Amplifier for SVS ultras 7.1 - XPA7/AT1807 etc.

[adatrao]

Dear Friends
I presently have SVS Ultra 7.1 system connected with Onkyo NR818. recently have been to a friends place and saw a simple system do wonders, thats when i realized the importance of an amp.
I want to improve the listening experience better and so wanted to add a amplifier.

Present setup:
AVR - Onkyo NR 818
main Speakers - SVS Ultra 7.1 (ultra tower, ultra center and ultra surrounds, PB 13 ultra)
second speakers pair - Quadral Phonologues, want to use them for either second room or music in the main room.
Oppo BDP 103d
TV - Panasonic Plasma (65inch ST50P)
Room size - 2500 cubic feet.
50:50 music and movies.

My questions/doubts:

1. So whats the best amplifier to connect to this setup?
2. Got a quote for ATI AT1807 for $ 2550 or Emotiva XPA 7 Gen 3 for $2000 with a dealer locally in Saudi Arabia. Is it wise to pick from these two? or Are they a OVERKILL? I am slightly leaning towards XPA 7 but could find many reviews for this model.
   
3. Is going for balanced input based amp for my set up necessary, considering the overall cost for SVS ultras?
   
4. Or should I opt for something like Emovita A500 or monoprice Monolith 7 channel amp.
   
5. As a thumb rule, I am not sure how much should we invest for a set up like mine (%wise of the total budget).

Any inputs are welcome to make my decision.
Thanks (in advance).

 

[PENG]

Dear Friends
I presently have SVS Ultra 7.1 system connected with Onkyo NR818. recently have been to a friends place and saw a simple system do wonders, thats when i realized the importance of an amp.
I want to improve the listening experience better and so wanted to add a amplifier.

Present setup:
AVR - Onkyo NR 818
main Speakers - SVS Ultra 7.1 (ultra tower, ultra center and ultra surrounds, PB 13 ultra)
second speakers pair - Quadral Phonologues, want to use them for either second room or music in the main room.
Oppo BDP 103d
TV - Panasonic Plasma (65inch ST50P)
Room size - 2500 cubic feet.
50:50 music and movies.

My questions/doubts:

1. So whats the best amplifier to connect to this setup?
2. Got a quote for ATI AT1807 for $ 2550 or Emotiva XPA 7 Gen 3 for $2000 with a dealer locally in Saudi Arabia. Is it wise to pick from these two? or Are they a OVERKILL? I am slightly leaning towards XPA 7 but could find many reviews for this model.
   
3. Is going for balanced input based amp for my set up necessary, considering the overall cost for SVS ultras?
   
4. Or should I opt for something like Emovita A500 or monoprice Monolith 7 channel amp.
   
5. As a thumb rule, I am not sure how much should we invest for a set up like mine (%wise of the total budget).

Any inputs are welcome to make my decision.
Thanks (in advance).

I do think the 7 channel amps would be an overkill. Why not get a 3 channel amp such as the XPA-3 gen 3 for the LCR and let the AVR drives the 4 surround channels.?

 

[lovinthehd]

Might want to have @Pogre share his experience going from a Marantz avr with his Ultras and then adding the Monolith amp....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don’t know about Saudi, but here in the USA you can get B-stock Monolith 200x7 amp for $1300 delivered w/ 5YR ATI warranty.

 

[adatrao]

I do think the 7 channel amps would be an overkill. Why not get a 3 channel amp such as the XPA-3 gen 3 for the LCR and let the AVR drives the 4 surround channels.?

Just for future proofing and also I wanted to add Zone 2/3.

 

[adatrao]

I don’t know about Saudi, but here in the USA you can get B-stock Monolith 200x7 amp for $1300 delivered w/ 5YR ATI warranty.

The shipping from USA is around $450 for any 5 or 7 channel amp from amazon (ex. XPA 5/7, Marantz, Yamaha). So its extremely high and so started looking here. I am getting the XPA 5 or 7 at USA pricing.
The local dealer has NAD and Niam as well but for 2 channel.

 

[PENG]

The shipping from USA is around $450 for any 5 or 7 channel amp from amazon (ex. XPA 5/7, Marantz, Yamaha). So its extremely high and so started looking here. I am getting the XPA 5 or 7 at USA pricing.
The local dealer has NAD and Niam as well but for 2 channel.

Sounds like the XPAs are you best choice then in terms of Power to price ratio. I would still suggest you get the XPA-3 for now. This way, in case you want to go with higher end amps such as the "pure balance" ATI 2002 for stereo music enjoyment down the road you won't feel as much pain, or if you end up being perfectly happy with the XPA, you can just add more channels (take advantage of the modular feature).

 

[adatrao]

Sounds like the XPAs are you best choice then in terms of Power to price ratio. I would still suggest you get the XPA-3 for now. This way, in case you want to go with higher end amps such as the "pure balance" ATI 2002 for stereo music enjoyment down the road you won't feel as much pain, or if you end up being perfectly happy with the XPA, you can just add more channels (take advantage of the modular feature).

Thanks Peng for the quick reply.
How much importance should we attach to "balanced amplifier" - because the section that i have here are XPA gen 3 (3/5/7) which are balanced vs ATI unbalanced. Which one should we opt keeping in view that i will keep them running until they give up.

 

[PENG]

Thanks Peng for the quick reply.
How much importance should we attach to "balanced amplifier" - because the section that i have here are XPA gen 3 (3/5/7) which are balanced vs ATI unbalanced. Which one should we opt keeping in view that i will keep them running until they give up.

