I would like to say thanks

[Lilmo6868]

Just want to give quick thanks to the ones on here that have answered and gave me some opinions on the questions that I have asked in the past 2 or 3 months.
I do believe I am done now with my upgrading.
Denon 6300
2 vtf2mk5 subs
Rbh r55ti s front towers
Rbh r56 center
Paradigm 6" moniters rear
2 theater solutions 6" inwall surround backs
4 theater solutions 6" in ceiling middle and rear heights

Running all 11 channels on the 6300 and just sounds awesome
Front towers are crossed at 40, Center is crossed at 60, surround rears are crossed at 60, and the 6 Theatre Solution speakers are crossed at 100.

Rented the new Transformers Blu-ray last night and I highly recommend it. The rears and Heights just came to life with the soundtrack of this movie and some of the bass notes are unreal .knocked stuff off some shelves.lol.. Dolby Atmos is pretty cool and this receiver does a good job of sending out the signal. It also does a hell of a job upscaling other tracks to Atmos and the DTs neural X is also very good sounding. I don't know that I can pick a favorite between the two.
The change from the 10-year old paradigms to the r55ti and the r56c was a much-needed upgrade as I am hearing things in my front soundstage now that I did not before. I just like the idea of multiple voice speakers in a front speaker, and there is multiple in the center now also so the dialogue just seems clearer, and the highs in both are also much better. Basically I'm just extremely satisfied now, thanks to all

 

[everettT]

Glad your enjoying them. I'd highly recommend a higher crossover, at least 60. Play around and see. I wouldnt want my mains crossed at their f3. Crossovers are not at brick wall so your asking them to play lower than they should with a sub, especially since your subs have nice mid bass.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Agreed, I set xover at +20hz to f3

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I have tried every crossover in the world and 80 always seems best with my gear.

 

[Pogre]

Just want to give quick thanks to the ones on here that have answered and gave me some opinions on the questions that I have asked in the past 2 or 3 months.
I do believe I am done now with my upgrading.
Denon 6300
2 vtf2mk5 subs
Rbh r55ti s front towers
Rbh r56 center
Paradigm 6" moniters rear
2 theater solutions 6" inwall surround backs
4 theater solutions 6" in ceiling middle and rear heights

Running all 11 channels on the 6300 and just sounds awesome
Front towers are crossed at 40, Center is crossed at 60, surround rears are crossed at 60, and the 6 Theatre Solution speakers are crossed at 100.

Rented the new Transformers Blu-ray last night and I highly recommend it. The rears and Heights just came to life with the soundtrack of this movie and some of the bass notes are unreal .knocked stuff off some shelves.lol.. Dolby Atmos is pretty cool and this receiver does a good job of sending out the signal. It also does a hell of a job upscaling other tracks to Atmos and the DTs neural X is also very good sounding. I don't know that I can pick a favorite between the two.
The change from the 10-year old paradigms to the r55ti and the r56c was a much-needed upgrade as I am hearing things in my front soundstage now that I did not before. I just like the idea of multiple voice speakers in a front speaker, and there is multiple in the center now also so the dialogue just seems clearer, and the highs in both are also much better. Basically I'm just extremely satisfied now, thanks to all

Awesome! We love it when folks follow up and let us know how it worked out. I remember your thread(s). Glad you're happy now. I feel the same way. The guys here helped me too and I'm really happy with what I have now.

I do agree with the above. I have towers and currently I'm running with 120hz crossover (a bit high, but I dont have any localization issues) as that seems to give me the best bass response. Experiment with it a little. 80hz is pretty common.

 

[KEW]

I agree, 40Hz is too low for those speakers.
Try 80 for your mains.
I would go with 100Hz for center and surrounds.
To me, one of the greatest benefits of a sub is not making mid-woofers in your two way speakers try to produce good clean mids while having to produce bass notes (which can press heir limits).
The purple trace is for the Paradigm Mini Monitor (not sure which monitor you have) with a 6.5" woofer (blue is for subwoofer):

As you can see, it rolls-off at around 100Hz and I would consider 100Hz a minimum and maybe go with 120Hz!

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/paradigm-mini-monitor-speaker-system

 

[Lilmo6868]

Audyssey set the front and center to full range. I knew that I needed to send a little bit of that to the sub That's the main reason why I crossed them so low I guess. Does this mean that audyssey felt the speakers were capable of decent Bass ? I'm still confused on that issue

 

[everettT]

Audyssey set the front and center to full range. I knew that I needed to send a little bit of that to the sub That's the main reason why I crossed them so low I guess. Does this mean that audyssey felt the speakers were capable of decent Bass ? I'm still confused on that issue

Unless your speakers have an f3 in the low twenties and you are using a sub, always set them to small. Don't think of it as "large" or "small", think of it is do I want to redirect the low frequencies to the sub, which is the small setting. As mentioned above, especially, if you have a ported sub and ported mains you want to cross at least an octave higher than the mains f3

 

[PENG]

Audyssey set the front and center to full range. I knew that I needed to send a little bit of that to the sub That's the main reason why I crossed them so low I guess. Does this mean that audyssey felt the speakers were capable of decent Bass ? I'm still confused on that issue

Audyssey did not set them to full range, Denon did. Audyssey almost always recommended setting speakers to small, though with the higher resolution of the XT32 SubEQHT, they relaxed that recommendations a little. My guess is that they probably tried to appease users who have "large" speakers.

