Curious about power amp + surround sound processor vs avreceiver.

[rekh127]

I'm thinking about downsizing to a 5.1system instead of the 7.1.4 I have now, but moving towards a power amp and surround sound processor set up. I'm more into music and art films than the big budget things that get the best atmos tracks. So more interested in crisp, quality sound on the mains than the effects of atmos. Has any used a power amp +surround sound pre to compare?

 

[ryanosaur]

What do you have now (AVR, Speakers and Sub, and Amp)? And can you explain a little better about what you mean by getting more crisp, quality sound, please? Also give us some of the details about your room size/volume, and your listening distance, please

It's generally accepted that amps don't change the sound... speakers do.

I don't want to speculate on what might be happening in your situation, but give us a little more info, and I'm certain you'll get some solid advice!

Cheers!

 

[lovinthehd]

Haven't used a multi-ch pre-pro with power amps (yet perhaps). I use avrs on their own but have also done so with external amps, although not currently. I've also got a couple 2ch rigs with pre-amps and power amps (back in the day we eschewed even having a radio tuner in the pre ). I don't find the sq differences among them remarkable as long as they're all good quality and not overdriven. Electronics aren't where I find the sq differences, that's more about the speakers and the room.

One advantage the pre-pro supposedly has is separating the amps into another box, less "noisy" environment is what many claim although that hasn't been an audible issue for me. Separating the amp heat source from the pre-pro might be an advantage, and perhaps having separate power supplies, though. Flexibility to upgrade pre-pro as new audio codecs or video requirements come out may be an advantage for a pre-pro, too, except that they tend to cost quite a bit up front due to the relative few numbers sold compared to an avr. If you buy sufficient amplification up front you likely wouldn't need to upgrade the amps for a very long time, though.

YMMV

 

[KEW]

I agree with the previous comments.
Don't expect any profound difference, but there is certainly potential for different pre-pro settings to sound different.
I would say that the Outlaw 975 preprocessor sounds like what you are looking for:
https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/975.html

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/outlaw-model-975-surround-processor

The 975 bundled with the 5000 5 channel amp is probably the best value you will find for $1000. These units are made by the same vendor Parasound uses that makes gear for NAD and Harman among others*.

* correction thanks to M Code, see post #6!

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd agree that 975/5000 combo from Outlaw might be a great way for you to go. Just keep in mind the limitations....

ps But limited availability I'd think as they've now come out with their 976 pre-pro at $1000 alone.

 

[M Code]

I agree with the previous comments.
Don't expect any profound difference, but there is certainly potential for different pre-pro settings to sound different.
I would say that the Outlaw 975 preprocessor sounds like what you are looking for:
https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/975.html

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/outlaw-model-975-surround-processor

The 975 bundled with the 5000 5 channel amp is probably the best value you will find for $1000. These units are made by the same vendor Parasound uses..

The 975 & 5000 are built in mainland China (Nanjing), same factory that builds alot of OE products for NAD, Harman, Bose, Russound.. The Parasound products are mainly built in Taiwan.. Two totally separate vendors..
The Taiwan vendor builds alot of amplifiers for multi-room use for brands such as Niles, SpeakerCraft, Sonance, DaVinchi..

Just my $0.02...

 

[KEW]

The 975 & 5000 are built in mainland China (Nanjing), same factory that builds alot of OE products for NAD, Harman, Bose, Russound.. The Parasound products are mainly built in Taiwan.. Two totally separate vendors..
The Taiwan vendor builds alot of amplifiers for multi-room use for brands such as Niles, SpeakerCraft, Sonance, DaVinchi..

Just my $0.02...

Thanks for the correction!

I thought it was you that stated that much of the Outlaw gear (aside from the ATI made units) was made a facillity that made Parasound. Was that only the Outlaw 2200?

I want to understand how I misinterpreted so I don't spread misinformation.
Thanks!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So more interested in crisp, quality sound on the mains than the effects of atmos.

Why not have both - crisp quality sound on mains AND cool Atmos effects?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As for AVR vs Separates, there are many threads asking the same question. Here is one:

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-separates-vs-avr-thread.110901/

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

IMO, there is nothing wrong with using AVR w/ or w/o external amps.

IMO, cheap pre-pros and cheap amps will not be better than good mid-priced AVRs.

IMO, if you want to venture into Separates Pre-pros, spend the money on something like the Yamaha CX-A5200 ($2700 MSRP, less street prices), Marantz AV8805 ($4500 MSRP, less street prices), or Monolith HTP-1 ($4,000) or higher. Otherwise, stick to AVRs.

Man, I sound stuck up, don't I?

 

[PENG]

I have had the following combinations over the years:

- 2 Channel Separate tuner, preamps, power amps.
- Integrated amps.
- 7.1 AVR+preamp (HT bypass)+Power amp(s).
- 7.1/7.1.4 AVP+power amp(s).
- 2 channel Preamp+Power amp

As HD said, as long as the components are of "good" quality, they are all good. After trying such different combinations, and listening to many in dealers show rooms, I found the most critical part of the audio chain is the source, followed by the speakers, assuming the media player, AVP, AVR, Preamp, power amp, integrated amp are of good quality and are operating well below their clipping point at any time. If operating close to their clipping point, then even good quality avp, avr, integrated, preamp/power amp could make a difference that may be audible.

