Let's talk modems & routers

[Swerd]

I've been going through the process of learning something about buying a new cable modem/router. I started knowing little to nothing a few hours ago. Now, I think I know what I should do. Since I retired, I had to become my own IT guy.

At present, I have an old modem (Arris TM822G) I rent from my cable provider, RCN – $11/month . That's going to end ASAP. I also have an old wireless router I bought at least 10 years ago, a Linksys WRT54G2 V1. My present cable service speed is 50/10 Mbps. I also have VoIP phone service through the Arris modem. I plan on dropping the VoIP phone service, and buying my own cable/modem.

All this older gear seems to work okay. My wife & I use two computers (one lap top for the usual email & internet browsing), two smart phones, and Netflix & Amazon Prime via Chromecast. We are not gamers.

RCN, my cable provider says, anything made by Arris or Motorola works for them. Other brands may or may not work depending on the model. They also recommend routers with at least 330 Mbps, DOCSIS 3.0 or 3.1, and at least 24 download channels. Their minimum requirements are 250 Mbps, DOCSIS 3.0, at least 8 download channels.

So I started searching for Arris or Motorola cable modem/routers. To get most of the recommended performance values, I'd have to spend $170 for a Motorola MG7700. That seems like a lot. For $160 I can get a Motorola MG7550, and for $130, I can get a Motorola MG7540. The differences between the MG7550 and MG7540 seem to be the routers are AC1900 vs. AC1600.

I'm worn out from learning about all the other technobabble, so I have to ask does AC1900 vs. AC1600 matter for me? I'd just as soon spend $130.

I almost hesitate to ask this, but is there anything else I should know that I'm ignorant of now?

 

[Irvrobinson]

I've been going through the process of learning something about buying a new cable modem/router. I started knowing little to nothing a few hours ago. Now, I think I know what I should do. Since I retired, I had to become my own IT guy.

At present, I have an old modem (Arris TM822G) I rent from my cable provider, RCN – $11/month . That's going to end ASAP. I also have an old wireless router I bought at least 10 years ago, a Linksys WRT54G2 V1. My present cable service speed is 50/10 Mbps. I also have VoIP phone service through the Arris modem. I plan on dropping the VoIP phone service, and buying my own cable/modem.

All this older gear seems to work okay. My wife & I use two computers (one lap top for the usual email & internet browsing),two smart phones, and Netflix & Amazon Prime via Chromecast. We are not gamers.

RCN, my cable provider says, anything made by Arris or Motorola works for them. Other brands may or may not work depending on the model. They also recommend routers with at least 330 Mbps, DOCSIS 3.0 or 3.1, and at least 24 download channels. Their minimum requirements are 250 Mbps, DOCSIS 3.0, at least 8 download channels.

So I started searching for Arris or Motorola cable modem/routers. To get most of the recommended performance values, I'd have to spend $170 for a Motorola MG7700. That seems like a lot. For $160 I can get a Motorola MG7550, and for $130, I can get a Motorola MG7540. The differences between the MG7550 and MG7540 seem to be the routers are AC1900 vs. AC1600.

I'm worn out from learning about all the other technobabble, so I have to ask does AC1900 vs. AC1600 matter for me? I'd just as soon spend $130.

I almost hesitate to ask this, but is there anything else I should know that I'm ignorant of now?

As with audio, I'm more of a fan of separates than I am all-in-ones, and mixing WIFI support with the cable modem is not a good idea, IMO. The positioning of a cable modem is seldom good for 5GHz Wifi transmission. As long as you're dropping voice, I'd go with a dedicated cable modem like:

https://www.amazon.com/MOTOROLA-MB7621-Approved-Spectrum-Downloads/dp/B077BL65HS/ref=pd_day0_hl_504_5/142-5477961-5588230?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B077BL65HS&pd_rd_r=d8d13c8c-704b-11e9-a9da-2171f603c15c&pd_rd_w=5wSJv&pd_rd_wg=zSlxc&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=VQP6C2F9GW4QQ880MS6H&psc=1&refRID=VQP6C2F9GW4QQ880MS6H

And depending on the size and lay-out of your home, consider using mesh technology for WiFi, like Google WiFi (there are other brands too). There's a night and day difference in 5GHz transmission quality for distances over 25 feet with intervening walls. Even if you don't need mesh support, dedicated WiFi Routers have superior transmission strength and better antennae.

