Searching for the Next Upgrade Step

[drumace]

Hey guys,
Over the last year I've upgraded half of my stereo/HT equipment and now have:

• GoldenEar speakers: Triton One for the L/R, SuperCenterXXL for the center, SuberSat3 for the surrounds
• 3 x Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks for the L/R/C channels
• Marantz AV8801 pre-pro
• Marantz CD6005 CD player
• Pioneer PL-530 turntable with Audio Technica 440MLa, hooked to the AV8801 using Emotiva XPS-1 phono stage
• BlueJeansCable cabling for the entire system

I haven't reached my audio nirvana and trying to figure what's left to reach there.
My current budget allows me to spend additional ~$1500 to improve the equipment that was not upgraded yet (pre-pro, CD player, turntable).
I'd like to know which of the components should be upgrade in order to gain audible improvement.
I was considering adding a dedicated pure-analog stereo pre-amp (e.g. XSP-1) but received a negative feedback for this upgrade direction a year ago in this forum (when I had my previous speaker set). I was also considering replacing the CD player with a higher level model or add a dedicated DAC. Another thought was to replace the pre-pro with a higher level model (maybe the Emotiva XMC-1).

Any comment/suggestion would be appreciated.

 

[slipperybidness]

Add a big-boy subwoofer!

 

[everettT]

Add a big-boy subwoofer!

+1

 

[drumace]

Actually these speakers have built in subs and I do not feel any lack of bass and especially not in music.

 

[everettT]

Actually these speakers have built in subs and I do not feel any lack of bass and especially not in music.

They have built in woofers. For HT you need a good sub. How much output are you getting below 30hz?

 

[drumace]

Since my main concern is music, such low frequencies are irrelevant for me.
If someday in the future I’ll want to generate an earthquake at my living room then I’ll add GoldenEar’s sub as well
For now, I mainly interested in improving my music listening as much as possible without braking the bank (using the suggested budget I mentioned).

 

[everettT]

I dont see any other upgrade path. Your happy with the speakers and good electronics. The sub is the only thing left for ya. Other than measurement mic and minidsp I'm thinking your good.

Your speakers measure well above 150hz. You can clean up the bass by offloading it below 110hz to a sub or two.

 

[TheWarrior]

Since my main concern is music, such low frequencies are irrelevant for me.
If someday in the future I’ll want to generate an earthquake at my living room then I’ll add GoldenEar’s sub as well
For now, I mainly interested in improving my music listening as much as possible without braking the bank (using the suggested budget I mentioned).

Descriptors of bass such as "tight" and "fast" would generally be considered essential for accurate sound reproduction.

The fact that you listen to music within any enclosed space means that when it comes to those big bass wavelengths (piano Low A = 27.5 hz = 41.1 ft diameter sound pressure wave) so, the room is in control of what amount of bass you can hear in a room, as well as both the when and where!

Only way to influence that is to add more pressure sources to ensure you hear ALL of the bass at your listening positions!

 

[slipperybidness]

Actually these speakers have built in subs and I do not feel any lack of bass and especially not in music.

Yup, and I run a Rythmik F15HP with my GE Triton 2!

Yeah, you are likely fine for most styles of music, but if you are into movies/HT, then buy a real sub-woofer!

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F15HP.html

Are you looking for real world performance improvements? Or just looking to spend $?

You don't feel a lack of bass? But until you know what a REAL sub-woofer (or a pair) can do, then you don't know what you are missing.

 

[slipperybidness]

Since my main concern is music, such low frequencies are irrelevant for me.
If someday in the future I’ll want to generate an earthquake at my living room then I’ll add GoldenEar’s sub as well
For now, I mainly interested in improving my music listening as much as possible without braking the bank (using the suggested budget I mentioned).

Do you use any measurement gear?
Any room correction s/w?
Any room treatments?

Looking at your list of gear, the first and obvious item is to add a real sub-woofer. If you don't like that advice, then the next obvious items are measurement gear and room treatments (not more electronics).

And, there is no doubt that there are much better subs for less $ than the GE subs.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Since my main concern is music, such low frequencies are irrelevant for me.
If someday in the future I’ll want to generate an earthquake at my living room then I’ll add GoldenEar’s sub as well
For now, I mainly interested in improving my music listening as much as possible without braking the bank (using the suggested budget I mentioned).

It depends on what music you're listening to, but for a lot of jazz, especially fusion jazz, solo piano recorded in a studio, and most symphony orchestras, sub-30Hz reproduction is important. All of that "anything below 32Hz in music is irrelevant" stuff is incorrect nonsense, IMO. I've spent a lot of time with spectrum analysis tools and measuring my system (and other people's), and I wouldn't be without a sub. (And I have mains that are essentially flat to 20Hz.) And it's not just measuring, I have a sub with a remote and mute button, and as well-blended and subtle as the sub's contributions are, it is still obvious and missed when I mute it.

Depending on how you've placed your GEs, as in away from the walls but at symmetrical distances from the walls, you've probably got some really ragged bass response at your listening seat. I recommend you spend $300 and get the Parts Express OmniMic2 and measure at your listening seat. You will likely be surprised at what you find (and not pleased). IMO, the best plan is to get a powered sub with parametric equalizers and use the low-pass filter and the PEQs to fill in the suck-outs you measure, as well as extending the 20-40Hz octave response. And you can place the sub for smoothest bass response, not best imaging, because deep bass is omni-directional.

If your electronics work fine, I wouldn't recommend spending any money on replacements.

