Playing Multichannel DSD / DSF over DLNA

[Roen]

I currently have a Serviio server setup on my PC, which feeds DSD (and PCM) files to my Yamaha RX-A660. 2ch DSF's are a breeze to listen to.

I recently encountered an iso file that has both stereo and Multichannel tracks. I used SACD_extract to extract the stereo DSF's in one directory and the Multichannel DSF's in another.

The stereo files play over DLNA. In the signal info screen, the info shows up properly as 2.0, DSD64.

However, the Multichannel files refuse to play at all. The receiver sees the file on the server, but I suspect, cannot decode them.

How do people on this forum listen to digital Multichannel DSD files through their receiver?

 

[TLS Guy]

I currently have a Serviio server setup on my PC, which feeds DSD (and PCM) files to my Yamaha RX-A660. 2ch DSF's are a breeze to listen to.

I recently encountered an iso file that has both stereo and Multichannel tracks. I used SACD_extract to extract the stereo DSF's in one directory and the Multichannel DSF's in another.

The stereo files play over DLNA. In the signal info screen, the info shows up properly as 2.0, DSD64.

However, the Multichannel files refuse to play at all. The receiver sees the file on the server, but I suspect, cannot decode them.

How do people on this forum listen to digital Multichannel DSD files through their receiver?

DSD is not PCM and is very difficult to deal with.

Few if any receivers have DSD decoders now. They were more common some years ago.

So that means there are two options. The first is to use the multichannel analog inputs on the receiver or pre pro if it has them.

The other option is to have the player convert the DSD to PCM over HDMI.

You can not extract a DSD file or stream it. That takes an expensive studio.

The two channel on a multi channel SACD is standard CD 16/44.1.

The problem with the analog connection is that there will be no bass management or channel levels setting on the receiver, that must be done in the player. A lot of SACDs are 5.0 and so when going via analog you have to provide external bass management. I have a switch over when using the analog inputs. This is of my own design and construction.

If you convert to PCM, then you loose the "claimed and perceived" advantages of DSD.

There is a final problem the speaker layout for US and Europe is different. In most European mastering the surrounds should be the rear backs of 7.1 and not the surrounds of 5.1. This is easy for the analog connection, but not so easy for multichannel over HDMI.

DSD is a mess. It should never have been introduced. The sooner it finally dies the better, but it continues to hang on because of the myth that PCM can not construct a curve, when in fact you can exactly describe a point on a curve in binary language. The whole mess was created out of ignorance, to which loony audiophools can't resist falling prey to.

Audio only BD should have totally replaced this mess a long time ago.

 

[Roen]

My receiver decodes Stereo DSD fine. It's the multichannel DSD that it has issues with.

I would rather keep my DSD DSD and my PCM PCM. I like my DSD for my perceived distortions to makes to the audio vs. PCM.

I also do not use HDMI as my transport, I use DLNA over my Wifi network to connect the DSD files on my PC to my AVR.

 

[TLS Guy]

My receiver decodes Stereo DSD fine. It's the multichannel DSD that it has issues with.

I would rather keep my DSD DSD and my PCM PCM. I like my DSD for my perceived distortions to makes to the audio vs. PCM.

I also do not use HDMI as my transport, I use DLNA over my Wifi network to connect the DSD files on my PC to my AVR.

What is your receiver? We will see if it has a DSD decoder. I bet it is not decoding DSD, but defaulting to the 2 channel PCM track. If it did have a DSD decoder, it should decode multichannel.

 

[Roen]

Yamaha RX-A660. Comes with a Burr Brown DAC with DSD decoding support.

I am literally streaming a 2 ch DSF file over a wifi connection. There is no PCM coming from the PC.

It's the multichannel DSF that doesn't play, but I found out that's because Serviio, the DLNA server, does not support multichannel DSD.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yamaha RX-A660. Comes with a Burr Brown DAC with DSD decoding support.

I am literally streaming a 2 ch DSF file over a wifi connection. There is no PCM coming from the PC.

It's the multichannel DSF that doesn't play, but I found out that's because Serviio, the DLNA server, does not support multichannel DSD.

