IN NEED OF SOME EXPERIENCED ADVICE

[Coat2017]

Hey all
I'm new to this whole thing, so please take it easy on me.

I recently started collecting components to build a stereo system, sole purpose being playing vinyl. I know...... I'm late to this dance. But now I get it, and REALLY want to experience the sound of these records the best way that I can.

Since I didn't want to spontaneously spend a couple hundred on equipment that I had no idea how to use, or in hopes that it would just happen to sound perfect, I started small and simple.

I had an older Kenwood turntable, picked up from a yard sale years ago. Stylus is in good condition, overall the thing works fine. No preamp, so I knew I had to pick up a receiver that had the Phono input. I was at a local CD/movie shop and they had an Optimus receiver and speakers for a hundred bucks. Done.

SO, currently, I'm running a Kenwood KD-12RB into an Optimus STAV-3770, out to 2 Optimus STS-620 passive speakers, in a small/medium sized room (I don't need to shake anything off the shelves).
The receiver output is 100W and the speakers handle 50W each.

Overall, the sound is good! For someone who just wants to listen to records, this would be perfect. It can get loud, the speakers handle a nice balance of high and mid, with some bass.
However.... that's why I'm here. If I just wanted to listen to music, I'd just play the CD. I could just stream to some bluetooth speakers. But that's not what this setup is for.

I know that the speakers I'm running work, but I want it all to sound better. I know I'm not going to get a PERFECT sound on my current budget, or by tomorrow. But my goal is to progress, continuously improving the setup, starting with critical pieces first.

I'm thinking the turntable is going to do fine for now. It works, it's stable, it has the VTA adjuster, the RCA cables are in great condition, phono grounding port attached. A new turntable is currently not at the top of the list.

The receiver has everything I need in regards to options (balance adjuster, phono port, etc). The receiver should be fine, unless someone recommends that 100W output is insufficient. Again, I'm not in a large room, and the volume at which I've been playing from the receiver has MAYBE reached 1/4 of the max output/volume. So, to me, this sounds like it'll do.

Honestly, the SPEAKERS seem to be the issue. After some research, it looks like this brand/model was from Radioshack? It sounds like the speakers are pushing their limit, even when I'm only pushing the volume a quarter of the max. I don't know much, but I trust my ears: something is off.

I'm trying to get some advice on speaker upgrades. My current budget is 200 max, I'm looking at bookshelf style, passive, and would prefer to have some decent bass output. I can grab a sub down the road, but for now it's not critical.

Currently, I'm looking at either the Klipsch RB-51 IIs or the Micca MB-42Xs. After some research, these 2 came up on a lot of search results for "best speakers for vinyl" ..... oh the joy of Googling in 2017....

I can follow technical specs, but am having a hard time wrapping my head around wattage and how to determine what will "work" and what would be pushing it. So if there are any issues with these two speaker options with my current Optimus receiver, PLEASE SAY SOMETHING. Hell, if these 2 options just straight up suck, give me some other recommendations! I want a set of speakers that can put out a decent bit and still sound clear and balanced.... kudos if it can also push out some nice bass frequencies

Alright, sorry for the novel. I wanted to provide as much info as I could... help me help you. I'm sure I'll still get some trolls, but that's ok haha

ANY advice and second opinions would be very much appreciated

PS, I've recently acquired White Stripes "Elephant", Black Keys "Thickfreakness", Beatles "Abbey Road" and "Rubber Soul". Just to provide some context as to what I'm trying to listen to.

I'm done now, thanks in advance for all the help
Cheers

 

[pewternhrata]

Id look into boston acoustic A series speakers. Can usually find deals on eBay Craigslist and such. I have a pair of a120s and enjoy them with my vinyl. (Id like a150 or a400) Id look at a new stylus unless you know how new it is, worn out it can cause damage to your records. I prefer grado but probably wouldn't notice too much different from an audio technica or shure. Need to gauge the tracking force and anti skate. Check out needledoctor.
For a simple setup the receiver you have should work while upgrading the rest of your equipment.
I have a simple setup for records and I prefer to keep it that way, turn tables get very expensive, a lot of upkeep and care to ensure the best sound. I have some 1st press 1st edition vinyl that I'm paranoid to play, don't want to ruin them with my cheap table. For the best sound I can get, I play cds on my svs ultras.

 

[lovinthehd]

Try a pair of Philharmonic's Affordable Accuracy speakers. Very well regarded here, especially for the price.

 

[Pogre]

Try a pair of Philharmonic's Affordable Accuracy speakers. Very well regarded here, especially for the price.

I talked a friend of mine into getting a pair. He loves them. Great speaker. Especially at this price range.

