Beginner Seeking Advice about Starting Out

[Isaac52]

I was wondering if you guys could give me any advice on what kind of speakers I should get. I know that's really general so I'll try to describe my situation to help. Sorry for how long this post is; I underlined my three main questions to make it easier to follow and to answer.

My family had a pair of KLH 4001 speakers that they had offered to give me for free. I did some research and KLH doesn't seem to be reputed as a good-quality brand. Also after listening to the speakers I found that both woofers and at least one of the tweeters would need to be replaced. I'm assuming fixing speakers isn't something that one should do? I'm an electrical engineering student and I've soldered wires before; I'm just figured that it would be nearly impossible to find replacement drivers that would have the same specs, ohms, cutoffs, etc. and it would all sound terrible even with EQ adjustments. Oh and the speakers are at least 25 years old so things will only keep breaking.

If getting a new speaker set is the best option, what would you suggest? My budget is really small at this point in my life; preferably less than $500 and even better would be around $200-300 give or take which is really cheap I know). A friend has offered to give me an expensive amplifier (sorry I don't know the model number right now) for a 2.0 system, so my initial thought was to look for speakers like the ones my family owned to go with that amp. I've read that a lot of people start their audio systems with used speakers (off craigslist for example) but I have no idea what brand I should get or how to narrow them down when there's so many suggestions out there. I do care a lot about the audio quality (I prefer crisp and clean sound, and a frequency response that reaches below 50, and bass that is not boomy or bloated (i.e. no Bose). Usually listen from flacs, only use mp3 if I have to.). I probably care too much for the budget I'm under.

The other question I have is, do floor-standing speaker sets with 12-in woofers and such always sound better and fuller than smaller speakers? Are these things out of my budget range, and should I be looking into computer speakers instead? I've always thought computer speakers wouldn't sound nearly as good as a good bigger speaker because of size and physics. Besides if I already have a good amp for free I figured I might as well buy bigger speakers to go with it.

Thanks for reading this long post, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

 

[lovinthehd]

Welcome to the forum. I think you summed it up well enough as to repairing those old speakers. KLH was a very good brand in it's day, though it's been a while since then; it was founded by Henry Kloss. Would help to know just what the amp is. How big is your room, how far away from the speakers will you sit?

You have any aiy/diy skills to save some money? Might look at some of the kits at diysoundgroup.com like the Fusion Tempest 12

 

[Isaac52]

I wish I knew the exact specs of the amp, but I probably won't be able to get that information for a few days. There is a much cheaper amp at my house I was using to drive my family's speakers. It's also 25 years old; it's a "TEAC AG-75 AM/FM Stereo Receiver." I don't know very much about amplifiers.

I'd be using the speakers in an apartment-sized living room. Probably be sitting no more than 9 feet away.

I've sautered wires before, and I replaced the stock radio in my car, so I've done a few diy stuff before. Nothing too complex though.

 

[lovinthehd]

Be interesting to see what the amp is capable of in terms of impedance load and power, speaker selection can be affected.

The TEAC is a receiver. Amps come in flavors, power amp (where you need a separate pre-amp unit), an integrated amp (combines a pre-amp and amp with some switching capabilities) and a receiver (an integrated amp with radio/internet features). Hopfully it's not a power amp that you will need other gear to use it...

As to bookshelf/floor standing it will depend on the particular speaker, you will probably get better value in a bookshelf speaker. These are well recommended by several forum members and are a bargain to boot (and I built the kit they're based on and even without the reworked crossover are nice speakers, altho I did buy the crossovers from them and plan to build a set with those later) http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html.

Try this article for tower/floor standers in your price range http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/500-pair-tower-speaker-round-up

If you want active speakers (those with their own amps built-in as many computer speakers are) I'd think about these http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series/lsr308....

 

[Isaac52]

Thanks! I'll read those articles and let you know if I have more questions.

 

[Isaac52]

The philharmonic audio ones intrigue me, partly because they are smaller than I would have thought. Is bigger not always better when it comes to better quality sound? They seem like they would be nice and not take up a lot of space. Do they require assembly? You said you assembled yours but the link seemed to imply they came assembled.

