Advice on subwoofers

[Heardtherewasfood]

Note that most of these ID sub manufacturers do not give very large discounts unless you can find some B-stock/open box returns (some are barely blemished).
However, last year Outlaw had their Ultra-X13 on sale for $1000 each (vs ~$1600 MSRP)! I don't know that they will have such a great markdown in the future, but Outlaw one of the few ID companies that gives a great discount from time to time. They had a good price on there Ultra-X12 as well, but I don't remember the numbers.

Wow I got a lot of great suggestions and ended up with a bunch info to process. All great products. In the end I'm probably gonna have 4 subs for room balance if nothing else.
I think I'm leaning towards getting 2 12" monoliths then wait till Xmas and get 2 for back wall. I can daisy chain them with the spls at the end.
Since there out of stock I have to marinade on this for a month probably change my mind a few times as I continue to read the threads here.
Cheers everyone

 

[Heardtherewasfood]

Subtract nine from those HSU numbers and they'll be accurate comparing them to the Monolith

Yes the Hsu measurements were taken from one meter according the website. I assume the monoliths were taken from two meters? I couldn't find it out.

 

[KEW]

Wow I got a lot of great suggestions and ended up with a bunch info to process. All great products. In the end I'm probably gonna have 4 subs for room balance if nothing else.
I think I'm leaning towards getting 2 12" monoliths then wait till Xmas and get 2 for back wall. I can daisy chain them with the spls at the end.
Since there out of stock I have to marinade on this for a month probably change my mind a few times as I continue to read the threads here.
Cheers everyone

Well, the good thing is you will almost certainly be delighted with any of the subs mentioned in this thread. Some do more than others, but it is a matter of how much you want it to be like there truly is an explosion in your room!
4 subs will be killer!

 

[Danzilla31]

Yes the Hsu measurements were taken from one meter according the website. I assume the monoliths were taken from two meters? I couldn't find it out.

Correct the Monolith were taken at 2 meters hence the reason for the need to subtract 9 from the HSU's numbers but keep in mind those HSU are some great subs

 

[Heardtherewasfood]

Thanks everyone, I'll keep you guys posted

 

[shadyJ]

Call up HSU and see if you can demo. They're in Anaheim or somewhere close by. They will distort more than the Monoliths if I'm not mistaken

The Hsu subs can be pushed into more distortion, but even so their distortion performance is still very good and well above average. Like the 15"s can be pushed to about 10%THD, while the Monolith subs won't really go over 5%THD. The thing is, both quantities are so low that it is inaudible. They are both very clean subs.

 

[3db]

Thanks everyone, I'll keep you guys posted

Have you looked at Rhymik? They are everybit as good as the ones mentioned and can easily play with all the candidates you mentioned. Their servo technology keeps everything nice and linear.

 

[kini]

Just really want to feel the explosion in chest.
Budget maybe $2500
Thanks in advance!

IMO based on the above statement go with the biggest, most powerful sub you can now and then get another down the road. Going with 12s or even some of the less powerful 15s somewhat limits your upgrade potential.

My top choices at $2500 would be
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-2400.html
and
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV25HP.html

Both companies offer subs in the $1800 range that would also perform well and leave room for a good upgrade-
paper cone version of http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV18.html
and
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-118ht.html

 

[shadyJ]

IMO based on the above statement go with the biggest, most powerful sub you can now and then get another down the road. Going with 12s or even some of the less powerful 15s somewhat limits your upgrade potential.

My top choices at $2500 would be
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-2400.html
and
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV25HP.html

Both companies offer subs in the $1800 range that would also perform well and leave room for a good upgrade-
paper cone version of http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV18.html
and
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-118ht.html

There are some definite caveats with these massive subs. First of all, they are very difficult to move around. You need furniture moving equipment along with a healthy buddy to move these things around. Those monster subs can't be moved by one person. Second, they pretty much need a dedicated power circuit, preferably a 20-amp circuit. Third, if you ever needed to resell them, they would be difficult to unload. Very few people want refrigerator-sized subs. Fourth, one or two big subs can not get you as flat of a response and 3 or four medium sized subs. More subs means a flatter response, and a flatter response means better sound quality.

