Newbie to computer audio

[Bucknekked]

Same, and as I've stated, I'm a PC guy but intrigued by the Mac Mini. I this article:
http://www.psaudio.com/ps_how/how-to-build-a-music-server/
the author says that he uses Bit Perfect in order to ensure the signal leaving the computer is unaltered by the computer (and its software?). If I'm reading this correctly, is his issue that he's using iTunes and will using JRiver overcome this and negate the need for Bit Perfect?

I am not exactly sure WTF he is talking about actually in terms of why he needs Bit Perfect in the equation. I use iTunes straightup for library management, playback and ripping. One stop shop. I tried other products for ripping and still have them available but simply don't use them. Why not? Because there's no discernible difference in the final rip. I did a fair number of rip tests. iTunes was solid in this department.

For playback, we easily get in to audiophoolery here with descriptions of how one playback system sounds better than another. Rather than engage in tom foolery, just get a couple options (Jriver, whatever you can snag) and try them out with your ears. I heard zero difference. If you hear a difference, then stick with the one that sounds best to you. Playback doesn't alter a thing, its just pushing tunes out to the amp. The author may have had some technical, but not audible, reason to try Bit Perfect. Dunno.

One thing to keep in mind on this forum, and in others, there are Apple haters aplenty. iTunes is a particularly popular target for the haters. All I can tell you is that I tried other options because the haters said their selections were "better". None of them were audibly better that I could hear. Not easier to use. Not more accurate. But, that won't stop the haters.

The good news is, there are plenty of choices that aren't Apple that work really well. In fact, if you make good choices, no matter what you end up with, its gonna sound great. There's a series of products called a Blue Sound Vault. Really cool stuff. Some of the folks have those too. Do some research, and then start trying things out. I chose Apple Mac Mini and iTunes. Happy as a clam. Others chose differently. Also happy as clams. No worries.

 

[slipperybidness]

@Bucknekked
I'll be honest, I'm an iTunes hater

For me, my needs and wants, etc, ripping with EAC and playback via Foobar does everything I need, and avoids the Evil Empire

I do qualify this by stating that I used iTunes for years, and I was locked into it with my old 20Gb iPod and my iPhone. That's a part of why I hate iTunes/Apple, the way they lock you into their ecosystem! Oh, you want this App on your iPhone? Well, you must update your iPhone to run that App, oh wait, first you have to update iTunes to be able to update your iPhone.........I got tired of that nonsense!

 

[Pogre]

@Bucknekked
I'll be honest, I'm an iTunes hater

For me, my needs and wants, etc, ripping with EAC and playback via Foobar does everything I need, and avoids the Evil Empire

I do qualify this by stating that I used iTunes for years, and I was locked into it with my old 20Gb iPod and my iPhone. That's a part of why I hate iTunes/Apple, the way they lock you into their ecosystem! Oh, you want this App on your iPhone? Well, you must update your iPhone to run that App, oh wait, first you have to update iTunes to be able to update your iPhone.........I got tired of that nonsense!

Any reason you don't use foobar to rip? I'm asking because that's what I did. How about Windows Media? Is this a rabbit hole I dare go down? I'm pretty happy with my rips and playback.

 

[Bucknekked]

@Bucknekked
I'll be honest, I'm an iTunes hater

For me, my needs and wants, etc, ripping with EAC and playback via Foobar does everything I need, and avoids the Evil Empire

I do qualify this by stating that I used iTunes for years, and I was locked into it with my old 20Gb iPod and my iPhone. That's a part of why I hate iTunes/Apple, the way they lock you into their ecosystem! Oh, you want this App on your iPhone? Well, you must update your iPhone to run that App, oh wait, first you have to update iTunes to be able to update your iPhone.........I got tired of that nonsense!

slipperybidness
You my good AH commenting friend get a free pass on Apple dislike because you know how to express your opinion. So many haters just blow chunks and are disagreeable while disagreeing. I don't think I've seen anything from you that isn't expressed well and inside the lines.

Its OK in my opinion to dislike Apple for any of 100 different reasons. That's why you chose the things you did choose to enjoy. I don't knock anybody's choices as a general rule because I know there are so very many viable and workable options out there.

EAC, Foobar, JRiver, and there are a host of others are completely ok with me. I don't need to throw shade on anybody. There are so many cool ways to enjoy our hobby.

 

[Bucknekked]

Any reason you don't use foobar to rip? I'm asking because that's what I did. How about Windows Media? Is this a rabbit hole I dare go down? I'm pretty happy with my rips and playback.

you're safe and in good shape.

You chose well on format and ripper. Nothing's going to be better than a lossless format. No matter how OCD you can get, there's no stone you can look under where there's something "better". Every couple of months I go through an OCD phase where I have to go look and make sure there isn't something "better" or if there is some flaw with the format I chose. So far, so good.