Like others, I have tried every possible combinations of crossovers and found that if I went higher than 80 Hz, things would get complicated, as indicated by numerous frequency response plots using REW. The trouble is that no matter how good Audyssey is, it seems to have difficulty in getting the 50 to 90 Hz produced by so many speakers to play well together. You ended up getting less for more, at least that's the case with my room.

 

[agarwalro]

Audyssey did not set them to full range, Denon did. Audyssey almost always recommended setting speakers to small, though with the higher resolution of the XT32 SubEQHT, they relaxed that recommendations a little. My guess is that they probably tried to appease users who have "large" speakers.

+1.

Setting crossovers is based on implementation of the manufacturer.

 

[Pogre]

Audyssey did not set them to full range, Denon did. Audyssey almost always recommended setting speakers to small, though with the higher resolution of the XT32 SubEQHT, they relaxed that recommendations a little. My guess is that they probably tried to appease users who have "large" speakers.

Like others, I have tried every possible combinations of crossovers and found that if I went higher than 80 Hz, things would get complicated, as indicated by numerous frequency response plots using REW. The trouble is that no matter how good Audyssey is, it seems to have difficulty in getting the 50 to 90 Hz produced by so many speakers to play well together. You ended up getting less for more, at least that's the case with my room.

Yup. Even when I was using bookshelfs for my main speakers my Marantz would set them to large. Maybe they don't like telling folks their speakers are "small".

 

[KEW]

Audyssey set the front and center to full range. I knew that I needed to send a little bit of that to the sub That's the main reason why I crossed them so low I guess. Does this mean that audyssey felt the speakers were capable of decent Bass ? I'm still confused on that issue

Yep, we all get that and we all manually correct it.
That is probably the first advice given to anyone setting up Audyssey!
Glad you stated your XO frequency so we noticed to let you know!

 

[Lilmo6868]

Do any of y'all ever just turn the subs off and listen to the actual low levels that are going to the front and the center? With a sine wave sweep off YouTube Maybe ? I was thinking about trying this later today or tonight

 

[Pogre]

Do any of y'all ever just turn the subs off and listen to the actual low levels that are going to the front and the center? With a sine wave sweep off YouTube Maybe ? I was thinking about trying this later today or tonight

Have you tried bumping your crossover up a little higher? How does it sound?

 

[everettT]

Do any of y'all ever just turn the subs off and listen to the actual low levels that are going to the front and the center? With a sine wave sweep off YouTube Maybe ? I was thinking about trying this later today or tonight

If you run in pure Direct your avr shouldn't send the signal to the sub

 

[KEW]

Do any of y'all ever just turn the subs off and listen to the actual low levels that are going to the front and the center? With a sine wave sweep off YouTube Maybe ? I was thinking about trying this later today or tonight

Wait for a response from others that know more than I, but I know the pure sustained test tones can be very taxing (if you play with high SPL/volume). In music, we have some quick transients as when a drum is struck or a string is plucked, but that is only for a fraction of a second.
You should be fine as long as you keep the volume fairly low and listen for any indications of struggle. Set the volume using a test tone well within your speakers ability, you don't want to be turning up a 20Hz tone so you can hear it when your speaker can't produce it. Also, not that it is so critical, but you might keep an ear out for harmonic distortion; this is where the speaker might be struggling to produce a 35Hz tone, so it produces 70Hz, 105Hz, 140Hz, etc as a "side effect".
Lastly, if your speaker is producing a good tone at, say, 35Hz, that does not mean it can cleanly produce all of the midrange content of typical music at he same time. Err on the side of crossing high rather than low.

Note: a well designed sub is much more forgiving since the designer chose the amplification to fit the speaker and they incorporate limiters to prevent over-driving the driver. Somehow the "hey, watch this" mentality of abusing subs became the normal expectation, LOL!

 

[PENG]

Do any of y'all ever just turn the subs off and listen to the actual low levels that are going to the front and the center? With a sine wave sweep off YouTube Maybe ? I was thinking about trying this later today or tonight

I bet most of us have tried that. The issue is that in most cases the bigger your towers the lower they can go and their bass don't play well with your sub's bass, resulting in more dips and bumps. So the speakers set to large would add more bass naturally, but you could well ended up with less bass, less smooth bass or both.

For better overall sound, set all speakers to small, xo 80 hz, then fine tune from there.

 

[Lilmo6868]

Some of y'all got ESP. LOL one of my next questions was going to be what exactly is pure Direct. I noticed that in the sound program choices

 

[KEW]

Some of y'all got ESP. LOL one of my next questions was going to be what exactly is pure Direct. I noticed that in the sound program choices

The concept of pure direct is to avoid all possible extraneous noise from any electronics. Thus Audyssey is turned off, usually the display is turned off (until you change a setting then it will turn on briefly then shut back off). Obstensibly, this placates those that believe any processing defiles the purity of the signal. However, from a more realistic standpoint (since the noise levels from said processing is inaudible, and most of us like some of that processing) Pure Direct becomes an easy way to temporarily reset your AVR to a pure and direct signal. For example, if you wanted to compare two pairs of speakers, you would generally not want Audyssey in play (given the notion that the better they sound before roomEQ, the better they will sound after EQ is applied).

 

[Lilmo6868]

So it is just merely an unprocessed Amplified signal running straight through the AVR