 

[Coat2017]

@pewternhrata
I just checked out the Boston Acoustic A Series bookshelves and they are in my price range EACH on Amazon... But I did just find some BA-A40s for only 40 bucks on Craigslist..... thoughts? Think they should do well for my setup? Looks like the surround has some cracking, maybe not worth my time? [see attached]
I did read some reviews on their "Classic" series also
I may need to replace the stylus, as I have zero clue how old/used it is. Something tells me it was not updated, as this was in an attic for who knows how long. When I google my Kenwood stylus replacement, I get top hits for the ION brand. Would any one not recommend those? I'm not seeing compatible styluses for my model from AT or Shure...
Can you elaborate a bit more on how/why to "gauge the tracking force and anti skate"? I know how to USE each of these adjusters, but still a little unsure of when to know when the tracking force and anti skate settings are "correct", or in an ideal position for playback. Any suggestions?

@lovinthehd and @Pogre
I just checked that link... VERY COOL line... AND they donate $50 to the Philharmonic Orchestra... pretty awesome. I've never heard of these, I'm interested. Definitely going to do some reading up on those, good call.

 

[lovinthehd]

Are you looking to replace the cartridge or just the stylus? What cartridge is on the unit now?

 

[TLS Guy]

Are you looking to replace the cartridge or just the stylus? What cartridge is on the unit now?

Those Kenwood turntables used to come with a Kenwood cartridge, which was a very nasty cartridge indeed. It was one of the worst sounding cartridges I ever heard. If it has that cartridge a new one is definitely in order.

 

[lovinthehd]

Those Kenwood turntables used to come with a Kenwood cartridge, which was a very nasty cartridge indeed. It was one of the worst sounding cartridges I ever heard. If it has that cartridge a new one is definitely in order.

I suspected as much from the "replacement stylus" I found using the tt model....

 

[Coat2017]

So I took a look this morning at the TT and cartridge... I HAVE NO IDEA haha
There are no markings, numbers, anything to identify what kind of cartridge it is. Am I missing something?
Again, wouldn't be surprised if it's the original Kenwood cartridge.
As far as compatibility goes, any one have a suggested model? @pewternhrata, you mentioned AT or Shure. Do they have any compatible models for this TT?
@lovinthehd @TLS Guy, any ideas on some good upgrades?

 

[TLS Guy]

This Shure.

This Ortofon.

Or this Audio Technica.

And that would actually be my pecking order.

 

[Coat2017]

@TLS Guy, thanks for these options!

At this point, since the TT isn't new or THAT amazing, would one even suggest spending money on a new/"better" cart at this point? Something tells me I should focus on better speakers first. Then if I'm still hearing poor quality, move on to a new cart or TT?
I know every piece is as important as the next in a system like this. But, I'm starting from scratch and I KNOW the speakers are not up to par.

Am I being too naive here, or is this respectable?

 

[TLS Guy]

@TLS Guy, thanks for these options!

At this point, since the TT isn't new or THAT amazing, would one even suggest spending money on a new/"better" cart at this point? Something tells me I should focus on better speakers first. Then if I'm still hearing poor quality, move on to a new cart or TT?
I know every piece is as important as the next in a system like this. But, I'm starting from scratch and I KNOW the speakers are not up to par.

Am I being too naive here, or is this respectable?

The trouble is those bad cartridges do permanent damage to the discs with every play. I would make cartridge change the highest priority.

 

[Coat2017]

crap.... alright. Hey, whatever I have to do make this happen!
I'm actually having luck on Amazon with these 3. Reading some reviews, doing some homework. The Shure does sound like the best bang for the buck. These options are definitely compatible? I have no way of confirming, I'm not up to speed with cart specs

I'll have to research HOW to replace this once I receive it... I have a lot of learning to do haha

 

[lovinthehd]

Looks like you have the standard 1/2" mount for a cartridge on your tone arm, there are also some choices below the price points suggested, but would still be an improvement over your stock cartridge (which it does sound like is installed now). I use the Shure M97xE myself.

Before you go diving into all of this, just why are you starting with vinyl? You already had a collection? What was it played on before?

 

[Coat2017]

Looks like you have the standard 1/2" mount for a cartridge on your tone arm, there are also some choices below the price points suggested, but would still be an improvement over your stock cartridge (which it does sound like is installed now). I use the Shure M97xE myself.

Before you go diving into all of this, just why are you starting with vinyl? You already had a collection? What was it played on before?