Unfortunately your receiver does not support multi channel DSD decoding only 2 channel.

If you look on page 120 of your user manual that is clearly explained.

Your receiver does not have analog multi channel input sockets.

The only way you can play a multi channel SACD with that receiver is to set the player to output five channel PCM over HDMI when playing a multi channel SACD.

I told you DSD is a cluster you know what.

I have never used DSF. It is highly compressed DSD, and a lot who have used it do not like it. If your receiver does not support multi channel DSD, then your receiver will not play a DSF ISO file of a multi channel DSD recording.

I would think you would be better off with a DSD to PCM conversion than DSF.

 

[Roen]

Thanks, I didn't see that in page 120.

It seems the DAC is limited to 2-ch, regardless of DSD or PCM.

Bah, oh well.

I'm pretty sure you're confused with digital file formats and compression.

The only available compression for DSD files is DST, which is lossless. Only DFF files are compressible with DST. You can have uncompressed DFF and compressed DFF files. DSF are not compressible by design.

All of my DSF files are uncompressed.

 

[Roen]

Not even the top of the line A3070 supports multichannel decoding.

Anyone know of any AVR's that will decode multichannel digital files?

 

[Roen]

Looking at the Denon's, they support multi channel DSD, but only DSD64 for both 2ch and multi channel.

With the Yamaha's, they support stereo only, but up to DSD128.

Can there not be one receiver that does DSD128/256/512 in 2ch and DSD64 in multi channel? Am I asking for too much?

 

[lovinthehd]

Both my Denon 3808 & 4520 and my Onkyo RC370 plays multich dsd.

 

[Roen]

Both my Denon 3808 & 4520 and my Onkyo RC370 plays multich dsd.

What transport? HDMI? USB? Network DLNA?

 

[lovinthehd]

What transport? HDMI? USB? Network DLNA?

Only tried via hdmi myself. Only have two sacd discs. Not sure how I could do dlna without copying the files to my computer or something....

 

[Roen]

Ah, so they play multichannel SACD via HDMI, but no confirmation on multichannel DSF / DFF?

Good to clarify the difference.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ah, so they play SACD via HDMI, but not DSF / DFF?

Good to clarify the difference.

Not familiar with DSF, DFF, one reason was watching the thread....

 

[Roen]

You may already know this, but imagine someone did a lossless uncompressed / compressed rip of your SACD. The end result, if you wanted tracks, would be DSF or DFF files representing each track on your SACD.

These days, most people rip with PS3's.

 

[lovinthehd]

You may already know this, but imagine someone did a lossless uncompressed / compressed rip of your SACD. The end result, if you wanted tracks, would be DSF or DFF files representing each track on your SACD.

Can't imagine why I'd want to do that, sounds easier just to play the two discs Is it free software to rip the SACD? Might try....

 

[lovinthehd]

You may already know this, but imagine someone did a lossless uncompressed / compressed rip of your SACD. The end result, if you wanted tracks, would be DSF or DFF files representing each track on your SACD.

These days, most people rip with PS3's.

My PS3 doesn't play sacd, have the newer slim.

 

[Roen]

sacd_extract

I imagine it's PS3 homebrew.

I have a Yamaha AVR, which makes smartphone navigation of NAS music a breeze, so I like everything digital.

Can just tick on playlists off my iPad to my Receiver of mixed DSD, FLAC and ALAC.

I think I have 7 or 10 DSF albums?

 

[lovinthehd]

sacd_extract

I imagine it's PS3 homebrew.

I have a Yamaha AVR, which makes smartphone navigation of NAS music a breeze, so I like everything digital.

Can just tick on playlists off my iPad to my Receiver of mixed DSD, FLAC and ALAC.

I think I have 7 or 10 DSF albums?

I manipulate most of my music from pc/phone via dlna thru foobar2000 or bubbleupnp. It's all 2ch, tho, for multich I just play the bluray/dvd/sacd disc....

 

[lovinthehd]

Not sure if my multi-drive in my pc would work with sacd disc?