New 5.1.4 but Dolby Atmos voices are muffled - Please help!!!

[Andres314]

I'm pretty new to all this but I have done my homework... still can't resolve this issue. I have a Sony X900H 85" TV. When the audio out is on "Auto 1" or "Auto 2" the Movie plays in Atmos and sounds fantastic but voices are muffled. When I place it on "PCM" of course it's only on stereo... the movie is not immersive but the voices are CRISP over my 5.1.4 system. Should Atmos vocals not sound as sharp? or is there some setting I'm missing? Even people that come over mention how awesome the surround and bass are but the vocals sound muffled.

Yes, I do understand there are some equipment mistakes but this is what I have... based on budgets and black Friday deals:

Sony X900H connected via ARC with Zeskit 8K Ultra HD High Speed 48Gpbs HDMI Cable 10ft to Denon AVR-X3700H
All speakers are less than 50ft runs and are connected via 14-Gauge Audio Speaker Wire Cable - 99.9% Oxygen-Free Copper
Subwoofer connected via LFE - Mediabridge ULTRA Series Subwoofer Cable (15 Feet) - Dual Shielded with Gold Plated RCA to RCA Connectors
Sub - Klipsch SPL-150SW 15 Inch Powered Subwoofer
Left and Right - Klipsch RP-8060 FA Dolby Atmos Floorstanding Speaker
Center - Klipsch RP-504C Center Channel Speaker
surround - Klipsch RP-502S Surround Sound Speakers
rear Atmos - Klipsch CDT-5650-C II In-Ceiling Speaker

I've ran Audyssey from the receiver. I've re-ran Audyssey from AVR Audyssey app with and without "a curtain" at 500Hz. No matter what I do, when a movie plays in Atmos, my center speaker voices are just muffled! UGH....... Any suggestions?

Side note: When I ran Audyssey - numerous times, it would say my center channel and sometimes my rear heights polarity was reversed. I've double/triple checked and the wires are correct. I'm not color blind and its very simple to see red is connected to red and black to black. Is this a known issue?? (I selected "ignore" and continue).

Thanks in advance for any insights you can provide!

 

[shadyJ]

It's either a set up issue, a faulty center channel speaker, or faulty center channel output on the amp. First, we have to rule out set up. Turn off Audyssey and set all channels to the same level. Now play some content back: does it still sound muffled? If not, Audyssey was screwing things up. Now with Audyssey off and all channels set to the same level, we need to run test tones on each channel individually. When you run test tones to each channel, they should all sound similarly loud. If the center channel is quiet, then that could mean it's a hardware problem. Then what you do is swap one of the left or right speakers for the center channel speaker on the amp. If the speaker on the center channel amp channel is still quite or muffled, then we know it's an amp problem. However, if the problem follows the center speaker, we know that it is a speaker problem.

 

[Trebdp83]

If all else checks out, consider placement. Where is that center channel located? Deep in a cabinet? Any objects in front of it? Far above or below ear height?

 

[lovinthehd]

As a non-Atmos person so far, curious, why would voices come from overhead particularly?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

As a non-Atmos person so far, curious, why would voices come from overhead particularly?

Huh, I missed that. Maybe?
They shouldn’t come from overhead. Unless it’s in the track, or DSU/DTSnx messes up.

 

[mazersteven]

As a non-Atmos person so far, curious, why would voices come from overhead particularly?

You never listen to the voices in your head?

 

[lovinthehd]

Huh, I missed that. Maybe?
They shouldn’t come from overhead. Unless it’s in the track, or DSU/DTSnx messes up.

Yeah that's what I was curious about....and an upmixer vs dedicated content could well be different.

 

[Andres314]

It's either a set up issue, a faulty center channel speaker, or faulty center channel output on the amp. First, we have to rule out set up. Turn off Audyssey and set all channels to the same level. Now play some content back: does it still sound muffled? If not, Audyssey was screwing things up. Now with Audyssey off and all channels set to the same level, we need to run test tones on each channel individually. When you run test tones to each channel, they should all sound similarly loud. If the center channel is quiet, then that could mean it's a hardware problem. Then what you do is swap one of the left or right speakers for the center channel speaker on the amp. If the speaker on the center channel amp channel is still quite or muffled, then we know it's an amp problem. However, if the problem follows the center speaker, we know that it is a speaker problem.

