4 uls-15 mk2’s vs 4 pb-2000’s

[shadyJ]

Here's my thought on this:
We are "audioholics", we're generally always going to encourage you to go for the best!
However, unless I'm misremembering, you said you were not a bass head, and 4 Hsu (or equal) ported 12" subs (or 4 sealed 15" subs, which is what I have) is a lot of low frequency energy to pump into any residential room. Of course, there is more/better to be had from a no-compromise perspective, but the question of "how much is enough" is one that ultimately only you can answer.
I can tell you that for me, four 15" sealed subs is more than I need! I never work them hard. I've forgotten how big a volume you are filling, but the immediate room my system is in is 4230 cu.ft.. If I add permanently open spaces to that area it gets just over 9000 cu.ft.
I do like the thrill of my subs causing a visceral sensation when a dinosaur stomps and my adrenaline kicks in, and 4 sealed 15" subs delivers that for me! I'm sure if I had 4 ported 15" VTF-3 to A-B compare, the VTF-3's would impress, but I do not feel deprived in the least with what I have (otherwise I would have changed it by now - no WAF concerns, but I do like my room more open, given the choice).
I have a Denon AVR which allows me to setup differently for different sources. So, I have my DVD input set to run the subs 4-5dB hot to get the "WHUMPF" I like.
I actually have my CD input set to -2dB! I think Audyssey did a good job of setting the level, but there are so many songs where the recording engineer recorded the bass hot (or maybe they did not use subs when mixing). For me, this totally destroys music (the attacks at higher frequencies seem to lose resolution - in other words it sounds sloppy instead of tight)! I am not one to adjust for every song that comes on, so I have found -2dB to be the best compromise of still having good bass on a well recorded songs, but not allowing the recordings of great music with heavy bass to totally suck!
(For my music system, I am looking at some options that have a subwoofer volume level on the remote for easy adjustments on the fly.)
OTOH, so much of this has to do with your room and how much room gain you get and how well Audyssey (assuming you are using it or another room correction feature) handles your specifics. Fortunately, the subs you have been considering all have good tuning options so hopefully you can get it good enough for Audyssey to be able to handle the rest (tune your subs as best you can before Audyssey).

VTF-2:

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/hsu-vtf-2-mk5/conclusion

ULS-15:

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/hsu-uls-15-mk2/conclusion.

Good luck with your decision! The good thing is I don't think any of the gear you are considering would disappoint!

The ULS-15 would have a lot more mid-bass output but not quite the deep bass output of a VTF-2. The VTF-2 would have a more even balance of mid-bass and deep bass. Four of either would be a great system though.

 

[shadyJ]

2 Rythmik FV18v2 subs are smaller than 4 VTF3s. Just throwing that out there.

Four VTF-3s would have about the same amount of deep bass output as two FV18s from 16 Hz to 25 Hz, but at 30 Hz and above, four VTF-3s would have a very substantial output advantage. They would also likely make for a flatter frequency response as well. Not that two FV18s wouldn't be a great system, but you would be getting more bang for your buck with four VTF-3s- if you have room for them.

 

[KEW]

The ULS-15 would have a lot more mid-bass output but not quite the deep bass output of a VTF-2. The VTF-2 would have a more even balance of mid-bass and deep bass. Four of either would be a great system though.

This is where things get sticky!
When you say more even balance, are you not talking about in an anechoic chamber?
IME, if you get sub that locks you into a "flat" response you are screwed when you put it in a room - I admit that I always get plenty of extra room gain because invariably the sub ends up within a couple of feet of at least one wall.
I see as a great lie that we measure subs anechoically (or attempt to) and pretend that flat is desirable! While, at the same time, we know the room is not about to leave that response alone (I am talking room gain, not in-room nulls and nodes).
I agree that anechoic is the only good way to have a repeatable measurement standard, but I want a flat response after it is placed in my room.
Do you have a room that essentially offers no room gain, or do you just like your bass "over the top"? Or is there another option I'm missing? Do you really use that anechoically flat response or do you end up turning down the low frequencies to have a flat response n your room?

 

[lovinthehd]

Keep in mind he's already got four ported 12" subs now.

If you don't want anechoically flat why buy a sealed sub that's already been eq'd as such rather than providing your own custom eq to match your room?

This is where things get sticky!
When you say more even balance, are you not talking about in an anechoic chamber?
IME, if you get sub that locks you into a "flat" response you are screwed when you put it in a room - I admit that I always get plenty of extra room gain because invariably the sub ends up within a couple of feet of at least one wall.
I see as a great lie that we measure subs anechoically (or attempt to) and pretend that flat is desirable! While, at the same time, we know the room is not about to leave that response alone (I am talking room gain, not in-room nulls and nodes).
I agree that anechoic is the only good way to have a repeatable measurement standard, but I want a flat response after it is placed in my room.
Do you have a room that essentially offers no room gain, or do you just like your bass "over the top"? Or is there another option I'm missing? Do you really use that anechoically flat response or do you end up turning down the low frequencies to have a flat response n your room?