Some questions:

1. What is the maximum distance from the modem to a WiFi connected device?
2. Is your home wired for Ethernet (like CAT5)?
3. Do you have devices more than 25 feet from the modem that need a high speed wireless connection (like a PC)?

 

[Swerd]

Thanks for the recommendation of the dedicated cable modem, Motorola MB7621 dedicated cable modem. At $78, it's cheap.

And depending on the size and lay-out of you home, consider using mesh technology for WiFi, like Google WiFi (there are other brands too). There's a night and day difference in 5GHz transmission quality for distances over 25 feet with intervening walls. Even if you don't need mesh support, dedicated WiFi Routers have superior transmission strength and better antennae.

What's mesh technology?

1. What is the maximum distance from the modem to a WiFi connected device?
2. Is your home wired for Ethernet (like CAT5)?
3. Do you have devices more than 25 feet from the modem that need a high speed wireless connection (like a PC)?

Answers:

1. My house is 2-story, 2700 ft² overall. That's ~1350 ft² per floor. 9 foot ceilings, wood frame, dry walls, poured concrete basement floors & walls. No major amounts of steel in the structure, other than a horizontal I beam & two support columns in the basement.
2. It's not wired for Ethernet.
3. I don't know the dimensions, but I doubt if anything is >25 feet away from the centrally located office where the modem and router are now located.

For what it's worth, I've never experienced WiFi reception trouble with my old router. I looked up a manual for the Linksys WRT54G2 V1. The specs are meaningless to me. Can you tell if I'd be okay just using this router with the new Motorola router you mentioned, instead of replacing it?

 

[Irvrobinson]

What's mesh technology?

One or more cooperating WiFi routers that communicate with each other to allow a WiFi device to connect to the closest one, getting the best signal strength, and the connection to the modem is made by one of the mesh enabled routers that's hardwired to the modem. You can use the first router as a standard single-instance device, and then when you want better connections in other rooms you add routers that communicate with the one near the modem. By strategically placing mesh-connected modems around the house you can have awesome 5GHz band connections everywhere.

Answers:

1. My house is 2-story, 2700 ft² overall. That's ~1350 ft² per floor. 9 foot ceilings, wood frame, dry walls, poured concrete basement floors & walls. No major amounts of steel in the structure, other than two basement support columns.
2. It's not wired for Ethernet.
3. I don't know the dimensions, but I doubt if anything is >25 feet away from the centrally located office where the modem and router are now located.

For what it's worth, I've never experienced WiFi reception trouble with my old router. I looked up a manual for the Linksys WRT54G2 V1. The specs are meaningless to me. Can you tell if I'd be okay just using this router with the new Motorola router you mentioned, instead of replacing it?

You're using ancient 2.4GHz Wifi technology with that old router, which goes through walls better than the 5GHz band. That's probably why you haven't had connection strength issues. If you only use WiFi for phones and tablets 2.4 GHz can be okay, but for PC/Mac browsing and multimedia, 5GHz is the way to go, and you'll likely see a visible difference.

My advice: upgrade that ancient WiFi router. Recommend starting with one $99 Google router, or a Netgear Nighthawk is cheap, powerful, and fast. Place the routers as high as possible, and you'll get the best signal strength. Don't hide them in a cabinet.

 

[snakeeyes]

I can try to breakdown some basic stuff but there’s a few things here. I’ll try to simplify rather than get technical.

Make sure the WiFi router can support dual band (both 2.4 and 5Ghz bands). The newer devices can do 5Ghz band and the older devices can run on 2.4Ghz.

Probably a router from 2015 or newer. You don’t want to be on a router or modem from 2010.

The size of the router is about the radius of the max signal. Of course walls and other things can affect the signal. Obviously you have an easy deal if all the devices are all near the router. It gets more difficult if the distance is pretty far away. The 2.4 band can get interference with other 2.4 band devices. But like I mentioned, only the newest devices can do 5Ghz band.

The goal on a 50Mbps Internet (for example) is to be able to get every bit of that signal to all the devices over WiFi (or better obviously). You test this by using an app in your laptop or phone to run a speed test. Test both bands (probably from your cell phone or laptop) at various spots in your home.

Some devices seem to need stronger signal to run Netflix. For example my Sony x700 runs Netflix fine in a spot of my house (very far away from the router) where my Apple 4K TV can’t. Both are 2018 devices.

If you can run devices directly to the router on cat5 cable, do so. Get the number of WiFi devices down to a reasonable number.

