Audioquest Cables

[Strum und Drang]

Some more puke worthy quotes...

"Ideally, every component in your system—including cables and interconnects—should be absolutely neutral, imposing no sonic signature of its own. Since this is never the case, you’re forced to select cables and interconnects with colorations that counteract the rest of your system’s colorations. For example, if your system is a little on the bright and analytical side, mellow-sounding interconnects and cables can take the edge off the treble and make listening to music more enjoyable. If the bass is overpowering and heavy, lean- and tight-sounding interconnects and cables can firm it up. A system lacking palpability and presence in the midrange may benefit from a forward-sounding cable."

"Some mega-priced cable is, however, worth the high cost of admission, particularly in a state-of-the-art system. It makes little sense to invest six figures in an audio system and compromise it with anything less than the best cables and interconnects. In the legitimately high-priced cable, you’re paying not just for the parts and labor cost to make the cable, but for the intellectual property garnered from decades of research into cable design."

Click

This stuff is not just limited to "magazines" (i.e. Audioquest's promotion bureau) but goes on all the time on other forums. At the Polk Audio Forum, there is currently a thread about "are my silver cables too bright." There is another discussion on recommending a good coax cable, apparently those that cost a small fortune do a better job of transmitting 1s and 0s. At that forum they promote MIT and other exotic cables. Some are experts in matching the right exotic cable with certain brands of amps. Many turn their noses up at Emotiva amps.

 

[lovinthehd]

This stuff is not just limited to "magazines" (i.e. Audioquest's promotion bureau) but goes on all the time on other forums. At the Polk Audio Forum, there is currently a thread about "are my silver cables too bright." There is another discussion on recommending a good coax cable, apparently those that cost a small fortune do a better job of transmitting 1s and 0s. At that forum they promote MIT and other exotic cables. Some are experts in matching the right exotic cable with certain brands of amps. Many turn their noses up at Emotiva amps.

Sad.

 

[Bucknekked]

This stuff is not just limited to "magazines" (i.e. Audioquest's promotion bureau) but goes on all the time on other forums. At the Polk Audio Forum, there is currently a thread about "are my silver cables too bright." There is another discussion on recommending a good coax cable, apparently those that cost a small fortune do a better job of transmitting 1s and 0s. At that forum they promote MIT and other exotic cables. Some are experts in matching the right exotic cable with certain brands of amps. Many turn their noses up at Emotiva amps.

Strum and Drang:
I have a tough enough time with the mostly factual and mostly referencable opinions that get expressed on the AH forum. I would probably have a stroke if I had to read about the exotic cables as fact crowd speaking on even terms with folks who understand physics.

I have a friend who just dropped $25K on a Gryphon Diablo 300 amplifier. He would never consider the Emotiva stuff quite frankly because it just doesn't cost enough. He will be considering his high end cabling options while he waits for his amp to be built. We have had a number of snake oil conversations. I think it is almost a losing conversation to point out the obvious.

 

[NINaudio]

I have a friend who just dropped $25K on a Gryphon Diablo 300 amplifier. He would never consider the Emotiva stuff quite frankly because it just doesn't cost enough. He will be considering his high end cabling options while he waits for his amp to be built. We have had a number of snake oil conversations. I think it is almost a losing conversation to point out the obvious.

That IS kinda sexy for an amp though...

 

[rojo]

Strum and Drang:
I have a tough enough time with the mostly factual and mostly referencable opinions that get expressed on the AH forum. I would probably have a stroke if I had to read about the exotic cables as fact crowd speaking on even terms with folks who understand physics.

I have a friend who just dropped $25K on a Gryphon Diablo 300 amplifier. He would never consider the Emotiva stuff quite frankly because it just doesn't cost enough. He will be considering his high end cabling options while he waits for his amp to be built. We have had a number of snake oil conversations. I think it is almost a losing conversation to point out the obvious.

Ah well. As the saying goes, never argue with an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.

I have a hard time understanding the sort of person who sorts by price: high to low. Don't they enjoy the sport of bargain hunting even a little?

 

[Bucknekked]

Ah well. As the saying goes, never argue with an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.

I have a hard time understanding the sort of person who sorts by price: high to low. Don't they enjoy the sport of bargain hunting even a little?

Me too.

 

[Strum und Drang]

They do bargain hunting! One forum member currently is unloading over $5,000 in MIT cables and other audiophool stuff at 1/3 to 1/5 off regular retail. This guy is raising money for his daughter's wedding this summer. Many are big fans of buying used exotic cables from other forum members or Craig's list, Ebay, etc. One forum member recommended that I buy some speaker wires that cost more than my mid fi Polk Audio speakers.

Most of the long time leading members of the Polk Audio forum have drank the exotic cable snake oil kool aide and have had an exotic cable religious conversion. Some members do recommend starting with high quality regular audio cables by Blue Jeans Cables or Douglas Connections. This is the first step they promote for getting people to drink the cable kool aide. To object to their mass hysteria only leads to arguments and eventually getting banned from the forum. They will gang up on anyone that questions their religion.