 

[lovinthehd]

The philharmonic audio ones intrigue me, partly because they are smaller than I would have thought. Is bigger not always better when it comes to better quality sound? They seem like they would be nice and not take up a lot of space. Do they require assembly? You said you assembled yours but the link seemed to imply they came assembled.

Yes, Dennis Murphy (guy behind Philharmonic and a forum member here) sells the completed speakers, no assembly required (unless you buy the BR-1 kit at Parts-Express.com like I did, but you would get to solder your own crossovers that way...but I think Dennis bought 'em all ).

Bigger can be good but it isn't necessarily good. You can put junky cabinets together with cheap drivers and crossover and it might be large but not good. Larger woofers can be good, though but I use subwoofers with both bookshelves and towers (different systems). I think for your living room description the AA speakers would do well. They may need to take some space for proper positioning, though....might even want to think about stands.

 

[Isaac52]

So the AA ones Dennis sells would have the crossover built in? Would I save any money by doing it myself or not enough to make it worth the effort?

Also, the AAs wouldn't need a sub with them? Or do you use a sub? The receiver or amp that my friend has can't drive a sub.

 

[lovinthehd]

So the AA ones Dennis sells would have the crossover built in? Would I save any money by doing it myself or not enough to make it worth the effort?

Also, the AAs wouldn't need a sub with them? Or do you use a sub? The receiver or amp that my friend has can't drive a sub.

Yes, Dennis takes the BR-1 kit and uses his own redesigned crossovers for them (and installs them). I bought a separate set of his AA crossovers for my BR-1s but I glued in the ones I put together too well, so decided instead to just make a new set of my own with my own cabinets using the same drivers.....sorry if I made that confusing. I think Dennis would sell you a set of the components to build the crossovers but for the price of the completed speakers I wouldn't bother; I took him up on assembly for the set of crossovers I bought.

For your stated frequency range requirements the AAs will work. I prefer to support them with a sub (and do). The receiver/amp would only need to provide a sub pre-out for the sub's amp, preferably with bass management built-in (an electronic crossover for the speakers-to-sub, most modern audio video receivers have such). A normal receiver/integrated amp usually doesn't have a sufficient amp section for a passive sub, tho.

 

[shadyJ]

One thing to consider in $500 is a pair of clearance RBH R55Ti towers. They look nice, and they will have much more bass capability then a bookshelf speakers, and more dynamic range as well. That is what I would do in that budget.

 

[2channel lover]

The philharmonic audio ones intrigue me, partly because they are smaller than I would have thought. Is bigger not always better when it comes to better quality sound? They seem like they would be nice and not take up a lot of space. Do they require assembly? You said you assembled yours but the link seemed to imply they came assembled.

Welcome to the forum...I've gotten great advice here and I expect you will as well.

The Phils are designed/made by Dennis Murphy, a classical musician as well as speaker designer/maker so he has two quality skill sets in play. His work is well respected. I've ordered a pair of Salk Sound speakers, another well respected custom speaker manufacturer. Murphy is highly involved in the design of Salk Sound speakers....you can't go wrong with the Phils.

Book shelf vs Floorstander...I have an admitted bias to floor standing speakers, but taking a cue from Jim Salk to answer this...the quality of the drivers, crossover, cabinet and room ultimately determines the sound quality of a speaker. A book shelf speaker with better parts will sound better than a floor standing speaker with lessor parts. If the drivers, crossovers and cabinets are of equal quality the larger cabinet will normally have a little better output in the mid bass and bass frequencies.

That said, it really sound like you would be better off starting with a good book shelf speaker, like those LTHD suggested...then later on adding a sub when funds permit. Then down the road expand if you want floor standers.

 

[zieglj01]

Have some fun with this
https://www.parts-express.com/tritrix-mtm-tl-speaker-components-and-cabinet-kit-pair--300-702

Or, buy the Philharmonic AA speakers as recommended

 

[Isaac52]

I've always assumed that it's better to start with a flat freq response and then eq it to your preferences, rather than look for a speaker that has your preferences already. Is that assumption totally nonsense? Would the Philharmonic AA speakers stand up to eq-ing? Would it depend on what kind of eq-ing and how it is done (digitally at the source vs. using an eq box, which I don't have)?