It is not important if the length of the interconnects between the preamp and power amp are kept short, like less than 20 ft in general. The ATI 2000 series I mentioned are what they consider as "Pure balance", that means the circuitry would be balanced right through all stages from input to output, and depending on the design that could result in doubling up components used in the amp stages. If done right, fully balanced designe could result in not just noise reduction, but also lower distortions though the effects may be too low to be noticeable/audible.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you are not planning on upgrading - if you are planning on buying something to keep for as long as possible - like 25 years or more, I recommend getting the ATI AT1807 and be done with it.

Balanced vs single-ended is not that important.

 

[adatrao]

It is not important if the length of the interconnects between the preamp and power amp are kept short, like less than 20 ft in general. The ATI 2000 series I mentioned are what they consider as "Pure balance", that means the circuitry would be balanced right through all stages from input to output, and depending on the design that could result in doubling up components used in the amp stages. If done right, fully balanced designe could result in not just noise reduction, but also lower distortions though the effects may be too low to be noticeable/audible.

Thanks.

So should I opt now for fully balanced model like AT2002 or emotiva XPA DR3 which is 3 channel fully balanced?

 

[adatrao]

If you are not planning on upgrading - if you are planning on buying something to keep for as long as possible - like 25 years or more, I recommend getting the ATI AT1807 and be done with it.

Balanced vs single-ended is not that important.

Thanks.
My mind is still in dilemma after reading the balanced vs. unbalanced dicussions and then decide between XPAs and the ATs .

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks.
My mind is still in dilemma after reading the balanced vs. unbalanced dicussions and then decide between XPAs and the ATs .

Some people think that Fully Balanced sounds better than Single-ended design?

Just take at look the Stereophile measurements of the Amps and compare the results for Balanced vs single-ended. The difference is really insignificant.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

First, have we established that your speakers actually NEED an external amp?

Because if your system doesn't need the extra power, then you won't improve the sound quality.

And if you just wan't to "convert" from AVR to "separates", then you might as well go with a separate Pre-pro + Amp.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-separates-vs-avr-thread.110901/

 

[adatrao]

First, have we established that your speakers actually NEED an external amp?

Because if your system doesn't need the extra power, then you won't improve the sound quality.

And if you just wan't to "convert" from AVR to "separates", then you might as well go with a separate Pre-pro + Amp.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-separates-vs-avr-thread.110901/

Hi
Recently I purchased the Quadral phonologues speakers from a friend. When I did the demo at his place with an amplifier it was amazing. but when I brought them to my home and hooked up to avr NR 818 ( just removed the ultra towers wires and placed the phonologues in their position) I did not get the same effect. They did not sound so good. Then I felt that amplifier is required to make my system sound better.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

(I read that thread of yours and still could not completely understand the concept. )

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hi
Recently I purchased the Quadral phonologues speakers from a friend. When I did the demo at his place with an amplifier it was amazing. but when I brought them to my home and hooked up to avr NR 818 ( just removed the ultra towers wires and placed the phonologues in their position) I did not get the same effect. They did not sound so good. Then I felt that amplifier is required to make my system sound better.

You have 4 variables: 1) speakers, 2) amps, 3) pre-amp/pre-pro, 4) Room Acoustics.

Did you also buy his Preamp or Pre-pro? What was he using?

He could be using something with Audyssey Dynamic EQ which could make the sound more lively and "dynamic". But that's not the Amp itself! It is the Processor!

Also, his room is not the same as your room. So it may also sound differently.

But my guess is that his Processor may be what's different. Different sound settings.

In most cases I've encountered (most people sit less than 10' away), the Amp is the LEAST of the variables.

 

[KEW]

Hi
Recently I purchased the Quadral phonologues speakers from a friend. When I did the demo at his place with an amplifier it was amazing. but when I brought them to my home and hooked up to avr NR 818 ( just removed the ultra towers wires and placed the phonologues in their position) I did not get the same effect. They did not sound so good. Then I felt that amplifier is required to make my system sound better.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

(I read that thread of yours and still could not completely understand the concept. )

Please provide the exact model of your Quadral Phonologues. Hopefully we can find test data showing the phase/impedance chart to determine if they need more power than a typical speaker.
You 818 is a pretty solid unit, rated at 135WPC RMS (X 2), and the THX certifications is additional assurance its knees won't buckle if the impedance drops a little!

Here is Quadral's website translated to english:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.quadral.com/lautsprecher/produktarchiv/phonologue-c/&prev=search

Unless the Quadrals are serious power hogs, the differences you heard were room acoustics and/or how the pre/pro part of the AVR is setup (like ADTG said).

 

[adatrao]

My friend was using the following for demo:
Carver preamp - Carver CT 24
Naim Nap 90 power amp
Source apple music and flac through inatek BT
NO Audyssey Dynamic EQ setting.

 

[adatrao]

Please provide the exact model of your Quadral Phonologues. Hopefully we can find test data showing the phase/impedance chart to determine if they need more power than a typical speaker.
You 818 is a pretty solid unit, rated at 135WPC RMS (X 2), and the THX certifications is additional assurance its knees won't buckle if the impedance drops a little!

Here is Quadral's website translated to english:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.quadral.com/lautsprecher/produktarchiv/phonologue-c/&prev=search

Unless the Quadrals are serious power hogs, the differences you heard were room acoustics and/or how the pre/pro part of the AVR is setup (like ADTG said).

The model is Quadral Wotan Phonologue

 

[adatrao]

The model is Quadral Wotan Phonologue

They are 8 ohm rated and 150 to 250 w with 50 w as minimum.