 

[shadyJ]

The funny thing about that sort of attitude in a Polk forum is that I wouldn't have guessed that Polk speakers are geared toward that sort of crowd at all. They are mostly what I call 'mid-fi' speakers, basically just competently-built and affordably-priced speakers that are targeting the bestbuy demographic. Their cheap speakers are meh, they middle range speakers are OK, and their high-end stuff is pretty good, but their most expensive speaker is still only $2k, which is not really the kind of speaker these crazy cables are intended for. You would see these components on a $60K Wilson Audio system, not Polk.

So my question is, if that is the attitude of the crowd who frequents the Polk forums, what is going on with them? Do they not realize where they are posting in? There are message boards that deal in exotic, dodgy equipment of that type, so why are they hanging around Polk?

 

[rojo]

The funny thing about that sort of attitude in a Polk forum is that I wouldn't have guessed that Polk speakers are geared toward that sort of crowd at all. They are mostly what I call 'mid-fi' speakers, basically just competently-built and affordably-priced speakers that are targeting the bestbuy demographic. Their cheap speakers are meh, they middle range speakers are OK, and their high-end stuff is pretty good, but their most expensive speaker is still only $2k, which is not really the kind of speaker these crazy cables are intended for. You would see these components on a $60K Wilson Audio system, not Polk.

So my question is, if that is the attitude of the crowd who frequents the Polk forums, what is going on with them? Do they not realize where they are posting in? There are message boards that deal in exotic, dodgy equipment of that type, so why are they hanging around Polk?

Sounds to me like the Polk Audio forums have lower participation from the well-informed. In the absence of well-reasoned opposition, the shills and audiophools were allowed to gain a foot hold and have dug in like ticks. Here, we put a stop to that before it ever starts. Let this be a reminder of why we feed the trolls. If ignored, they could invade and flourish. The Polk Audio forums are a cautionary tale of woe and despair.

 

[eljr]

Sounds to me like the Polk Audio forums have lower participation from the well-informed. In the absence of well-reasoned opposition, the shills and audiophools were allowed to gain a foot hold and have dug in like ticks. Here, we put a stop to that poop before it ever starts. Let this be a reminder of why we feed the trolls. If ignored, they could invade and flourish. The Polk Audio forums are a cautionary tale of woe and despair.

and posts like this are more meaningful than those of those you castigate?

Quick question, do you think you sound educated or are imparting this "well-reasoned opposition?"

Funny thing is, I read this post as trolling if ever there was a troll post.

i guess it's all perspective.

peace brother

 

[rojo]

and posts like this are more meaningful than those of those you castigate?

Quick question, do you think you sound educated or are imparting this "well-reasoned opposition?"

Funny thing is, I read this post as trolling if ever there was a troll post.

i guess it's all perspective.

peace brother

Easy, @eljr. Set phasers to stun, please. I meant no harm. You know when I said "Let this be a reminder of why we feed the trolls," I wasn't referring to recent discussion in this thread, right? I was talking about the Nordost thread and others like it, and why we refuse to indulge mysticism and opinions that contradict science. I'm struggling to understand the reason for your criticism here.

 

[eljr]

Easy, @eljr. I'm struggling to understand the reason for your criticism here.

My post did not speak to which camp is more correct, it spoke to the tone of the message. The belittling, name calling and self promoting, not to mention the vulgarity I found it,as I said, not educated or well reasoned opposition.

yeah, I know, everyone does it...

 

[Mikado463]

My post did not speak to which camp is more correct, it spoke to the tone of the message. The belittling, name calling and self promoting, not to mention the vulgarity I found it,as I said, not educated or well reasoned opposition.

yeah, I know, everyone does it...

that is how I read your post as well ........

 

[Pogre]

and posts like this are more meaningful than those of those you castigate?

Quick question, do you think you sound educated or are imparting this "well-reasoned opposition?"

Funny thing is, I read this post as trolling if ever there was a troll post.

i guess it's all perspective.

peace brother

Indeed. I'm not in the least bit offended by that post. I actually found it amusing and rooted in truth.

I guess it's all perspective.

 

[Bucknekked]

In the absence of well-reasoned opposition, the shills and audiophools were allowed to gain a foot hold and have dug in like ticks. .

Rojo:
I read your post and enjoyed it immensely. "dug in like ticks" is a great visual metaphor.
The "well reasoned opposition" (to cable audiophoolery) is often on display here at AH. I have learned a great deal of supported, documented and well reasoned information about cables on AH. I save the papers and documents and articles. I have saved the price of a new BMW in just the avoidance of cable nonsense.

and posts like this are more meaningful than those of those you castigate?
Quick question, do you think you sound educated or are imparting this "well-reasoned opposition?"