I reset the receiver to start fresh.
Set speaker /amp assign to 9.1ch
speakers/speaker Config all set to small.
When I go to test tones, left and right sound better (different) than the center.

It's not placement of speakers - I have my center sitting on a box until I build a floating shelf. All speakers are in the open, unobstructed. I'm not sure what to think here - here's why ... when testing...

when I go thru the wizard to set up the speakers, the center sounds different than my left, right & rear surrounds.
** Should I be able to swap my speaker connections for Left and center? and see if the left speaker sounds different? (since it's in the center position) - if it does, then it's the receiver? If I swap and the center speaker still sounds different, then I know it's the center?

Also, When I run audyssey setup, it tells me my rear ceiling speakers AND my center Phase is backwards (which I KNOW it's not...

 

[lovinthehd]

Got pics of the room?

 

[shadyJ]

I reset the receiver to start fresh.
Set speaker /amp assign to 9.1ch
speakers/speaker Config all set to small.
When I go to test tones, left and right sound better (different) than the center.

It's not placement of speakers - I have my center sitting on a box until I build a floating shelf. All speakers are in the open, unobstructed. I'm not sure what to think here - here's why ... when testing...

when I go thru the wizard to set up the speakers, the center sounds different than my left, right & rear surrounds.
** Should I be able to swap my speaker connections for Left and center? and see if the left speaker sounds different? (since it's in the center position) - if it does, then it's the receiver? If I swap and the center speaker still sounds different, then I know it's the center?

Also, When I run audyssey setup, it tells me my rear ceiling speakers AND my center Phase is backwards (which I KNOW it's not...

Yes, swap the speaker connections. Connect either the left or right speaker to the center channel amp posts, and connect the center speaker to the left/right speaker amp binding post. Run the tones and see if the strangeness carries over to the left/right speaker or if it stays with the center. If it stays with the center, we can say it is the speaker that is the problem. Obviously, if the strangeness carries over to the left/right speaker, it is the AVR that is the problem.

Your rear ceiling speakers or center speaker could easily be reversed in phase. You might have wired it correctly, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a mistake in manufacturing. I have seen that happen more than once.

 

[Andres314]

I reset the receiver to start fresh.
Set speaker /amp assign to 9.1ch
speakers/speaker Config all set to small.
When I go to test tones, left and right sound better (different) than the center.

It's not placement of speakers - I have my center sitting on a box until I build a floating shelf. All speakers are in the open, unobstructed. I'm not sure what to think here - here's why ... when testing...

when I go thru the wizard to set up the speakers, the center sounds different than my left, right & rear surrounds.
** Should I be able to swap my speaker connections for Left and center? and see if the left speaker sounds different? (since it's in the center position) - if it does, then it's the receiver? If I swap and the center speaker still sounds different, then I know it's the center?

Also, When I run audyssey setup, it tells me my rear ceiling speakers AND my center Phase is backwards (which I KNOW it's not...

BTW - I decided to swap out left and center and rerun the audyssey setup and and it only complained about the back ceiling. Then swapped it again, and only complaining about the back ceiling again.

Left and right sound exactly the same and center speaker sounds different on thru the wizzard and thru audyssey setup.
Once last note - when I play music and it's in stereo, the center sounds perfect. The center only sounds muffled when in Atmos.

Are there any known issues with Denon and audyssey setup reporting phases incorrectly? or is that a dead giveaway there is something wrong with the receiver?

Thanks again!

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, since the center is different, why would it particularly sound just like the L or R?

 

[MainSource]

I reset the receiver to start fresh.
Set speaker /amp assign to 9.1ch
speakers/speaker Config all set to small.
When I go to test tones, left and right sound better (different) than the center.

It's not placement of speakers - I have my center sitting on a box until I build a floating shelf. All speakers are in the open, unobstructed. I'm not sure what to think here - here's why ... when testing...

when I go thru the wizard to set up the speakers, the center sounds different than my left, right & rear surrounds.
** Should I be able to swap my speaker connections for Left and center? and see if the left speaker sounds different? (since it's in the center position) - if it does, then it's the receiver? If I swap and the center speaker still sounds different, then I know it's the center?

Also, When I run audyssey setup, it tells me my rear ceiling speakers AND my center Phase is backwards (which I KNOW it's not...

