Not getting optimal sound from laptop via HDMI

[PENG]

Hello PENG.

I agree that it must be something wrong with the (one) computer side of things. On both computers I tried I was using the Tidal desktop application. I just switched the cables from one computer to the other and indeed the cheaper computer sounded good while the other one didn't (all variables the same - same cables, inputs, application for source, etc.) so it must indeed be something specific wrong with the first computer.

I'll be trying to troubleshoot that computer more over the weekend and will report back whatever I find.

Thank you for your input!!

I am not familiar with Tidal. Have you tried using iTune, Windows Media players, Foobar etc.?

 

[PENG]

I was therefore figuring that using the HDMI cable was bypassing the computer motherboard's sound card and that it instead was sending a digital signal (zeros and ones) to the AVR for the AVR to do the digital to analog conversion. The AVR's DAC seems to be plenty good to me as it would seem that is what it is doing when I'm streaming from HEOS. However, not so when I have it connected to the computer via HDMI.

You are on the right track in terms of using HDMI to benefit from the AVR's internal DA conversion using the excellent AK4458 DAC. For the X3400H, if you stream or using the front USB, it may not be using the AK4458 but the lower grade PCM5100 DAC chip, so in theory HDMI should give you the best sound quality, though many people believe the DAC chips in AVRs are likely not the bottleneck.

 

[highfigh]

Just today I came across an app that does allow me to stream my Tidal from my desktop to the AVR via HEOS, and it is indeed very nice for that specific use. LINK

I was originally (and still will ultimately) be looking for a solution for me to be able to send good quality audio from my PC to the AVR for all audio, not just via HEOS. i.e. I would like all sounds to go from my computer to the AVR. This would be for Tidal, Netflix, YouTube or any other audio that I'd be dealing with on my computer. As far as I know (not an expert so please advise if I am incorrect in this), HEOS would not work for Netflix/YouTube/Windows Audio/Audio from various websites, etc.

Again, I'm not sure but I think DLNA would be more if one had a library of music (which I don't).

I'm not familar with Airplay. I thought it was just for Apple, but in my quick look since your post I see that it is not limited to just Apple anymore. I'll have to see if it would be applicable.

I do like the idea of not needing to deal with cables at all, and do find the quality very good by not dealing with cables. For now, being able to use the app linked above to stream my Tidal music via HEOS from my PC is a big advantage and will do me while I figure out how best to get the rest of audio (Netflix, YouTube, sound from general websites, etc.) to also come through to the computer in a good quality.

Thank you for your suggestions. I'll look into Airplay and see if that would do what I need. Please do advise if I working with incorrect understanding of the possibilities above.

Best Regards.

HEOS does Tidal without using a computer.

 

[snakeeyes]

Very curious on your impressions of the 3020i speakers. Do you think they are an upgrade to the 3020?

 

[DamienS]

I haven't abandoned this thread and will respond to others than have been kind to provide their input to date. I have refrained from responding to others as I have not had the opportunity to troubleshoot as I had hoped to. I will reply to others when I have gone through the other troubleshooting I had previously mentioned.

As to your specific question....

I personally can't speak as to the improvement from the older version as I have not heard the older version (3020). This video gives a brief overview on some of the differences that would be more informative. They indicate that it is significant. LINK

What I can say is that in many respects I am delighted with the 3020i speakers. They are my first decent speakers and TBH I can't believe I've been missing out on so much all these years.

There are times when I'm in the 'sweet spot' where it honestly doesn't sound like there's anything coming directly from the speakers, rather it's coming from a wall of sound in front of me. Cowboy Junkies sound amazing.

The one 'negative' is that I find I do have to have the volume up a bit for them to 'really kick in'. I'm not sure what other speakers would do this better or to what extent, but it would nice if it could. They sound great when listening at decent volume but are not as impressive when listening to them at a 'background' level of music. Not to say that they sound bad at the lower volume, but there is a 'wow' factor that kicks in at the higher volume.

Oftentimes I work at my computer and have music in the background. In this scenerio I can't have the volume so loud as to distract from work and at this lower volume the magic doesn't quite kick in. However when I'm listening to music specifically, at a decent volume, they are great.