 

[slipperybidness]

@Pogre
I chose EAC due to recs on the AH website. A few years ago when I wanted to rip my CDs, this was the advice that was given to me on here.

EAC is/was a bit of a pain to get set up and configured, but it's tough to argue with FREE
What I like about EAC is that it checks your rip against known-good rips and comes back and says "perfect copy", or if not then it will say "could not verify", or something along those lines, I haven't actually used it in a while.

The GF recently did a bunch of rips with WM. She pretty much got done with it before I realized what she was doing, otherwise I probably would have set her up with something different. But, those "seem" to be good quality rips, but would not have been MY choice by any means.

 

[Pogre]

you're safe and in good shape.

You chose well on format and ripper. Nothing's going to be better than a lossless format. No matter how OCD you can get, there's no stone you can look under where there's something "better". Every couple of months I go through an OCD phase where I have to go look and make sure there isn't something "better" or if there is some flaw with the format I chose. So far, so good.

Thanks Buck. You know what I have too since you helped me get it all set up (thank you)! I've flipped back and forth between my rips and the actual cd's and can't really determine a difference at all. That ocd tho... I do have it. Not enough that I'm convinced to re-rip my entire library. That would be quite a chore.

I gotcha @slipperybidness, you stick with what you know works. Foobar was a little tough getting set up, but I have it down now. It does compare rips to a known database. Mine come back with what I was told are minor, inaudible differences. If I can't tell a difference from the source (cd) I ripped from then I'm going to stop there. Thanks for replying!

 

[ChGr]

Do you put foobar on both your PC and your phone/tablet? And does foobar on the tablet control the foobar on the PC?

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW I use Foobar2000 on my pc after a bad experience with iTunes, and EAC to rip CDs, but use an android app called BubbleUPnP to direct content on my pc or phone to my avr (or other renderer) via wifi/DLNA.

 

[ChGr]

FWIW I use Foobar2000 on my pc after a bad experience with iTunes, and EAC to rip CDs, but use an android app called BubbleUPnP to direct content on my pc or phone to my avr (or other renderer) via wifi/DLNA.

Thanks. It appears, then, that a tablet/phone can't talk directly to a PC - that seemed too good to be true. They have to connect through a router. Now that I look back at the Mac Mini article I see that he connects through a Mac AirPort. I guess that's a router - but if I've got a home network (wireless router, of course), I wouldn't need the AirPort - just ID the devices in the network and get them to talk?

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks. It appears, then, that a tablet/phone can't talk directly to a PC - that seemed too good to be true. They have to connect through a router. Now that I look back at the Mac Mini article I see that he connects through a Mac AirPort. I guess that's a router - but if I've got a home network (wireless router, of course), I wouldn't need the AirPort - just ID the devices in the network and get them to talk?

Yes, when using my phone it, via BubbleUPnP, finds my music on my pc via foobar2000, using it as a library, via my wifi network; not sure how it would "talk" to the pc otherwise....

 

[Bucknekked]

Thanks. It appears, then, that a tablet/phone can't talk directly to a PC - that seemed too good to be true. They have to connect through a router. Now that I look back at the Mac Mini article I see that he connects through a Mac AirPort. I guess that's a router - but if I've got a home network (wireless router, of course), I wouldn't need the AirPort - just ID the devices in the network and get them to talk?

ChGr
Here's an illustration of one aspect of the iTunes/Apple ecosystem making tasks simple.
If you have a Mac Mini, or any computer, running iTunes and an iPad or tablet also running iTunes, you are 90% of the way done. You mentioned having a wireless router in your network already so that's 95% of the task is already done if the PC, tablet or other device running iTunes are on that network.

To use the iPad or tablet as the remote control for iTunes all you need to do is open up iTunes on the PC and turn on the home sharing option. When you do that the iPad "Remote" app will see the shared library. They will do one of those "send a code" "input a code" handshakes and then the iPad becomes a paired remote. Life is wonderful after that.

Just for terminology sake, an Airport or Airport Express, is a wireless router sold by Apple. I suppose there are folks who have them but everyone I know runs regular routers from the popular router vendors. Even Apple fanboys have their limits on buying Apple stuff. I draw the line at network stuff. I have learned a lot about routers this last year and sticking with great routers instead of crappy ones is a good lesson.

 

[ChGr]

ChGr
Here's an illustration of one aspect of the iTunes/Apple ecosystem making tasks simple.
If you have a Mac Mini, or any computer, running iTunes and an iPad or tablet also running iTunes, you are 90% of the way done. You mentioned having a wireless router in your network already so that's 95% of the task is already done if the PC, tablet or other device running iTunes are on that network.

To use the iPad or tablet as the remote control for iTunes all you need to do is open up iTunes on the PC and turn on the home sharing option. When you do that the iPad "Remote" app will see the shared library. They will do one of those "send a code" "input a code" handshakes and then the iPad becomes a paired remote. Life is wonderful after that.