For some reason audyssey often sees 3 way speakers as having a reverse phase, are yours 3 way, if so simply correct it

 

[shadyJ]

BTW - I decided to swap out left and center and rerun the audyssey setup and and it only complained about the back ceiling. Then swapped it again, and only complaining about the back ceiling again.

Left and right sound exactly the same and center speaker sounds different on thru the wizzard and thru audyssey setup.
Once last note - when I play music and it's in stereo, the center sounds perfect. The center only sounds muffled when in Atmos.

Are there any known issues with Denon and audyssey setup reporting phases incorrectly? or is that a dead giveaway there is something wrong with the receiver?

Thanks again!

If you are playing music in stereo, the center shouldn't even be on. Music should just come through the left and right.

How does the center sound when playing non-Atmos sources? Like DTS or regular Dolby Digital?

 

[Andres314]

Yes, swap the speaker connections. Connect either the left or right speaker to the center channel amp posts, and connect the center speaker to the left/right speaker amp binding post. Run the tones and see if the strangeness carries over to the left/right speaker or if it stays with the center. If it stays with the center, we can say it is the speaker that is the problem. Obviously, if the strangeness carries over to the left/right speaker, it is the AVR that is the problem.

Your rear ceiling speakers or center speaker could easily be reversed in phase. You might have wired it correctly, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a mistake in manufacturing. I have seen that happen more than once.

Okay - so I did some research on Audyssey setup and reporting phase error. I THOUGHT It was actually checking current flow but it's just checking the reaction to the speakers. So it makes sense it would be reporting an error since I haven't mounted my speakers yet. They are sitting on the floor for testing before I cut the ceiling and install them.

As far as center channel
I attempted to upload the mp3 but it was not allowed. I suppose I can upload a quick video to youtube for you to listen to... if you feel the need. Starts off with left, then center, then right, then center, left, center, right... you will notice the left and right sounds the same but the center sounds different. When I swap out the center and left on the receiver, it follows the speaker.

So here is the question - should the test tone sound the same on Klipsch RP-8060 FA and Klipsch RP-504C Center Channel Speaker? (yes, all the audyssey was set to off and all speakers set to 0.0) All I did is turn up the volume to make sure you can hear the difference on the mp3.

btw - Denon firmware was/has been updated to latest since day 1.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Okay - so I did some research on Audyssey setup and reporting phase error. I THOUGHT It was actually checking current flow but it's just checking the reaction to the speakers. So it makes sense it would be reporting an error since I haven't mounted my speakers yet. They are sitting on the floor for testing before I cut the ceiling and install them.

As far as center channel
I attempted to upload the mp3 but it was not allowed. I suppose I can upload a quick video to youtube for you to listen to... if you feel the need. Starts off with left, then center, then right, then center, left, center, right... you will notice the left and right sounds the same but the center sounds different. When I swap out the center and left on the receiver, it follows the speaker.

So here is the question - should the test tone sound the same on Klipsch RP-8060 FA and Klipsch RP-504C Center Channel Speaker? (yes, all the audyssey was set to off and all speakers set to 0.0) All I did is turn up the volume to make sure you can hear the difference on the mp3.

btw - Denon firmware was/has been updated to latest since day 1.

The tone will likely not sound the same across all speakers due to their response to the room boundaries. This will also affect how you hear the tones based on where you are in the room in relation to them. What matters is how the mic hears them when they’re in the final locations. The differences you hear is what audyssey is trying to EQ out.

 

[lovinthehd]

The tone will likely not sound the same across all speakers due to their response to the room boundaries. This will also affect how you hear the tones based on where you are in the room in relation to them. What matters is how the mic hears them when they’re in the final locations. The differences you hear is what audyssey is trying to EQ out.

If not simply a level difference due different sensitivity, distance....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

If not simply a level difference due different sensitivity, distance....

Yeah for sure. I had already dismissed any db discrepancies I guess. Cart before the horse maybe?
I guess I’ll have a beer and stop typing lol

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah for sure. I had already dismissed any db discrepancies I guess. Cart before the horse maybe?
I guess I’ll have a beer and stop typing lol

That's not a bad idea! The beer that is....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

That's not a bad idea! The beer that is....

Ok. Done.