The only advantage that huge subs have is they can be more easily tuned to very deep frequencies. But if you don't care about stuff below 16 Hz or so, there isn't any real reason to get them over multiple medium sized subs, at least in a typical domestic situation.

 

[3db]

There are some definite caveats with these massive subs. First of all, they are very difficult to move around. You need furniture moving equipment along with a healthy buddy to move these things around. Those monster subs can't be moved by one person. Second, they pretty much need a dedicated power circuit, preferably a 20-amp circuit. Third, if you ever needed to resell them, they would be difficult to unload. Very few people want refrigerator-sized subs. Fourth, one or two big subs can not get you as flat of a response and 3 or four medium sized subs. More subs means a flatter response, and a flatter response means better sound quality.

The only advantage that huge subs have is they can be more easily tuned to very deep frequencies. But if you don't care about stuff below 16 Hz or so, there isn't any real reason to get them over multiple medium sized subs, at least in a typical domestic situation.

Thats why I recommended the FV15HP sub which is NOT refrigirator sized nor does it require a 20 amp circuit.

 

[Heardtherewasfood]

Due to space constraints I can't go larger than 18" cabinets on video wall, however on back wall I'm not that restricted. Can you have different sizes of cones and different manufacturers? I think 15" cones is largest for front. But back wall 18" cones is intriguing.
However Shady our speaker of the house has some very valid points. Weight of subs is important cause it's just me and wifey and kids are far away. Went to college and never came back.
Thou does it make sense to have 15" cones up front and maybe a 18" single cone in back wall?
Thanks

 

[snakeeyes]

3 identical is easier. I like the 3 sub idea with HSU VTF3. Each are 17 1/4” wide.

@Pogre has 2 up front in his room. Maybe he can comment how much “chest slam” he is experiencing.

Maybe the third sub directly behind your couch would get you that nearfield effect.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html

 

[kini]

There are some definite caveats with these massive subs. First of all, they are very difficult to move around. You need furniture moving equipment along with a healthy buddy to move these things around. Those monster subs can't be moved by one person. Second, they pretty much need a dedicated power circuit, preferably a 20-amp circuit. Third, if you ever needed to resell them, they would be difficult to unload. Very few people want refrigerator-sized subs. Fourth, one or two big subs can not get you as flat of a response and 3 or four medium sized subs. More subs means a flatter response, and a flatter response means better sound quality.

The only advantage that huge subs have is they can be more easily tuned to very deep frequencies. But if you don't care about stuff below 16 Hz or so, there isn't any real reason to get them over multiple medium sized subs, at least in a typical domestic situation.

Size and weight are minor sticking points. Once placed they won't need to be moved or shouldn't. You don't need a dedicated circuit for each sub. Plenty of users are running duals off of on 20 amp breaker. They're not drawing anywhere near that much juice continuously.

Low frequency output is not the only advantage. As many who have gone to bigger deeper tuned subs will state there is a totally different "weight" to the bass at all frequencies. It would take 3 VTF3.5s place very close together to equal one of the two $2500 subs mentioned and then they still wouldn't have the low frequency output.

Of course there's trade offs with everything. But if you're going to do it, do it right the first time. Most end up wasting money in the long run and end up with the larger subs eventually.

 

[Heardtherewasfood]

Size and weight are minor sticking points. Once placed they won't need to be moved or shouldn't. You don't need a dedicated circuit for each sub. Plenty of users are running duals off of on 20 amp breaker. They're not drawing anywhere near that much juice continuously.

Low frequency output is not the only advantage. As many who have gone to bigger deeper tuned subs will state there is a totally different "weight" to the bass at all frequencies. It would take 3 VTF3.5s place very close together to equal one of the two $2500 subs mentioned and then they still wouldn't have the low frequency output.

Of course there's trade offs with everything. But if you're going to do it, do it right the first time. Most end up wasting money in the long run and end up with the larger subs eventually.

