What are my rights here in Ontario canada ?

[Muzique Junkie]

I've had this amp in question that I paid 5k for , since mid spring 2017

It has popped 2xs already

I sent in for diagnosis

I'm told it was a dead short , my dynaudios were ided as the likely culprits

The dyns have been thoroughly tested and are working fine , so no dead short

The problem begins with the dealer now who has presented me with a 700.00 repair bill , while telling me he is being completely fair with me , since this cost him parts and labour (I'm still very well within my warranty)

He is also the builder co. of this amp

The dealer is willing to absorb that cost , if i trade down to a lesser amp , a 1k dollar loss , and a lesser amp for me

The amp would be way under powering my speakers btw which can never be a good move

I wanted to go Bryston originally for the no hassle 20 year warranty , as i questioned this mere 2 year warranty on a 5k amp , and was assured he does not hide behind warranties ,and that i would never have an issue

This entire scene smells fishy to me

Originally there was no other amp he could sell me when i 1st called saying I've lost confidence in this product , i asked him to advise me on another comparable amp and suddenly up pops another lesser amp , at a loss to me

I never authorized such a expensive repair , and would have refused it if i would have been given the chance (And i still feel I'm within my warranty since I've eliminated what i was told was the culprit).

Can this dealer simply hold my property hostage , of which I've already lost confidence in.

Even if i pay the 700.00 I will never trust this won't be a continuing problem

Please advise


Thanks

 

[agarwalro]

Have you tested the speaker wires with a short circuit tester. It could easily be mid wire and not necessarily a stray wire at the terminals.

Oye! This is a tough situation all around. You don't have any documented guarantee or warranty anywhere? Does this guy have a website or Facebook where guarantee or warranty is implied or disclosed?

The only option seems, pay up and expose his behavior in audio video circles. At least others can benefit from your experience with this guy.

 

[speakerman39]

+1^^^^^ Sounds like a direct short usually involving speaker wiring. Could even be a very small break in the jacket. My eyes are not good enough to see a small break. I doubt the OP's/yours could see it either. That may very well be the culprit. Just saying........


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Muzique Junkie]

The speakers are confirmed A ok by Dynaudio

It appears his claims are false .

Im naive to a point , but over many years i would never doubt Dynaudio

The warranty is 2 years (started May 2017)

Im offered the Hegel 160 as a straight trade (H 160 is well under powered for my focus 340s It would never satisfy me) .

I would likely take a Hegel 300 as a trade , but its discontinued ?

I paid cash so we didnt have to pay tax (Likely illegal by him)

Even if i pay the 600.00 i will never stop worrying , no way if this happened again ,can i keep dishing him my hard earned money at his will , because he can say its my issue as much as he desires

Trust is absolutely demolished here

Thank you mate

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Thanks Phil

Arent speakers passive , in that the receive and cant send back enough current to destroy a 5k amp?

 

[Muzique Junkie]

PS

My speaker cables , if thats what you mean , are secure

Gutwire banana plugs , never moved since plugged in

 

[Muzique Junkie]

No pets , no kids here either , so no one chewing wires

 

[Muzique Junkie]

And another PS

What or where is the jacket?

 

[highfigh]

Thanks Phil

Arent speakers passive , in that the receive and cant send back enough current to destroy a 5k amp?

If a speaker shorts, the current source is the amplifier which, BTW, I haven't seen a brand or model. Haven't seen a model for the speakers, either.

Some Dynaudio speakers are known as 'difficult load', but that doesn't mean they can't be driven effectively by mainstream electronics. I sold a system in early '07 with Dynaudio Audience speakers, which are closer to 4 Ohm than 8 Ohm and they have been driven by a Denon AVR-987 without ANY kind of problems.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

@highfigh

"If a speaker shorts, the current source is the amplifier"

Does that mean the speaker can send that back to amp , and fry the amp ?

Speakers are focus 340s

I dont want to mention an amp until im absolutely certain ,im feeling very certain ,but i will not besmirch a reputation until i ve covered all my bases

Then im unforgiving

So far i have confirmation from Dynaudio , im not sure what else i would need ?

Thanks mate

 

[speakerman39]

And another PS

What or where is the jacket?