 

[Swerd]

Over the last year I've upgraded half of my stereo/HT equipment and now have:

• GoldenEar speakers: Triton One for the L/R, SuperCenterXXL for the center, SuberSat3 for the surrounds
• 3 x Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks for the L/R/C channels
• Marantz AV8801 pre-pro
• Marantz CD6005 CD player
• Pioneer PL-530 turntable with Audio Technica 440MLa, hooked to the AV8801 using Emotiva XPS-1 phono stage
• BlueJeansCable cabling for the entire system

I haven't reached my audio nirvana and trying to figure what's left to reach there.
My current budget allows me to spend additional ~$1500 to improve the equipment that was not upgraded yet (pre-pro, CD player, turntable).
I'd like to know which of the components should be upgrade in order to gain audible improvement.
I was considering adding a dedicated pure-analog stereo pre-amp (e.g. XSP-1) but received a negative feedback for this upgrade direction a year ago in this forum (when I had my previous speaker set). I was also considering replacing the CD player with a higher level model or add a dedicated DAC. Another thought was to replace the pre-pro with a higher level model (maybe the Emotiva XMC-1).

Your electronics are good. No need to change them.

You seem to like your speakers. They aren't bad, so keep them. Besides the above-mentioned sub woofer, I don't see how you might spend $1500 to improve your set up.

You mentioned getting an analog stereo pre-amp, a 'higher level' pre-pro, a different CD player, or adding a stand-alone DAC. They can provide a way to spend $1500 but they won't improve the sound quality you now have. I'd pass on all those.

So, I have to ask, is there something specific about the sound you now have that is bothering you? If you can't answer that, spend your money on more music.

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

$1500 could get you a fair bit of acoustic treatment in the room. IMO that would give you the most bang for your buck. Especially if you make them yourself. When I have time I will post my DIY Safe n' Sound MDF acoustic panels. Can be made on the cheap, look good, and have excellent properties.
Nice setup.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

^THIS!

You will never reach "Audio Nirvana" until the room is built for it.

 

[drumace]

They have built in woofers. For HT you need a good sub. How much output are you getting below 30hz?

View attachment 25520

BTW, where did you get this graph image from?

 

[MrBoat]

I would say to add some strategic listening options to your setup, such as; switching off the center and setting up a near field arrangement and ignoring the room for a change. Toe the speakers in and listen to them nearly point blank. The upgrade in this circumstance might would be a comfortable listening chair instead.

Since the advent of HT, much effort now goes to, whole room audio nirvana, that almost entirely discounts some other natural sweet spots. 3 of 3 people I personally know with rather elaborate HT systems, built them based on an audience that rarely (if ever) exists. Now they look rather lonely sitting in perhaps 1/6th of a rather expensive sweet spot.

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

It really does make a huge difference. You can have $60,000 speakers, but with no room treatment you won't be getting the full experience. Flipped, you could have a low-medium end setup, and can potentially sound better than a super hifi system with no treatment.

This was my old basement where I started building these. I've made 4 in total now. Made better than anything you could buy. I should sell these Extremely strudy and do a great job. I will do a full post on how to build these when I have the time. If you lookup the properties of this Safe n' Sound, it's absolutely amazing. It supresses 90%+ of high frequencies, and does a pretty good job of squelching the mids to lows too, especially compared to other materials readily available.

 

[everettT]

BTW, where did you get this graph image from?

Stereophile.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/goldenear-technology-triton-one-loudspeaker

 

[Drunkpenguin]

It really does make a huge difference. You can have $60,000 speakers, but with no room treatment you won't be getting the full experience. Flipped, you could have a low-medium end setup, and can potentially sound better than a super hifi system with no treatment.

This was my old basement where I started building these. I've made 4 in total now. Made better than anything you could buy. I should sell these Extremely strudy and do a great job. I will do a full post on how to build these when I have the time. If you lookup the properties of this Safe n' Sound, it's absolutely amazing. It supresses 90%+ of high frequencies, and does a pretty good job of squelching the mids to lows too, especially compared to other materials readily available.

Yup! The room is a much bigger influence than the gear itself. I've made panels and bought panels. One could make some good side cash selling them because everybody else is seriously over charging for these things. I've been buying lately because I get lazy. My theater has the entire cavity of the AT screen wall treated, a wall to wall panel from ear level down on the sides, 9 additional 4x2 panels on the sides and rear wall. 2 4x2 panels on the ceiling, and a floor to ceiling trap in each corner.

I would sell all my gear and buy cheaper stuff before I removed those treatments and bought more expensive gear.

 

[drumace]

Hey guys,
I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions.
Here are my comments:

1. Sub - I did a LF test using test tones available on YouTube from 40Hz down to 20Hz.
The measurement was done only using my own ears (no mics).
My findings - the bass response is good and usable down to 22Hz (sounds pretty flat to me). At 21Hz there is a volume drop and at Hz there's nothing I can hear. The system is NOT calibrated to maybe calibration can compensate and flatten the response. In any case, at least for music, it doesn't appear to me there's a need for additional subs. BTW, the bass volume on the Tritons is set to default (mid) so there's a room to grow if needed.

2. Room treatment - my listening room is our living room since I have no dedicated room.
The Tritons are 8 feet apart, located about 10" from the back wall, 3 feet from side walls, and are toe-in around 25-30 degrees.
The listening position is 9 feet from the speakers wall and have 4 feet space to the back wall of the listening position.
I have a big rug on the floor, big sofa, coffee table in the middle. The walls are empty besides one wall which has windows and thin curtains covering them. The ceiling is clear too (about 8.5 feet high).
I did a basic test of clapping my hands in various positions and I could clearly hear echo of high-pitched sound in most areas.
Since this is a living room, I cannot put studio materials such as big black bass traps, foam tiles, etc.
I would like to know which of the uncovered areas is the most critical one - the ceiling? the side walls? the back walls? and how much (in percentage) should be covered to reduce feedback and keep a "normal" living room look.