I am half playing around with the idea of looking for speaker that (a) would have the wow factor at lower volumes (if such a request if feasible) and (b) possibly with a lower frequency (rather than going with a separate sub which is something I've been mulling over). From what I've read, the 3020i speakers are considered excellent for their price range and as mentioned above, they have opened up a new world for me. It's just that after becoming aware of such a difference, it gets me to wondering how much more of an improvement I might get with upgrading to address 'issues' (a) & (b) above. I've been playing around with the idea of upgrading to the Monitor Audio Silver 100 bookshelves...

If you do get them, I would be curious as to how you find them in comparison to the 3020 speakers, since you would have had experience with both.

Sorry I can't be of much help .

 

[lovinthehd]

Hard to know what you mean by higher volumes "kick in" something. Many folks make similar statements like they don't feel their speakers "open up" without significant power (volume). Might be part of the frequency spectrum you prefer or that your speakers accentuate or your room's influence....or even lack of a sub to help the speakers out.

 

[snakeeyes]

I haven't abandoned this thread and will respond to others than have been kind to provide their input to date. I have refrained from responding to others as I have not had the opportunity to troubleshoot as I had hoped to. I will reply to others when I have gone through the other troubleshooting I had previously mentioned.

As to your specific question....

I personally can't speak as to the improvement from the older version as I have not heard the older version (3020). This video gives a brief overview on some of the differences that would be more informative. They indicate that it is significant. LINK

What I can say is that in many respects I am delighted with the 3020i speakers. They are my first decent speakers and TBH I can't believe I've been missing out on so much all these years.

There are times when I'm in the 'sweet spot' where it honestly doesn't sound like there's anything coming directly from the speakers, rather it's coming from a wall of sound in front of me. Cowboy Junkies sound amazing.

The one 'negative' is that I find I do have to have the volume up a bit for them to 'really kick in'. I'm not sure what other speakers would do this better or to what extent, but it would nice if it could. They sound great when listening at decent volume but are not as impressive when listening to them at a 'background' level of music. Not to say that they sound bad at the lower volume, but there is a 'wow' factor that kicks in at the higher volume.

Oftentimes I work at my computer and have music in the background. In this scenerio I can't have the volume so loud as to distract from work and at this lower volume the magic doesn't quite kick in. However when I'm listening to music specifically, at a decent volume, they are great.

I am half playing around with the idea of looking for speaker that (a) would have the wow factor at lower volumes (if such a request if feasible) and (b) possibly with a lower frequency (rather than going with a separate sub which is something I've been mulling over). From what I've read, the 3020i speakers are considered excellent for their price range and as mentioned above, they have opened up a new world for me. It's just that after becoming aware of such a difference, it gets me to wondering how much more of an improvement I might get with upgrading to address 'issues' (a) & (b) above. I've been playing around with the idea of upgrading to the Monitor Audio Silver 100 bookshelves...

If you do get them, I would be curious as to how you find them in comparison to the 3020 speakers, since you would have had experience with both.

Sorry I can't be of much help .

Well I definitely prefer my Canton Vento 820.2 in my other room, but my living room was setup more budget friendly.

 

[DamienS]

Well I definitely prefer my Canton Vento 820.2 in my other room, but my living room was setup more budget friendly.

Those Canton Vento 820.2 seem really nice from the bit of research I've just done. They seem to have a really good range of frequency. I am seeing some conflicting information regarding the lower end of their range. Some sites seem to be saying from 27Hz to 40,000Hz, while others are referencing 32Hz to 40,000Hz. Would seem that at 27Hz you would really need a sub. Would you agree? How do you find these at lower volumes compared to say the 3020s? Do you think there very obvious improvement of the 3020is? There seems to be some of these at reasonable prices on these used in Germany. I'm tempted

 

[DamienS]

Hard to know what you mean by higher volumes "kick in" something. Many folks make similar statements like they don't feel their speakers "open up" without significant power (volume). Might be part of the frequency spectrum you prefer or that your speakers accentuate or your room's influence....or even lack of a sub to help the speakers out.