If rojo won't say it, I'll say it : Yeah, posts like this are more meaningful than the audiophool posts about mystical cables. Not every post with an idea that is in opposition to yet another idea needs to be expressed in scholarly terms or footnoted and peer reviewed. I detected no meanness in rojo's post. He wasn't denegrating anyone on the AH for a post on AH. He was poking a silly idea proposed on another forum for what it is: audiophoolery. That's completely legal and in between the lines.

 

[rojo]

Alright, alright, the thread is getting off track. @eljr and I can discuss further in PM if he wishes, but this discussion is going in an inappropriate direction.

I save the papers and documents and articles. I have saved the price of a new BMW in just the avoidance of cable nonsense.

Speaking of cable nonsense, have you seen the comparison between Monster Cable XP vs. aluminum foil? Or Monster Cable vs. coat hangers?

 

[Bucknekked]

They do bargain hunting! One forum member currently is unloading over $5,000 in MIT cables and other audiophool stuff at 1/3 to 1/5 off regular retail.

That post and idea made me laugh. Again. The idea that one is saving money by buying used snake oil is probably funnier (and sadder at the same time) than buying them at full price (plus tax). Truly, if you buy used snake oil, are you not buying just for the brand label and its cachet?

I wonder if they would still buy them if they knew that the directional metallic transmission in the left and right cables was no longer guaranteed after the original owner? The cables need to be recertified and go through the cryonic phase adjustment period again. Everyone knows that.

 

[eljr]

Indeed. I'm not in the least bit offended by that post. I actually found it amusing and rooted in truth.

I guess it's all perspective.

I don't accept that kind of language in conversation. Weather I agree with them or not.

It's validity, or lack of, is of no consequence.

Rojo:
I read your post and enjoyed it immensely. "dug in like ticks" is a great visual metaphor.
The "well reasoned opposition" (to cable audiophoolery) is often on display here at AH. I have learned a great deal of supported, documented and well reasoned information about cables on AH. I save the papers and documents and articles. I have saved the price of a new BMW in just the avoidance of cable nonsense.



If rojo won't say it, I'll say it : Yeah, posts like this are more meaningful than the audiophool posts about mystical cables. Not every post with an idea that is in opposition to yet another idea needs to be expressed in scholarly terms or footnoted and peer reviewed. I detected no meanness in rojo's post. He wasn't denegrating anyone on the AH for a post on AH. He was poking a silly idea proposed on another forum for what it is: audiophoolery. That's completely legal and in between the lines.

I learned long ago that tribal bonding trumps debate and/or decorum, especially in 2017.

 

[Bucknekked]

Speaking of cable nonsense, have you seen the comparison between Monster Cable XP vs. aluminum foil? Or Monster Cable vs. coat hangers?

I had heard of the coat hanger test, but never seen the details quoted. The other one, using tin foil, I had not seen. to quote "aka Transparent Self-Positioning Speaker Wire Levitation Ribbon from the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing company." That's tin foil described in true audiophool fashion.

I saved it in my group of cable articles for future reference. I enjoy the reading because it keeps both of my feet firmly on the ground. I have an education in electronics. I spent a lot of years with hands on in repairing electronic equipment. Fancy cables make no sense to me given what they do.

I was thinking about it last night and it occured to me that fancy cables to "tune" a system are like some of these movies with gigantic plot holes in them. The hero in these movies goes to ridiculous lengths to solve a problem that a 5th grader could solve in 10 minutes because of plot holes. Using cables to tune a system is a movie plot hole. An enormous stretch to solve a problem (if there is a problem with brightness, or bass, or poor midrange) with cables when there are devices and methods designed to handle the condition on purpose. Good posts. Thank you.

 

[slipperybidness]

I had heard of the coat hanger test, but never seen the details quoted. The other one, using tin foil, I had not seen. to quote "aka Transparent Self-Positioning Speaker Wire Levitation Ribbon from the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing company." That's tin foil described in true audiophool fashion.

I saved it in my group of cable articles for future reference. I enjoy the reading because it keeps both of my feet firmly on the ground. I have an education in electronics. I spent a lot of years with hands on in repairing electronic equipment. Fancy cables make no sense to me given what they do.

I was thinking about it last night and it occured to me that fancy cables to "tune" a system are like some of these movies with gigantic plot holes in them. The hero in these movies goes to ridiculous lengths to solve a problem that a 5th grader could solve in 10 minutes because of plot holes. Using cables to tune a system is a movie plot hole. An enormous stretch to solve a problem (if there is a problem with brightness, or bass, or poor midrange) with cables when there are devices and methods designed to handle the condition on purpose. Good posts. Thank you.

Classic argument for the engineering crowd (i.e. the anti-snake oil crowd): IF cables really made a difference, then you would also need these magic cables for your measurement equipment! How many audio labs buy into snake oil for the measuring gear? NONE!

Similar argument, if the cables were critical, then medical equipment would also have the best available.