 

[2channel lover]

Mid-bass actually does not favor the ULS subs. The VTF-3 and VTF15h would still have a slight advantage in this range. However, if you were primarily interested in mid-bass frequency output, it wouldn't be worth dealing with the extra size of the ported subs for just an extra decibel in output.

All other things being equal, sealed subwoofers do not normally have an output advantage in any traditional subwoofer band frequencies, i.e., anything below 200 Hz.


"Need" has nothing to do with it. It's all about want!

Interesting but believable. I say interesting because my sales person at HSU felt the ULS might be a better fit with bookshelf speakers because they performed well in the mid bass region. I should note that he didn't say better than the VTF series...I said that, thanks for the correction.

All about want is 100% right!

 

[2channel lover]

Hopefully you guys are married and can understand otherwise you have no idea. I hate arguing n I argue plenty at work so when I get home that’s the last thing I wanna do. I just wanna few beers n to relax

31 years....I understand. I argue very little at work but still don't want to start it home!

 

[Reckel]

31 years....I understand. I argue very little at work but still don't want to start it home!

I can guarantee my job is different from anyone on here if maybe you can read into that but I agree with you. I’m not trying to be shitty either so don’t take it that way

 

[Reckel]

Sorry to everyone else that’s been posting today, I’ve been busy all morning into the afternoon n then my brother stopped by so of course we had to have some beers

 

[shadyJ]

This is where things get sticky!
When you say more even balance, are you not talking about in an anechoic chamber?
IME, if you get sub that locks you into a "flat" response you are screwed when you put it in a room - I admit that I always get plenty of extra room gain because invariably the sub ends up within a couple of feet of at least one wall.
I see as a great lie that we measure subs anechoically (or attempt to) and pretend that flat is desirable! While, at the same time, we know the room is not about to leave that response alone (I am talking room gain, not in-room nulls and nodes).
I agree that anechoic is the only good way to have a repeatable measurement standard, but I want a flat response after it is placed in my room.
Do you have a room that essentially offers no room gain, or do you just like your bass "over the top"? Or is there another option I'm missing? Do you really use that anechoically flat response or do you end up turning down the low frequencies to have a flat response n your room?

The more subwoofers you place in room, the more the in-room response will begin to resemble the subwoofer's native response- minus pressure vessel gain. Pressure vessel gain is the type of gain that disproportionately boosts the low end, and some rooms get a lot while others do not get so much. I don't assume that anyone's room will get a significant amount if I don't know for sure that they do. In my own theater room, I don't get very much, and it isn't a really huge room. I agree that the main goal should be a flat response in-room and at the listening position/s. As for my preferences, that is content-dependent. On some things I like over-the-top bass (drum'n'bass!!!!!), on other things I like the bass just a tad hot (action movies), and on some content I like a neutral response like say in acoustically natural recordings like orchestral music.

 

[Reckel]

For all you guys posting I honestly appreciate it, now I have three tough choices to choose from. My big thing is to not wanna have to upgrade in a few years. I found a good woman 14yrs ago but I don’t wanna push it. Don’t take this the wrong way but I can get the vtf3s but I don’t want conflict at home. After awhile I know she’d be fine with whatever I choose but it’s just initially

 

[Reckel]

I guess I am a bass head when it comes to movies. When the bass hits I want it to kick my ass while I’m sitting there watching. When I’m listening to music I obviously want it to hit but I don’t want it over the top. I wanna enjoy the music

 

[2channel lover]

I can guarantee my job is different from anyone on here if maybe you can read into that but I agree with you. I’m not trying to be shitty either so don’t take it that way

No...I really understand...Years ago, I had a job that pretty much require you to argue to get things done.

 

[lovinthehd]

For all you guys posting I honestly appreciate it, now I have three tough choices to choose from. My big thing is to not wanna have to upgrade in a few years. I found a good woman 14yrs ago but I don’t wanna push it. Don’t take this the wrong way but I can get the vtf3s but I don’t want conflict at home. After awhile I know she’d be fine with whatever I choose but it’s just initially

What's her biggest objection? The size or the aesthetic of the subs? Expense?

 

[Reckel]

What's her biggest objection? The size or the aesthetic of the subs? Expense?

More size but I think they’ll be fine. I show a pic of entire basement but idk how to put pics on here

 

[Reckel]

No...I really understand...Years ago, I had a job that pretty much require you to argue to get things done.

I work at night n the entire night is conflict

 

[Reckel]

I work at night n the entire night is conflict

Every night I work

 

[lovinthehd]

More size but I think they’ll be fine. I show a pic of entire basement but idk how to put pics on here

To place pics from your computer you'll likely need to resize them first, use the attach files button to attach them then you get a choice of thumbnail or full size for the post itself.

 

[Reckel]

What's her biggest objection? The size or the aesthetic of the subs? Expense?

It’s not so much the expense, it’s the fact that everything I want is kinda expensive n she just deals with poop till it breaks. Which I agree to a point but that’s why I try to buy the best at the time so I’m not not fixing it constantly

 

[Reckel]

To place pics from your computer you'll likely need to resize them first, use the attach files button to attach them then you get a choice of thumbnail or full size for the post itself.

I’m not at a computer, my phone

 

[lovinthehd]

I’m not at a computer, my phone

Try the tapatalk app I mentioned before....