I'm not sure exactly what it is that causes me feel that they are so different at the moderate volume compared to lower. I was figuring that it was something to do with the way that the speaker might have needed a certain amount of power (volume) to have the drivers/woofers move enough to create the feeling of space/definition/depth.
I found out about a store a couple of hours drive from me that seems to have a good collection of speakers so sometime in the not too distant future I'll plan to get there and check some of them out as to date I've haven't heard many speakers to be able to make informed decision/opinions and instead been overly reliant on online reviews/descriptions, etc.

 

[snakeeyes]

Those Canton Vento 820.2 seem really nice from the bit of research I've just done. They seem to have a really good range of frequency. I am seeing some conflicting information regarding the lower end of their range. Some sites seem to be saying from 27Hz to 40,000Hz, while others are referencing 32Hz to 40,000Hz. Would seem that at 27Hz you would really need a sub. Would you agree? How do you find these at lower volumes compared to say the 3020s? Do you think there very obvious improvement of the 3020is? There seems to be some of these at reasonable prices on these used in Germany. I'm tempted

I do actually use a sealed sub with the Vento with an 80hz crossover but I like a lot of bass and all my rooms have subs.

If I was to guess these might do 45hz or a little better. They have 6in drivers with ported cabinets. They have zero chance of 32hz based on size.

I would say the Ventos are many times better than the 3020. I’m sure they are likely a lot better than the 3020i as well.

I was just thinking with my 3020, I could swap to same color 3020i without the long haired boss noticing...

 

[DamienS]

I do actually use a sealed sub with the Vento with an 80hz crossover but I like a lot of bass and all my rooms have subs.

If I was to guess these might do 45hz or a little better. They have 6in drivers with ported cabinets. They have zero chance of 32hz based on size.

I would say the Ventos are many times better than the 3020. I’m sure they are likely a lot better than the 3020i as well.

I was just thinking with my 3020, I could swap to same color 3020i without the long haired boss noticing...

LMAO regarding the long haired boss

Thanks for the info regarding the Ventos and the interaction with the bass. I have some homework to do.

Best Regards!

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm not sure exactly what it is that causes me feel that they are so different at the moderate volume compared to lower. I was figuring that it was something to do with the way that the speaker might have needed a certain amount of power (volume) to have the drivers/woofers move enough to create the feeling of space/definition/depth.
I found out about a store a couple of hours drive from me that seems to have a good collection of speakers so sometime in the not too distant future I'll plan to get there and check some of them out as to date I've haven't heard many speakers to be able to make informed decision/opinions and instead been overly reliant on online reviews/descriptions, etc.

It's probably just volume differences overall. Maybe your expectations based on excessive reading of reviews (something I find generally useless as far as speakers go, altho I do note user experiences rather than paid reviews. Do you use DynamicEQ to help out at lower volumes?

 

[highfigh]

I'm not sure exactly what it is that causes me feel that they are so different at the moderate volume compared to lower. I was figuring that it was something to do with the way that the speaker might have needed a certain amount of power (volume) to have the drivers/woofers move enough to create the feeling of space/definition/depth.
I found out about a store a couple of hours drive from me that seems to have a good collection of speakers so sometime in the not too distant future I'll plan to get there and check some of them out as to date I've haven't heard many speakers to be able to make informed decision/opinions and instead been overly reliant on online reviews/descriptions, etc.

When the sound is quieter, anything reflecting from walls, floor and ceiling is mostly masked by the direct sound and when the volume is higher, it can be more audible- that can manifest itself as sounding wider, higher, deeper and you may hear things coming from places where you don't have speakers. It's an acoustical thing, which can be more or less noticeable, depending on the dispersion of the speakers and/or their toe-in angle.

 

[DamienS]

It's probably just volume differences overall. Maybe your expectations based on excessive reading of reviews (something I find generally useless as far as speakers go, altho I do note user experiences rather than paid reviews. Do you use DynamicEQ to help out at lower volumes?