 

[M Code]

Thanks for the correction!

I thought it was you that stated that much of the Outlaw gear (aside from the ATI made units) was made a facillity that made Parasound. Was that only the Outlaw 2200?

I want to understand how I misinterpreted so I don't spread misinformation.
Thanks!

Don't know about all of Outlaws products, as they have shifted around... But the 2200 was built in Taiwan by the factory that builds the majority of Parasound products. Note that Taiwan factory's major products are amplifiers both component and multi-channel/distribution types.. Designing & building & validating a preamp/controller/surround processor is significantly more challenging than a power amplifier requiring expertise in software, video and connectivity..

Just my $0.02...

 

[rekh127]

Does anyone have experience with Emotiva? It looks like they have one of the few midrage 4k capable surround sound processors. https://emotiva.com/collections/7-1-channel-4k-hdr-surround-sound-processor

 

[rekh127]

Why not have both - crisp quality sound on mains AND cool Atmos effects?

priorities and simplifying . I'm selling my atmos speakers because they rarely get used for anything I go wow with, and I don't know that I'll have a good place for them next time I move anyways. Probably get some stereo gear with the cash. But might also sell the 11 channel AVR and have a chance to more interesting equipment downstairs for what I do like.

 

[rekh127]

IMO, there is nothing wrong with using AVR w/ or w/o external amps.

IMO, cheap pre-pros and cheap amps will not be better than good mid-priced AVRs.

IMO, if you want to venture into Separates Pre-pros, spend the money on something like the Yamaha CX-A5200 ($2700 MSRP, less street prices), Marantz AV8805 ($4500 MSRP, less street prices), or Monolith HTP-1 ($4,000) or higher. Otherwise, stick to AVRs.

Man, I sound stuck up, don't I?

.

I'm not really looking for 11 much less 13 or 16 channels is the only thing that would pull be back from there.

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree with the previous comments.
Don't expect any profound difference, but there is certainly potential for different pre-pro settings to sound different.
I would say that the Outlaw 975 preprocessor sounds like what you are looking for:
https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/975.html

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/outlaw-model-975-surround-processor

The 975 bundled with the 5000 5 channel amp is probably the best value you will find for $1000. These units are made by the same vendor Parasound uses..

I was not aware of that unit, or the 976. It seems a very sensible unit. The biggest limitation is only 4 HDMI inputs. Having to add a switcher is somewhat inconvenient.
I think it should have HD radio. In the age of LED light bulbs, analog FM is no longer very useful. However this unit is stripped of bloat and a move in the right direction.

 

[KEW]

I'd agree that 975/5000 combo from Outlaw might be a great way for you to go. Just keep in mind the limitations....

ps But limited availability I'd think as they've now come out with their 976 pre-pro at $1000 alone.

I'm not convinced that the 975 is really being replaced by the 976. They are different beasts, and I think the demand for a simple, inexpensive 5 channel Pre-pro is not a fad that will pass too quickly among those who want separates!
The 975/5000 combo was being sold for $800 during their Black Friday sale (which lasted for over a week) and now they are back at the regular price (separately $550 for 975 and $650 for 5000 or $1000 for combo) - not the way a closeout item is normally treated!

But maybe @Matthew J Poes has some idea (or can find out) how long Outlaw anticipates keeping the 975 in circulation.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I use an Outlaw 975 as a pre-pro. While seriously cheap it does have some limitations:

1. No 4K support. Not a problem if 1080 is all you need.
2. The 4 HDMI inputs Mark mentioned. I have a pretty simple system, and I use them all.
3. I've had an issue with sufficient output voltage to drive my ATI AT602 amp. When I was using insensitive JBL monitors it was unacceptable. With the more sensitive Klipsch towers I use now it is acceptable, but no more than that.
4. The volume control is somewhat annoying. If you only use the remote, like I do, it's not an issue.

While the 975 is cheap, I think it is an example of getting what you pay for.

 

[KEW]

I use an Outlaw 975 as a pre-pro. While seriously cheap it does have some limitations:

1. No 4K support. Not a problem if 1080 is all you need.
2. The 4 HDMI inputs Mark mentioned. I have a pretty simple system, and I use them all.
3. I've had an issue with sufficient output voltage to drive my ATI AT602 amp. When I was using insensitive JBL monitors it was unacceptable. With the more sensitive Klipsch towers I use now it is acceptable, but no more than that.
4. The volume control is somewhat annoying. If you only use the remote, like I do, it's not an issue.

While the 975 is cheap, I think it is an example of getting what you pay for.

Item #3 is truly disappointing!

Could you elaborate on item #4? What makes the volume control awkward for (non-remote control) use?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Item #3 is truly disappointing!

Could you elaborate on item #4? What makes the volume control awkward for (non-remote control) use?

I agree that insufficient output voltage is really disappointing. I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with Outlaw when I got the unit, and they had me alter some settings that helped a little bit, but the combination of the Sony BD player I use, the 975, the AT602, and the JBL monitors was never satisfactory.

The volume control knob is rather short, so there's not much to grab on to, and it has considerable friction in operation.