I would expect to pay $60 for modem and $100 for the router. Just guessing. Probably will be less.

 

[snakeeyes]

I like the Nighthawk routers too.

 

[Bryce_H]

I have two old cable modems that were rated up to 300mbps (I believe). Sorry for the font size. I second splitting the modem and router. I currently have an Orbi and really like it.

ARRIS SB6183 DOCSIS 3.0
Motorola SURFboard SB6121 4X4 DOCSIS 3.0 Cable Modem

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

As an IT guy by my trade for the last twenty years, I know at least 20 different ways to skin that particular cat.
However, since you're planning to drop the cable provided VoIP service, I'll try to advise on the simplest and most effective way to get it done.
a) Modem: 100% agree on the above mentioned Arris SB6183. It's cheap and it just works. Don't listen to your ISP saying that you need 24x8 for speed higher than 200. This isn't true. 16x4 Modem will support speed until a 683mbps. This is what I have on 200mbps cable connection, after going with a Motorola modem - it just wasn't reliable enough.
Don't buy it on eBay, refurbished or used. They are cheap and it would be more risk of buying it used.
b) Router/Wifi: Google Wifi 3x pack.

That's it.

 

[Swerd]

Thanks for all the input. I appreciate it . These are necessary things I don't really enjoy learning about.

So far, it looks like the Arris SB6183 modem ($69) Motorola MB7621 modem ($78) as others suggested, plus one of these WiFi dual band routers:

Google Router $99 purchased​

Netgear R6230 $60​

TP-Link AC1750 $65​

​

That's $138 to $177 – equal to 12 to 16 months rental of my old modem. I don't want to know how many years I've rented that damn thing from those thieves .

But – to be fair – that total would be small potatoes compared to how much I've overpaid for health insurance & prescription medicine. If cable providers are thieves, then health insurance & pharmaceutical companies are the big kahunas of organized crime. I'll save that rant for another time.

 

[Swerd]

@BoredSysAdmin

The Arris SB6183 on Amazon is $69 . With a $65 TP Link router, that is about the same as the Motorola MG7540 I mentioned in my OP. Thanks.

 

[Swerd]

If you can run devices directly to the router on cat5 cable, do so. Get the number of WiFi devices down to a reasonable number.

Now I keep the modem, router, and my desktop computer on a table in my office – all linked by cat 5 cable. And I plan on keeping it that way with the new gear, unless I'm forced to move the router to another location.

 

[rojo]

Hey @Swerd, I recommend against that TP-Link router. Most consumer-grade routers ship with bug-filled firmware, and I expect that TP-Link is no exception. See this post for a rant on the matter if you're bored.

BSA's recommendation of Google routers was a good one. I'm also fond of Asus routers. If you search eBay for "Asus TM-AC1900" you'll generally find them used for $60, new for $75, and the hardware is identical to the Asus RT-AC68U (currently $136 on Amazon). I've been running one for several years, got one for my parents, my in-laws, my grandparents-in-law, and am about to install another one for my wife's aunt. The hardware is rock solid reliable, they're compatible with many community-developed firmware projects (Merlin is very popular),and mine blankets my 2500+ sq. ft. 2-story house without much effort.

I've got a closet full of those Linksys WRT54G routers. They were great in their time, supported 3rd-party firmware and were very stable. The moment I upgraded to my Asus router though, my download speeds doubled. Enabling the "cut-through forwarding" feature (basically hardware acceleration of the network interface) gained me even more speed.

Also, if you're interested in finding a replacement for your VoIP service, I've had very good service from my Obihai OBi200 VoIP adapter. I don't bother subscribing to any 9-1-1 capable VoIP service, as there's usually a mobile phone lying around somewhere. The OBi200 lets you use Google Voice with no subscription on your home phones. It's free VoIP service for life (or at least for as long as Google continues to offer the service), just for the cost of the VoIP adapter. Newegg used to offer sales on the OBi200 for $35 or less, but I don't recall seeing any sales since Polycom bought Obihai.

 

[TLS Guy]

About 6 weeks ago I ditched the high end Linksys router, which we had to install open source software on. The native software was awful.

We now have this NetGear Mesh system. It is absolutely wonderful and trouble free. We get 250 to 260 mbps all over this 4,500 sq.ft home without issue. There are zero dead spots. This is absolutely the best Wi-fi system I have ever encountered and far surpasses anything else I know of. This is a no holes barred recommendation. It will be installed in our new home. You can be certain of that.