Again excellent points. As of size constraints I could move the Klipsch Chorus to back wall then move the rp8000 up front. As for weight issue well this must be why I 've been lifting weights all these years.
"Doing it right the first time " Truer words have never been spoken. Well it's starting to look like budget might get adjusted. Gonna have some splainin to wife to do.
Thanks Kini

 

[shadyJ]

Size and weight are minor sticking points. Once placed they won't need to be moved or shouldn't. You don't need a dedicated circuit for each sub. Plenty of users are running duals off of on 20 amp breaker. They're not drawing anywhere near that much juice continuously.

Low frequency output is not the only advantage. As many who have gone to bigger deeper tuned subs will state there is a totally different "weight" to the bass at all frequencies. It would take 3 VTF3.5s place very close together to equal one of the two $2500 subs mentioned and then they still wouldn't have the low frequency output.

Of course there's trade offs with everything. But if you're going to do it, do it right the first time. Most end up wasting money in the long run and end up with the larger subs eventually.

Unless the locations for the subs are predetermined without much wiggle room, I think that size/weight does make a difference, because in order to optimize performance, placement experimentation is absolutely necessary. That means moving the sub, a lot. And if you are throwing down around two to three thousand per sub, you are going to want to get the most out of them. Some of the subs you mentioned can not be lifted by a single person, period, not even if you are a body-builder.

As for running duals of these things off of a single 20-amp circuit, yes, that can be done, if you never take advantage of their headroom. But if that is the case, why get a monster sub? I have had a 1.5 kilowatt RMS sub dim my lights when they were one the same circuit as a light fixture. Peak power draw is already much higher than RMS power draw on these subs, at least twice as high.

As for three VTF-3 mk5s vs the $2500 subs you mentioned, it would not be a fair fight; the VTF-3 mk5s would have a major output advantage across the board at 20 Hz and above. One of the reasons for this is because size equals efficiency, and three VTF-3s do occupy a greater volumetric area. I don't know how much more most people would feel the need to upgrade, because three VTF-3s would probably give you 120dB+ in-room at 20 Hz and above.

 

[Pogre]

I gotta say I'm with Shady on this one. As much as the subs in the $2500 range make me drool I don't see one of them outperforming three VTF-3 MK5's if you take advantage of optimum placement.

 

[Heardtherewasfood]

Unless the locations for the subs are predetermined without much wiggle room, I think that size/weight does make a difference, because in order to optimize performance, placement experimentation is absolutely necessary. That means moving the sub, a lot. And if you are throwing down around two to three thousand per sub, you are going to want to get the most out of them. Some of the subs you mentioned can not be lifted by a single person, period, not even if you are a body-builder.

As for running duals of these things off of a single 20-amp circuit, yes, that can be done, if you never take advantage of their headroom. But if that is the case, why get a monster sub? I have had a 1.5 kilowatt RMS sub dim my lights when they were one the same circuit as a light fixture. Peak power draw is already much higher than RMS power draw on these subs, at least twice as high.

As for three VTF-3 mk5s vs the $2500 subs you mentioned, it would not be a fair fight; the VTF-3 mk5s would have a major output advantage across the board at 20 Hz and above. One of the reasons for this is because size equals efficiency, and three VTF-3s do occupy a greater volumetric area. I don't know how much more most people would feel the need to upgrade, because three VTF-3s would probably give you 120dB+ in-room at 20 Hz and above.[/QUOTE

 

[Heardtherewasfood]

Thanks everyone, your advice was deeply appreciated.
I pulled the trigger and went with a pair of
Monolith 15s
I owe all of you thank you!
I will post pics when it's all hooked up

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks everyone, your advice was deeply appreciated.
I pulled the trigger and went with a pair of
Monolith 15s
I owe all of you thank you!
I will post pics when it's all hooked up

Great subs! Make sure you have a friend handy to help move them when you receive them. They are 130 lbs. each. I would really be looking at a shoulder dolly system if you have to move them up or down some stairs.

 

[Heardtherewasfood]

Thanks that means a lot coming from the speaker of the house. In the end I kinda split the difference between the two schools of thought shown here. It’s a journey thou. In future I’ll add a back wall sub then it maybe time to go to a real pre/pro. And a couple years. A micro led when there ready.
Cheers