@lovinthehd,
Do you have some recommendations of cheaper cartridges, but still considered an upgrade for what I'm currently running? Do you like the Shure?
I know the TT I have isn't top of the line or anything, but it sounds like the cartridge upgrade is definitely the place to start as far as my upgrades go.
If the majority consensus still recommends the Shure, even with the TT it would be installed in, hell I'm all for it! If spending 100 bucks will very much improve the sound I want, I call that a payoff. That's worth it.
But if there is something cheaper, that will have the same result as the Shure with the equipment at hand, I'd obviously prefer to spend less if the result is the same.
So do you think there will be a significant difference between some that you might suggest and the Shure for my current TT?

And as for WHY? .... great question lol
I'm VERY much into music and production, and for most of my life I just kept continuously trying to improve the way I listen. After CDs started fading away, I hopped on the band wagon and started streaming and downloading, basically went full digital. Everything is relative, so at the time, that was good enough for me. Then within the past couple of years, there was something about opening up a new CD, putting it in a player, and listening from beginning to end.... the way it was meant to be from day one. So I started collecting CDs again. And of course, now they're pretty dirt cheap from ebay to a local shop. I bought a nice LG hifi stereo from best buy, and at the time was my peak sound quality experience.
Then it hit me... a hifi stereo system setup will provide the best quality sound, provided all the components worked well together and did the job right (and the nostalgia of old school equipment.... prime). Last year is when the drive started. I had no idea where to start and luckily just ran into someone who was able to steer me in the right direction. I knew that vinyl/certain records contained some of the greatest recording quality, and REALLY wanted to hear it for myself.

I get it, I'm no where near that quality yet. But that's my reasoning, and it's the fun part; learning and upgrading until one day, those clouds split and sun rays beam down and all is right with the world and I smile and say.... "there it is." I know I'm new to all this, but I do consider myself an audiophile at heart, so I'm pushing until my perfect sound is found.
Not to mention the culture of owning, playing, sharing records is better than anything found in the digital world IMO

Ok, now feel free to break that all down and call me crazy
Cheers

 

[lovinthehd]

@lovinthehd,
Do you have some recommendations of cheaper cartridges, but still considered an upgrade for what I'm currently running? Do you like the Shure?
I know the TT I have isn't top of the line or anything, but it sounds like the cartridge upgrade is definitely the place to start as far as my upgrades go.
If the majority consensus still recommends the Shure, even with the TT it would be installed in, hell I'm all for it! If spending 100 bucks will very much improve the sound I want, I call that a payoff. That's worth it.
But if there is something cheaper, that will have the same result as the Shure with the equipment at hand, I'd obviously prefer to spend less if the result is the same.
So do you think there will be a significant difference between some that you might suggest and the Shure for my current TT?

And as for WHY? .... great question lol
I'm VERY much into music and production, and for most of my life I just kept continuously trying to improve the way I listen. After CDs started fading away, I hopped on the band wagon and started streaming and downloading, basically went full digital. Everything is relative, so at the time, that was good enough for me. Then within the past couple of years, there was something about opening up a new CD, putting it in a player, and listening from beginning to end.... the way it was meant to be from day one. So I started collecting CDs again. And of course, now they're pretty dirt cheap from ebay to a local shop. I bought a nice LG hifi stereo from best buy, and at the time was my peak sound quality experience.
Then it hit me... a hifi stereo system setup will provide the best quality sound, provided all the components worked well together and did the job right (and the nostalgia of old school equipment.... prime). Last year is when the drive started. I had no idea where to start and luckily just ran into someone who was able to steer me in the right direction. I knew that vinyl/certain records contained some of the greatest recording quality, and REALLY wanted to hear it for myself.

I get it, I'm no where near that quality yet. But that's my reasoning, and it's the fun part; learning and upgrading until one day, those clouds split and sun rays beam down and all is right with the world and I smile and say.... "there it is." I know I'm new to all this, but I do consider myself an audiophile at heart, so I'm pushing until my perfect sound is found.
Not to mention the culture of owning, playing, sharing records is better than anything found in the digital world IMO

Ok, now feel free to break that all down and call me crazy
Cheers

If you're serious about vinyl I'd look beyond your current tt, vinyl can be expensive in this sense . Maybe something lower in the lineup from Shure (M92E perhaps) or a Grado Prestige model....but the savings aren't huge over the suggested cartridges either.

Some vinyl can be quite good but personally I wouldn't start there these days, altho I still have and use my tt and record collection I haven't bought new vinyl in years. Your speakers would be better ways of improving audio quality rather than reviving an old cheap record player....

 

[Coat2017]

If you're serious about vinyl I'd look beyond your current tt, vinyl can be expensive in this sense . Maybe something lower in the lineup from Shure (M92E perhaps) or a Grado Prestige model....but the savings aren't huge over the suggested cartridges either.

