and "conservative" hijacked and redefined by people with negative agendas.

 

[highfigh]

If your moral compass requires almost 100% external measures to point north... I shudder at that thought. You're only not a despicable human being because some unknown force, like Santa Clause, knows if you've been good or bad?

Some people need that validation but it seems that a lot of people don't worry about being good, if the news is any indication.

Receiving presents instead of a lump of coal is the reinforcement little kids needed because they hadn't received the teachings of whatever religion their parents were going to expose them to- it has to be a lot easier than answering the questions from children that might cast doubt.

Many acts of the RC church have been despicable- I think I would be more in line with the Lutherans than RC if I were interested but I really don't think about it that much.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Bernie Sanders.

I thought about him, but discounted the idea. Whether you agree with him, or not, his policies/agenda/philosophy aren't all about him. He's certainly no left-wing analog of Trump. In fact, at this point in time, I don't see anyone on the left who would qualify. Whatever one's opinion of the "usual suspects" on the left - Sanders, Warren, AOC, etc.- they all talk about policy, not themselves. Bernie has his "Bernie bros", but they're a faint shadow of the Trumpistas.

I should note, it's pretty clear that Trump doesn't have any particular political philosophy. It just that his shtick happened to appeal to people on the right/far right.

Again, a Trump-like figure could arise who could appeal to the left. I just don't see one yet.

 

[lp85253]

Bernie Sanders.

Completely wrong Bernie is about an idea, not about his own self growth.. See that's what is the difference in right vs left ideology in modern American politics.. The right tries to equate and project all their greed and bad behavior as it applies to the enemy... The big problem with that.?? It's not equal.. The greed of the current gop/ right wing is demonstrably greater and more evil in thought and policy than the left... A great example of the difference? Cruz vs AOC in their actions in regards to the texas power /water crisis ... But anybody with an open mind could expect the reaction from each..

 

[lp85253]

I thought about him, but discounted the idea. Whether you agree with him, or not, his policies/agenda/philosophy aren't all about him. He's certainly no left-wing analog of Trump. In fact, at this point in time, I don't see anyone on the left who would qualify. Whatever one's opinion of the "usual suspects" on the left - Sanders, Warren, AOC, etc.- they all talk about policy, not themselves. Bernie has his "Bernie bros", but they're a faint shadow of the Trumpistas.

I should note, it's pretty clear that Trump doesn't have any particular political philosophy. It just that his shtick happened to appeal to people on the right/far right.

Again, a Trump-like figure could arise who could appeal to the left. I just don't see one yet.

The right is constantly trying to project their own evil onto the left by trying to push the thought that since they are inherently evil and greedy the left wing must be also.. And the left wing is " the others"...Trump equivalent on the left Andrew Cuomo...Except the left knows he's an ahole and his shelf life is this term in office...

 

[Irvrobinson]

Completely wrong Bernie is about an idea, not about his own self growth.. See that's what is the difference in right vs left ideology in modern American politics.. The right tries to equate and project all their greed and bad behavior as it applies to the enemy... The big problem with that.?? It's not equal.. The greed of the current gop/ right wing is demonstrably greater and more evil in thought and policy than the left... A great example of the difference? Cruz vs AOC in their actions in regards to the texas power /water crisis ... But anybody with an open mind could expect the reaction from each..

Such bullshit. Bernie is as power hungry as any politician I've ever encountered. His agenda is driven by government control of, well, pretty much everything. His ignorance of how the economy works never ceases to amaze me. Worse, he is dishonest. Like how he named his signature agenda - Medicare for All. It is nothing like Medicare. You only like Bernie because you want the government to provide for you, oh yeah, and you hate anyone richer than you are, so you are aligned with Bernie on those points.

As Cruz and AOC, well, I'm not a fan of Cruz either. As for AOC, what she did in TX is the only good thing I ever remember her doing.