I do take pad reviews with a grain of salt and look for some sort of consistency between them and user comments/thoughts when research, be it with speakers or anything else on the internet .

I haven't been using DynamicEQ. Might be something for me to look into. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[DamienS]

When the sound is quieter, anything reflecting from walls, floor and ceiling is mostly masked by the direct sound and when the volume is higher, it can be more audible- that can manifest itself as sounding wider, higher, deeper and you may hear things coming from places where you don't have speakers. It's an acoustical thing, which can be more or less noticeable, depending on the dispersion of the speakers and/or their toe-in angle.

Yes, could well be part of it. It does seem that part of what helps at the higher volume is that there are subtle vibrations that help provide a 'feel' rather than just something that the ears are experiencing.
It seems to be a complex topic and of quite a bit of debate. I was reading this thread LINK which was addressing the topic also.
I'm pretty restricted with speaker placement due to the fact that I'm using them for speakers when using my computer (so they are slightly ahead of me and to the left and right of my multiple screen (which dictate speaker location...).
Thank you for your response!

 

[lovinthehd]

I do take pad reviews with a grain of salt and look for some sort of consistency between them and user comments/thoughts when research, be it with speakers or anything else on the internet .

I haven't been using DynamicEQ. Might be something for me to look into. Thanks for the suggestion!

It might help out. If using with other than movies you might want to adjust it using the Reference Level Offset. https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

 

[Matthew J Poes]

It's probably just volume differences overall. Maybe your expectations based on excessive reading of reviews (something I find generally useless as far as speakers go, altho I do note user experiences rather than paid reviews. Do you use DynamicEQ to help out at lower volumes?

Hey what’s so wrong with paid reveiws. We weren’t paid to give good reviews!

Something to keep in mind is that professional reviewers have access to far more speakers and often a better grasp of the market. It’s a byproduct of having that access. Plus we don’t become reviewers by chance, usually we know a bit more about the topic or have some important experiences.

I’m not saying all paid reviews are good, many are crap, but some are good. Especially those with measurements.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

So I may have missed if this was fixed, but did you ever figure out if any dsp was being applied in the laptop settings?

I have an HP with B&O sound. B&O should be ashamed of themselves for putting their name on this. Especially since part of the problem is that they include some baked in sound enhancing software that applies eq to the output. A big problem for my measurements as it corrupts them.

While one fix is to turn it off, many of these softwares are hard to use and it’s never clear if it is totally off or not. The easy guarantee is to use ASIO4ALL with software that can make use of that. I’m fairly sure that Tidal can, I think I’ve done that before. That driver allows you to bypass any internal processing and send a totally clean signal to the receiver. It’s also the best to use if you ever get into measurement and use REW.

 

[DamienS]

Hey what’s so wrong with paid reveiws. We weren’t paid to give good reviews!

Something to keep in mind is that professional reviewers have access to far more speakers and often a better grasp of the market. It’s a byproduct of having that access. Plus we don’t become reviewers by chance, usually we know a bit more about the topic or have some important experiences.

I’m not saying all paid reviews are good, many are crap, but some are good. Especially those with measurements.

No offense intended Matthew. For my part, it was a comment about internet reviews in general. I guess I left it a bit too general .

Definitely the source of the review has to be taken into account when reading them. Like you said, those with measurement help immensely and I find it useful when there is comment section such that BS can be called when warranted or for users to mention an item that was maybe missed in the review.

Given that my location is such that it is not feasible for me to sample in person all the varying manufacturers of products (speakers or computer tech products, etc.), I do rely a extensively on reviews and good ones are invaluable. Some however are little more than sales pitches. The source is key.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hey what’s so wrong with paid reveiws. We weren’t paid to give good reviews!

Something to keep in mind is that professional reviewers have access to far more speakers and often a better grasp of the market. It’s a byproduct of having that access. Plus we don’t become reviewers by chance, usually we know a bit more about the topic or have some important experiences.

I’m not saying all paid reviews are good, many are crap, but some are good. Especially those with measurements.

Some are okay, but many are paid to give good reviews. I don't bother unless they have measurements generally. You might be okay