Also, wwould I be able to use a sub (if I got one in the future) with the TEAC AG-75 Receiver? Is that receiver something I would need to replace in the future? The one I'm getting from my friend can't drive a sub, I know that. The TEAC has A and B separate 8 ohm lines, and A+B 16 ohm.

 

[lovinthehd]

I prefer a speaker to have as flat a response as possible. The room will have it's effects, tho, but I don't see why you couldn't apply some eq (within reason) to the AA speaker but incorporating some sort of eq beyond the tone controls in the Teac could be difficult. I doubt the TEAC AG-75 has either a sub pre-out nor bass management, but don't see much about it.

 

[Isaac52]

What do you mean by bass management? Does that mean that I can't add a sub to my system without buying a new receiver?

 

[lovinthehd]

What do you mean by bass management? Does that mean that I can't add a sub to my system without buying a new receiver?

Bass management is the application of a crossover (a combination of a high pass filter and a low pass filter) for the speaker-sub combo. Some older units had neither, some only provided a sub pre-out, no bass management; most modern avrs generally provide both. Some subs can accept speaker level connections and apply a true crossover for your speakers (or sometimes even at line level, if your electronics can accept), many subs only offer a low pass filter, which is still workable but not ideal IMO.

Try this article http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup/bass-management-the-right-stuff

 

[Isaac52]

OK, that's confusing. I guess subwoofers are probably out of my budget now anyway, so I won't worry about them. I did some listening to the music I regularly listen to with a high pass filter set to approximate the bass-freq response of the AAMs, and it didn't bother me at all, so I don't think a sub will be necessary, at least not at this point. Maybe one day down the road.

Did a bunch of reading on the web (5 pages of google searching) about the AAMs to see what other websites/people thought of them and I've pretty much only read good things, so I'm definitely leaning towards them at this point.

Questions about the receiver, since I know much less about receivers. Is the receiver strong enough to power the AAMs? Does the TEAC have an amplifier built-in? I don't have a separate amplifier; I just assumed that since the receiver can power the KLH passives, it can power other passives.

 

[2channel lover]

OK, that's confusing. I guess subwoofers are probably out of my budget now anyway, so I won't worry about them. I did some listening to the music I regularly listen to with a high pass filter set to approximate the bass-freq response of the AAMs, and it didn't bother me at all, so I don't think a sub will be necessary, at least not at this point. Maybe one day down the road.

Did a bunch of reading on the web (5 pages of google searching) about the AAMs to see what other websites/people thought of them and I've pretty much only read good things, so I'm definitely leaning towards them at this point.

Questions about the receiver, since I know much less about receivers. Is the receiver strong enough to power the AAMs? Does the TEAC have an amplifier built-in? I don't have a separate amplifier; I just assumed that since the receiver can power the KLH passives, it can power other passives.

Yes, as you assumed it would have to if it's powering the KLH speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

OK, that's confusing. I guess subwoofers are probably out of my budget now anyway, so I won't worry about them. I did some listening to the music I regularly listen to with a high pass filter set to approximate the bass-freq response of the AAMs, and it didn't bother me at all, so I don't think a sub will be necessary, at least not at this point. Maybe one day down the road.

Did a bunch of reading on the web (5 pages of google searching) about the AAMs to see what other websites/people thought of them and I've pretty much only read good things, so I'm definitely leaning towards them at this point.

Questions about the receiver, since I know much less about receivers. Is the receiver strong enough to power the AAMs? Does the TEAC have an amplifier built-in? I don't have a separate amplifier; I just assumed that since the receiver can power the KLH passives, it can power other passives.

Take your time and read and research and ask questions before buying something. Your receiver should be fine to start. What are you testing the hpf on?

 

[Isaac52]

I was testing it with headphones. I have cheap Koss PortaPro headphones, nothing fancy. I just wanted to make sure that the rolloff frequency for the bass didn't cut off any bass guitar notes or cello notes. The speakers that my family had cutoff around 60-65 Hz, and missing notes were more noticeable. (And I did test the headphones to make sure they were themselves able to play the low notes I was listening for.)

I applied the hpf on a digital eq on my laptop.