The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[lovinthehd]

I see pictures of such speaker placement all the time in various groups/fora, especially when the electronics are given the prime real estate for some reason.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My Sony TA-E9000ES prepro is about 20 years old. So, recently I've been thinking about updating, wondering what would get the job done, separates or an AVR. I have not concluded anything yet but the Marantz TOTL preamp seems to have ALL the features I seek.

The time has come and you probably couldn't find a better time than right now to upgrade for Atmos and/or the upmixing capability of the new Dolby Surround (DSU) and DTS Neural:X, which aren't just for the ceiling Atmos speakers, but also for upmixing 2CH sources (TV and Movies).

If you want to keep it under $2K, then the Yamaha CX-A5200 is probably the best pre-pro. Gene can vouch for this.

If you want to keep it under $3K, then the Marantz AV8805 or Yamaha CX-A5200 are probably the best to get.

For $4K, probably the best is the upcoming Monolith HTP-1 (clone of the DataSAT LS10 and upcoming ATI ATP-16).

I'm curious to see how much ATI will sell the ATI ATP-16 for.

But definitely time to move on from the old Sony pre-pro.

BTW, the Sony 5000ES AVR is already $2,200 and the 3000ES is $1700. So forget that. Might as well get a Pre-pro for under $2K.

 

[Bucknekked]

The Sony A/V separates train left the station 20 years ago. To explain, Sony was a leading manufacture of A/V in the 90's. Their last separates offering was the TA-E9000ES 5.1 Digital Control Amplifier, made in 2000, or thereabouts. I still use one of those today for enjoyment of music and movies. It does not have 5.1 analog inputs, so, to enjoy 5.1 SACDs, I also purchased a Sony TA-P9000ES 5.1 Analog Preamplifier, which is connected to the TA-E9000ES in a manner which allows switching from one unit to the other into power amplification for all channels. I have been pleased with this system for about 20 years; but, I do miss what HDMI would bring to the table. Thus, I've been shopping, hoping Sony might come back into the market with an update of the TA-E9000ES with HDMI inputs. At any rate, since my system still works, I'm not pressed to buy a new prepro just for the HDMI function; but, the TOTL Marantz is very tempting for a host of compelling features in addition to HDMI. BTW, most every piece in my system is at least 20 years old except for an OPPO Player, TV, and a Technics TT. Here's a picture: View attachment 27969

Sterling
I love it when folks post pictures of their setups. Seeing what someone has installed in their room or home is worth more than a 1,000 words. Love your look. It does my heart good to see other peoples setups. thanks for sharing.

 

[Verdinut]

Sterling
I love it when folks post pictures of their setups. Seeing what someone has installed in their room or home is worth more than a 1,000 words. Love your look. It does my heart good to see other peoples setups. thanks for sharing.

Buck,

I didn't see posts from you for a long while in this forum last year. This is why I presume that you didn't see photos of my 7 channel system which I posted last year.
Here they are:

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/my-7-channel-system.111234/

Cheers,

 

[Bucknekked]

Buck,

I didn't see posts from you for a long while in this forum last year. This is why I presume that you didn't see photos of my 7 channel system which I posted last year.
Here they are:

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/my-7-channel-system.111234/

Cheers,

wow. I give you two big thumbs up for your room and your equipment layout.
I love the reel to reel tape deck. I have often thought I would like to put one in my room, working or not, just for the cool factor of having one in there. I don't have a stitch of music on RTR, but, the cool factor of having one sitting in my music room may be something I have to find a way to do.

Thanks for sharing. I love looking at how the other half lives.

Terry

 

[David Harper]

I know it's best to have the speakers well away from walls behind them but in the real world most of us cannot have them out in the middle of the room. So since mine are less than a foot from the wall behind, should I put some type of sound absorbing panel behind them (on the wall)? My speakers are Polk Rtia5. They have rear firing ports on the back. If I should, what would be a good material to put behind them? Maybe hang rugs?

 

[everettT]

I know it's best to have the speakers well away from walls behind them but in the real world most of us cannot have them out in the middle of the room. So since mine are less than a foot from the wall behind, should I put some type of sound absorbing panel behind them (on the wall)? My speakers are Polk Rtia5. They have rear firing ports on the back. If I should, what would be a good material to put behind them? Maybe hang rugs?

Wont make a difference. Some speakers with rear ports can go close to walls like some transmission lines. I'd pull them out and listen to see if you can tell a difference.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wont make a difference. Some speakers with rear ports can go close to walls like some transmission lines. I'd pull them out an listen to see if you can tell a difference.

I think that’s the key. If you don’t hear any improvement, then it is all good.

 

[Mikado463]

I know it's best to have the speakers well away from walls behind them but in the real world most of us cannot have them out in the middle of the room. So since mine are less than a foot from the wall behind, should I put some type of sound absorbing panel behind them (on the wall)? My speakers are Polk Rtia5. They have rear firing ports on the back. If I should, what would be a good material to put behind them? Maybe hang rugs?