The jacket is the coating that the speaker wires are encased in. Cracks can form in them and create direct shorts. Have seen it a few times. My eyes are not good enough to find such cracks as they can be very small. But, just big enough to create problems. That may or may not be your problem. It certainly is possible. Close inspection w/a very good set of eyes can be a big help in that regard.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Muzique Junkie]

@Phil Lepley

Thanks mate

I have kids with 20/20 vision , i will have them check

The cables are a few months old only and in a no traffic zone , but ill check

Also , to all reading , I ve been running another , less expensive amp , an old Harmon Kardon tin can , for a few days now , zero issues

Does that evidence anything , ? Same speakers , cables etc ?

Cheers

 

[speakerman39]

@Phil Lepley

Thanks mate

I have kids with 20/20 vision , i will have them check

The cables are a few months old only and in a no traffic zone , but ill check

Also , to all reading , I ve been running another , less expensive amp , an old Harmon Kardon tin can , for a few days now , zero issues

Does that evidence anything , ? Same speakers , cables etc ?

Cheers

If you are using the same exact wires w/the HK tin can, then that is a good sign as long as the old tin can is not shutting down. It sounds like the speaker wires may NOT be the culprit. There must be something else going on. For the kind of money that you paid I would be livid! So, I feel your pain. It never hurts to check and double check all of your connections from beginning to end. Other than that, it might be something internal within the amp itself.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Thanks mate

Yes all same cables , even in same sequence to left and rights

Since you said cables , i ve wiggled mine on both sides trying to activate something if im able , so far no shorts

Man this amp would be enough to torture intel from any suspect/terrorist locked in a room listening to it

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Consumer & Corporate Affairs (Federal).

Ontario also has provincial consumer protection legislation.

You can always escalate to the media; your local TV station might be interested. It's a "big stick" threat, so don't jump there, but it's there if all else fails.

Since we don't know how your system is configured, or how you go about moving or connecting / disconnecting your gear, it remains possible that your dealer is correct. We have no way of knowing one way or the other.

Be aware that your speakers themselves don't have to be shorted in order to short the output of an amp; one stray strand of a speaker cable at the amp or the speaker terminals, even if only for a fraction of a second, is all it takes. Usually this happens when the user hooks up speakers with the amp powered up. NEVER hook up, adjust, or otherwise screw with speaker wiring with the amp powered up. NEVER.

Warranties and Guarantees are very distinct; do not confuse the two.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

@
Johnny2Bad

Thanks mate

Would not the full Dynaudio inspection have covered that ?

Both speakers passed A ok with Dynaudio

I told them of the dead short issue , so they had all that info to go forward with

Cheers

 

[Muzique Junkie]

And another amp , lower end , has been running for a few days without issue

Exact same setup , wiring etc

 

[Johnny2Bad]

@
Johnny2Bad

Thanks mate

Would not the full Dynaudio inspection have covered that ?

Both speakers passed A ok with Dynaudio

I told them of the dead short issue , so they had all that info to go forward with

Cheers

As I said, we do not know your setup or practices. The speakers could easily be just fine, if a wiring fault between the amp and the speakers are the cause, and that fault could only last a fraction of a second. You don't say what kind of amp it is, but it sounds like a Solid State (Transistor) output stage. If the output of such an amp is shorted for even a fraction of a second, you can easily blow all the output transistors.

There is an old gag amongst amplifier repair technicians, which you may not find funny, but it goes like this:
Power Transistors will blow to protect the equipment's fuses.

Q for you: What is the nature of the repairs done? Both channels or just one?

 

[Muzique Junkie]

@Johnny2Bad

"Q for you: What is the nature of the repairs done? Both channels or just one?"

I was not informed , i was just told that im being treated very fairly , by the best amp guy in the business , and that is what the cost is

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Dealer also got insulted when i said i ve lost confidence in the product , a bit snarky as well

I was told that if i dont have confidence in the best mind in the business , then he does nt know what else to say to me

Im not playing a game here , im not sharing names until im absolutely certain of this situation

I apologize if that appears evasive , but a persons reputation is a precious thing , once its out on the inter webs its hard to un do that