Some vinyl can be quite good but personally I wouldn't start there these days, altho I still have and use my tt and record collection I haven't bought new vinyl in years. Your speakers would be better ways of improving audio quality rather than reviving an old cheap record player....

Ugh, this sounds like fixing up a house, there's always going to be something that needs upgraded lol I guess my issue is knowing where to start.
First I'm thinking it's the speakers, then it most likely is the cartridge... now I'm second guessing my turn table all together haha
It all comes down to personal preference I guess, and funds. Cheapest upgrade would be a cartridge first, so maybe I should just try and see how much better it sounds....

But then again, is it NOT recommended to upgrade a cartridge on an older TT, even though it's running fine? It has the anti skate and tracking force dials, the wiring is solid, the face of the table is smooth and has a balanced spin... I would have assumed replacing the TT all together would be last on the list of 3 upgrades... thoughts?
I mean, worst case, after some other upgrades, the TT is now subpar... Couldn't I just take out that new cartridge and either reuse in newer TT or sell? Idk, just trying to think through all of this before any purchases.

Seriously though, thank you all for your continuous input. This has so far been extremely helpful, I'm learning quite a bit
THANK YOU

 

[lovinthehd]

Vinyl and fixing up a house no doubt have some parallels

Yes, a new cartridge can follow to a better tt. Whether it's a significantly audible upgrade...let us know. As to whether the tracking force is accurate, how did you determine that? Anti-skating can be nebulous, but if you search there are some ideas on how to check it. If you're not hearing pitch variations then perhaps it runs at a proper speed but what is the condition of the belt? Just remember that was just a relatively cheap record player even when new....

The media in this case will likely be the greater expense, so up to you whether it's worthwhile spending any more than you already have, as I said personally I wouldn't bother going this route and stick to cd or downloaded digital files. Not as much tactile involvement, but getting up to change sides of a record isn't high on my list of "fun" in any case.

I'd still concentrate on speakers primarily, that would be the better route for better audio now.

 

[Coat2017]

Vinyl and fixing up a house no doubt have some parallels

Yes, a new cartridge can follow to a better tt. Whether it's a significantly audible upgrade...let us know. As to whether the tracking force is accurate, how did you determine that? Anti-skating can be nebulous, but if you search there are some ideas on how to check it. If you're not hearing pitch variations then perhaps it runs at a proper speed but what is the condition of the belt? Just remember that was just a relatively cheap record player even when new....

The media in this case will likely be the greater expense, so up to you whether it's worthwhile spending any more than you already have, as I said personally I wouldn't bother going this route and stick to cd or downloaded digital files. Not as much tactile involvement, but getting up to change sides of a record isn't high on my list of "fun" in any case.

I'd still concentrate on speakers primarily, that would be the better route for better audio now.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it!

Good point though, I can't really confirm the accuracy of the tracking force. I watched a video online on HOW, but can't know for sure if it "worked" haha [oh, how tedious]. But I do plan on educating myself more on it, so that will come with time.
The only time I heard any pitch variations was when I threw on a 45 without the adapter, trying to eyeball the center, and played it.... so yeah, user error at its finest haha obviously learned my lesson after that one.
I removed the platter cover to see how dirty it was underneath out of curiosity, and saw the belt for the first time. It actually does seem to have held its shape and form. No [obvious] wear and looks smooth. Very clean, surprisingly after how many years in an attic.
I know I'll have to upgrade the TT down the road, no doubt. But yea, one thing at a time *thumbs up*

Since the cartridge is the cheapest option, I'm thinking I'm going to start there. Again, trial and error, it's worth a shot if it has even the slightest chance on improving sound quality. That's the game I'm playing

I'll absolutely still be rocking out to my CDs and Spotify, but some of these vinyls have already blown me away (White Stripes "Elephant" being a heavy hitter) and I really dig the tones from the record.

I guess I still have some decision making on what speakers still... nowhere near 100% sold, SO many options. Pros and Cons are so balanced on all of my top runners... all good, time will tell.

I guess I'll check back once I get this new cartridge in. Going with the Shure M97xE, as it seems to be the best for that price AND a standard mount. Fingers crossed ladies and gents

In the mean time, KEEP THROWING SOME SPEAKER SUGGESTIONS MY WAY!

CHEERS

 

[pewternhrata]

I judge the force on mine by balancing the tone arm with the cartridge installed at the "0" setting, if it balances I know the "0" is true and I will then set the correct weight on the dial, anti skate I will set to the weight...on the p mount styles this seems to be pretty close to spot on. Also check the recommended weight for the cartridge, again simple p mounts are almost all the same