David I understand your situation so maximize what you can away from the wall and be sure not to have gear in front of and between the speakers. That will hurt your soundstage.

 

[RichB]

I know it's best to have the speakers well away from walls behind them but in the real world most of us cannot have them out in the middle of the room. So since mine are less than a foot from the wall behind, should I put some type of sound absorbing panel behind them (on the wall)? My speakers are Polk Rtia5. They have rear firing ports on the back. If I should, what would be a good material to put behind them? Maybe hang rugs?

If you want to know for sure, get a calibrated mic and REW and measure it at your listening position.

- Rich

 

[walter duque]

I think we can all understand the rationale of owning pre-pro + amp.

But is Sound Quality your salient reason?

Or is the main reason (s) other than Sound Quality?

Do you think your Marantz pre-pro sound better than a comparable-priced Marantz AVR used solely as a pre-pro?

Do you think a $4,000 Marantz AV8802 Pre-pro unequivocally sound better than a $3,000 Marantz SR8012 AVR using the same current-dumping amps?

Not all pre-pros sound the same, so I am not sure of the quality of processors in AVR's, haven't used one for over 25 years. My equipment is old, but I am an analog man anyway, don't care for most formats (most sound to fudged for me, it's just 1 channel bleeding into another) I do digital also. In the little system I use in my upstairs living room I use 3k towers- lexicon mc8 processor-class A/B amp 200x2 and the first oppo 83. Lexicon makes my speakers sound like $300.00 speakers<> switch it out with the Krell and my speakers sound like 10k speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not all pre-pros sound the same, so I am not sure of the quality of processors in AVR's, haven't used one for over 25 years. My equipment is old, but I am an analog man anyway, don't care for most formats (most sound to fudged for me, it's just 1 channel bleeding into another) I do digital also. In the little system I use in my upstairs living room I use 3k towers- lexicon mc8 processor-class A/B amp 200x2 and the first oppo 83. Lexicon makes my speakers sound like $300.00 speakers<> switch it out with the Krell and my speakers sound like 10k speakers.

The Lexicon pre-pro in bypass mode or using some form of EQ?

 

[VonMagnum]

Yes. Both Music and Movies. Same results. Everything above bass frequencies are the same as Pure Direct. But bass is dramatically more impactful and dynamic with Dynamic EQ.

I must listen at loud levels since I don't hear a big difference at near reference volume (typically have volume at -8 to -4 range for movies and -10 for "most" music (it varies more in average level). Dynamic EQ does seem to help at lower volumes (a bit like the old 'loudness' buttons.

 

[lovinthehd]

I must listen at loud levels since I don't hear a big difference at near reference volume (typically have volume at -8 to -4 range for movies and -10 for "most" music (it varies more in average level). Dynamic EQ does seem to help at lower volumes (a bit like the old 'loudness' buttons.

The closer to reference volume the less DEQ does...with some ability to adjust via reference level offset.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I must listen at loud levels since I don't hear a big difference at near reference volume (typically have volume at -8 to -4 range for movies and -10 for "most" music (it varies more in average level). Dynamic EQ does seem to help at lower volumes (a bit like the old 'loudness' buttons.

You're right. I think DEQ only boosts the heck out of the bass when the master volume is lower than -10.0. At high volume, it doesn't seem to boost the bass.

But when it's doing something, all it's really doing is boosting the heck out of the bass and boosting the treble a little bit.

Right now I'm using PEQ to boost the bass 20-80Hz for all volumes. Haha.

 

[VonMagnum]

What frustrates me about AVRs these days is the lack of a tape loop like feature to export the sound, modify it and move it back in before the amp stage. An example would be an active crossover. What good is bi-amp on an AVR with no way to go active? It's pointless.. Maybe I like Sonic Holography or SBS for two channel music or want to use a Mini-DSP for Dirac or some EQ use. No simple way to insert a processor without to buy external amps. It's ridiculous in a way. I'd take a tape loop over basic 7-ch inputs any day of the week.

With separates, you're doing that anyway so it's simple. The problem is you should get a price break for having no amps, but you don't anymore for the same reason a stick shift typically costs more now than an automatic...because they can. Supply and demand.

 

[Grandzoltar]

I have been thinking about adding external amplification to my front right and left for 2.1 listening purposes and freeing up the load when watching movies. I watch movies in 5.1.2. Would an external amp interfere with timbre matching and sq of the LCR? Or should I look into 3 channel amplification to keep the synergy?

 

[Grandzoltar]

Equipment:
Denon- x3400
Monitor audio- Bronze 6 150w rms
-Bronze center 120w rms
-Bronze 1 75w rms
-Bronze 2 100w rms

 

[Grandzoltar]

Suggestions on external amp as well

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You're right. I think DEQ only boosts the heck out of the bass when the master volume is lower than -10.0. At high volume, it doesn't seem to boost the bass.

But when it's doing something, all it's really doing is boosting the heck out of the bass and boosting the treble a little bit.

Right now I'm using PEQ to boost the bass 20-80Hz for all volumes. Haha.

You are also right. Looks kinda like this.