 

[j_garcia]

I have the Arris 6183 as well and I am very pleased. You DO want something along those lines even though it is faster than what you're current speed is. It won't speed you up, but it will ensure you get full speed always because it is capable of using multiple channels to always hit your max.

I also like the ASUS routers. I have an AC3200 tri-band (one 2.4G and TWO 5G) and I love it. I get signal 3 stories down in the garage

I have my router sitting next to me and I hard wire when I am working. Pretty much everything else is on wifi, which is why I went with the tri-band. More throughput and different bands for different devices. No issues with 3-4 devices going at once.

 

[Swerd]

Hey @Swerd, I recommend against that TP-Link router. Most consumer-grade routers ship with bug-filled firmware, and I expect that TP-Link is no exception. See this post for a rant on the matter if you're bored.

I just looked over the TP-Link customer reviews on Amazon. It's off my list. Does TP-Link stand for Toilet Paper-Link?

That $60 Netgear router is also off my list. I know all the usual caveats with reading Amazon customer reviews, but those were bad enough to reject those products without further thought.

I'm now considering the more expensive Google Mesh router.

We now have this NetGear Mesh system. It is absolutely wonderful and trouble free.

Will consider that too.

 

[Swerd]

It's late tonight, but right now I find myself wondering why I want to replace the old but reliable modem & router that have worked well for years . All because I wanted to stop renting the modem from RCN.

How's that phrase go… If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

At least the Arris 6183 seems reliable. But how can so many routers be such junk?

I also like the ASUS routers. I have an AC3200 tri-band (one 2.4G and TWO 5G) and I love it.

Tomorrow, I'll look into ASUS as well. Thanks.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Merlin specifically said that T-mobile version isn't supported. Literally saw it yesterday.
I was big fan of the asus stuff before, but Google wifi kills it if you have neighbors with wifi and few floors to cover.
I agree with you on toilet paper link and CrapGear.
Asus could be hit or miss, depending on few factors, but goggle wifi will absolutely be rock solid choice.

 

[rojo]

Merlin specifically said that T-mobile version isn't supported. Literally saw it yesterday.
I was big fan of the asus stuff before, but Google wifi kills it if you have neighbors with wifi and few floors to cover.
I agree with you on toilet paper link and CrapGear.
Asus could be hit or miss, depending on few factors, but goggle wifi will absolutely be rock solid choice.

Huh. Wonder why? I've never tried it personally. I flash every tm-ac1900 that comes through my house with Advanced Tomato. I do have to downgrade the bootloader in the process though.

 

[highfigh]

You're using ancient 2.4GHz Wifi technology with that old router, which goes through walls better than the 5GHz band. That's probably why you haven't had connection strength issues. If you only use WiFi for phones and tablets 2.4 GHz can be okay, but for PC/Mac browsing and multimedia, 5GHz is the way to go, and you'll likely see a visible difference.

My advice: upgrade that ancient WiFi router. Recommend starting with one $99 Google router, or a Netgear Nighthawk is cheap, powerful, and fast. Place the routers as high as possible, and you'll get the best signal strength. Don't hide them in a cabinet.

2.4GHz is ancient? If it works better than 5 Gig, it's still useful. What visible difference is likely from a 50Mbps ISP?

That router needs to go- it was old almost ten years ago.

And don't put the router in one corner of a basement/house and try to use it with the computers at the other end.

If only ISPs would teach their freaking installers how this works........

 

[highfigh]

Now I keep the modem, router, and my desktop computer on a table in my office – all linked by cat 5 cable. And I plan on keeping it that way with the new gear, unless I'm forced to move the router to another location.

Even if you need to move the router, wire as much as possible. I wire anything that doesn't move and only use WiFi for hand-helds and things that don't have an ethernet port. Remember- wired is for performance, WiFi is for convenience.

Network switches are a cheap way to expand the wired network but some don't play well with others, so watch out if you have a slow connection- I normally use TrendNet and Luxul switches but had a problem with a Luxul not working with a U-Verse gateway (ATT's word for modem/router)- the Luxul showed that it was connected and I could ping it, but it didn't allow connection to the internet.I connected the TrendNet and it was fine.

Whatever you're considering, ask about the WiFi speed when several devices are connected- some only support about 50Mbps, even though the wired speed can be well over 200Mbps. Spectrum's routers do that but the Eero equipment I have installed is much better.