Just for terminology sake, an Airport or Airport Express, is a wireless router sold by Apple. I suppose there are folks who have them but everyone I know runs regular routers from the popular router vendors. Even Apple fanboys have their limits on buying Apple stuff. I draw the line at network stuff. I have learned a lot about routers this last year and sticking with great routers instead of crappy ones is a good lesson.

Yugely helpful - thanks.
Do you happen to know if JRiver will act the same as iTunes (a copy on the Mini and a copy on the iPad performing the handshake and creating a shared library)? I'm leaning toward the Macs for hardware but JRiver for the software.

 

[Bucknekked]

Yugely helpful - thanks.
Do you happen to know if JRiver will act the same as iTunes (a copy on the Mini and a copy on the iPad performing the handshake and creating a shared library)? I'm leaning toward the Macs for hardware but JRiver for the software.

ChGr
I am not a JRiver expert, but I'm going to wager that they have a complementary function with a remote. Doing a quick Google for JRiver and remotes, they have a whole community dedicated to the ipad/tablet control of the app and pumping music on a PC.

Foobar2000 has this functionality and its free. So i'm assuming JRiver, which I believe has a nominal fee for the best version, would also have it. Both of these apps are well regarded, supported, and have forum communities around them.

 

[Bucknekked]

Yugely helpful - thanks.
Do you happen to know if JRiver will act the same as iTunes (a copy on the Mini and a copy on the iPad performing the handshake and creating a shared library)? I'm leaning toward the Macs for hardware but JRiver for the software.

whatever you decide on for software, if you choose a Mac product for the hardware, make sure its supported on Apple. Check the software's forums and user community to see if folks are happy, or pissed off. Normally, in a forum, there's always (always) a certain percentage of the crowd that's pissed off about something. But, is the general sentiment pleased and satisfied or are they universally pissed off?

If you look at one reason a goodly number of people don't like iTunes, its because they were running iTunes on a Windows PC during a timeframe when there were lots of issues and problems. If you looked at the forums during that time, you'd see a lot of angry voices. Now, its pretty good. But, it wasn't always that way. Checking the water before you jump in is always a good idea

 

[slipperybidness]

@Bucknekked I agree 100% on the need for a high quality router! Spend the $ and save the headache!

 

[ChGr]

whatever you decide on for software, if you choose a Mac product for the hardware, make sure its supported on Apple. Check the software's forums and user community to see if folks are happy, or pissed off. Normally, in a forum, there's always (always) a certain percentage of the crowd that's pissed off about something. But, is the general sentiment pleased and satisfied or are they universally pissed off?

If you look at one reason a goodly number of people don't like iTunes, its because they were running iTunes on a Windows PC during a timeframe when there were lots of issues and problems. If you looked at the forums during that time, you'd see a lot of angry voices. Now, its pretty good. But, it wasn't always that way. Checking the water before you jump in is always a good idea

Thanks again for all the input.

Lastly, as I build this media server (small form factor PC) how about CD/DVD external drives for ripping? Should I look for something in particular? A given speed or other spec, a BD ripper vs. DVD vs. CD (-R,+R, etc.)? The Apple brand external CD drive has gotten poor reviews so I'm looking elsewhere.

I'm planning on using an external HD to store my tunes and gravitating toward SSD. But a 2 TB SSD is $750 vs. $75 for standard. Is this way, way, way overkill or just way overkill? Seems to me that, like with any data, the SSD will far surpass the performance of mechanical.

 

[ChGr]

You're good. USB and HDMI on your are almost the same with the exception being HDMI is 24 bit and your USB supports 32 bit. Unless you have 32 bit audio files you aren't gaining anything going over USB. You aren't losing anything either.

OK, not the last question.

I downloaded the trial of JRiver and ripped a song both in mp3 and FLAC and downloaded some other test material in mp3 at 96 kbps and in ALAC. I put them on a flash drive and put into my processor's USB port.

For the song I ripped, the display read 'mp3' and the kbps fluctuated between 124 and 155. The FLAC track read 44.1 kHz.

My question - if I were to play this same material from a computer connected to the processor via HDMI rather than the direct USB, am I losing anything? That is, will the HDMI not transmit as at high a resolution?

Interestingly, we did some blind testing. The wife could consistently accurately pick between the lowest and highest-quality ripped music. I had a tougher time doing so, although I could discern differences in different instruments/passages. She said that the difference she heard was analogous to a full-bodied red compared to a watered-down glass.

 

[panteragstk]

I would honestly try both and see if you notice a difference.

 

[ChGr]

I would honestly try both and see if you notice a difference.

Thanks. I don't think that's an option, though. On this processor the USB port reads only drives - it won't communicate with a PC. I'll have to hook the PC via HDMI.