Does low quality audio damages Hi-end speakers?

[Arthur Perez]

Here in Brazil, I heard some Hi-end AV distributors saying that low quality (such as Youtube or Mp3) can damage your Hi-end Speakers (especially your tweeter).

Actually, i don't buy it. Does it make sense to anyone?

 

[Pogre]

I have never heard of such a thing, though I'm not as experienced as some here.

 

[TLS Guy]

Here in Brazil, I heard some Hi-end AV distributors saying that low quality (such as Youtube or Mp3) can damage your Hi-end Speakers (especially your tweeter).

Actually, i don't buy it. Does it make sense to anyone?

Compression algorithms per se will not damage speakers. However poor quality mastering with high distortion, especially if the bit limit is exceeded certainly can.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I assume you have to play at very high volume to begin with

 

[TLS Guy]

I assume you have to play at very high volume to begin with

Well yes and no. Running out of bits pushes enormous energy into the tweeter range. I bet there is program around that could do damage without the volume being extreme.

Again it is not the codec, but the recording and mastering. There is a lot of non professional program out on the NET from people who have no concept of bits let alone running out of them. Quite likely they are making product without a bit meter. So yes, you have to be careful what you pick up on the Net.

 

[Arthur Perez]

Well yes and no. Running out of bits pushes enormous energy into the tweeter range. I bet there is program around that could do damage without the volume being extreme.

Again it is not the codec, but the recording and mastering. There is a lot of non professional program out on the NET from people who have no concept of bits let alone running out of them. Quite likely they are making product without a bit meter. So yes, you have to be careful what you pick up on the Net.

But it can be worse with B&W 804 Speakers for example? Or it would damage any speaker?

 

[shadyJ]

The bottom line is you would need a really REALLY crappy speaker that could be endangered by low quality source content. B&W 804s are not at all at risk of very poor source content, unless you play it extremely loud, but if you did that, even regular content might be enough to damage them as well.

 

[TLS Guy]

But it can be worse with B&W 804 Speakers for example? Or it would damage any speaker?

I would think a B & W 804 would be somewhat less likely to be damaged having a relatively high crossover point. The damage will be a function of the crossover point and the power handling of the tweeter.

I suspect that the dealers think high end speakers are more prone, as they are generally purchased with much more powerful amps.

I do know that the B & W dealer here does see a surprising number of blown B & W speakers. I have seen all drivers and crossovers blown out. One of those belonged to my good friend's son. Always a hefty amp is involved.

I would say in closing that speakers are much more easily damaged then people think. If it is like here then it is not unusual for dealers to be encountering blown speakers.

I have to own up to somehow recently blowing a tweeter in my center channel.

 

[Arthur Perez]

I use a Rotel 200w Multichannel amp

 

[TLS Guy]

I use a Rotel 200w Multichannel amp

I can assure you that if you lack common sense that Rotel amp is powerful enough to blow up as many B &W 804s as suits your pleasure.

 

[Speedskater]

I would worry more about legacy or boutique amplifiers doing nasty things and damaging the loudspeakers. Things like oscillating or large DC offsets.

 

[TLS Guy]

I would worry more about legacy or boutique amplifiers doing nasty things and damaging the loudspeakers. Things like oscillating or large DC offsets.

The bad older legacy amps have pretty much all blown up by now. There is a strong tendency for the remaining amps to be the cream of the crop.

 

[Darenwh]

So just to be on the safe side we should avoid all Justin Bebier songs....

 

[gzubeck]

So just to be on the safe side we should avoid all Justin Bebier songs....

Now that's funny...reminds me of that movie with the space aliens and their heads started exploding with the honky tonk music played over intercom speakers...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here in Brazil, I heard some Hi-end AV distributors saying that low quality (such as Youtube or Mp3) can damage your Hi-end Speakers (especially your tweeter).

Distortion or Clipping does NOT damage the speaker.

There are 2 causes of speaker damage: Mechanical and Electrical.

Mechanical: Physical damage to the speaker due to poor speaker design (like improper crossover points, improper enclosures, etc.).

Electrical: Speaker damage is caused by too much VOLUME which causes too much POWER to the speakers. If the power is not enough to damage the speaker, no amount of clipping or distortion will damage the speaker.

Just don't play anything too loud.

 

[gzubeck]

Distortion or Clipping does NOT damage the speaker.

There are 2 causes of speaker damage: Mechanical and Electrical.

Mechanical: Physical damage to the speaker due to poor speaker design (like improper crossover points, improper enclosures, etc.).

Electrical: Speaker damage is caused by too much VOLUME which causes too much POWER to the speakers. If the power is not enough to damage the speaker, no amount of clipping or distortion will damage the speaker.

Just don't play anything too loud.

Combination of both...two much power and too much nasty distortion happening together. Most people have the common sense to keep this from happening but every now and then when changing volume settings accidents can happen.

 

[lsiberian]

Distortion or Clipping does NOT damage the speaker.

There are 2 causes of speaker damage: Mechanical and Electrical.

Mechanical: Physical damage to the speaker due to poor speaker design (like improper crossover points, improper enclosures, etc.).

Electrical: Speaker damage is caused by too much VOLUME which causes too much POWER to the speakers. If the power is not enough to damage the speaker, no amount of clipping or distortion will damage the speaker.

Just don't play anything too loud.

Okay I gotta see pictures of the improper enclosures.

Most blown speakers are due to someone cranking them too loud. You can blow anything if you go loud and low enough.

 

[TLS Guy]

Distortion or Clipping does NOT damage the speaker.

There are 2 causes of speaker damage: Mechanical and Electrical.

Mechanical: Physical damage to the speaker due to poor speaker design (like improper crossover points, improper enclosures, etc.).

Electrical: Speaker damage is caused by too much VOLUME which causes too much POWER to the speakers. If the power is not enough to damage the speaker, no amount of clipping or distortion will damage the speaker.

Just don't play anything too loud.

What you say is perfectly correct, but it is not the whole story. In the context of the original question we are really talking about tweeter burn out and therefore power to the tweeter.

Now there is a huge difference between digital and analog clipping. Analog clipping like tape saturation or the amp running out of gas, starts gently and ends up with amps being limited in total power output by the limit of the amp to increase the power.

Digital clipping has sudden onset and rises very quickly. The other issue is that in a badly recorded file the distortion is already in the program and will not be limited by amplifier power.

So lets take two files of the same musical selection. If one file is clean and the other has 10% distortion which is conservative. With digital distortion it can and does go much higher than that.

Now pretty much all the increased power demand will go to the tweeter. So distortion products are up by 10 db if the first file was clean. This means you will see tweeter failure at half the perceived loudness playing the distorted file compared to the clean one. This is because the tweeter is only a small part of the total sound output. The tweeter is the most fragile but will be taking the brunt of the increase in power from the distortion.

This form of distortion is actually much more pernicious than amp clipping which is what we are usually talking about.

So those dealers are essentially correct you have to be careful what you pull down from the Net.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Now there is a huge difference between digital and analog clipping. Analog clipping like tape saturation or the amp running out of gas, starts gently and ends up with amps being limited in total power output by the limit of the amp to increase the power.

Digital clipping has sudden onset and rises very quickly. The other issue is that in a badly recorded file the distortion is already in the program and will not be limited by amplifier power.

So lets take two files of the same musical selection. If one file is clean and the other has 10% distortion which is conservative. With digital distortion it can and does go much higher than that.

Now pretty much all the increased power demand will go to the tweeter. So distortion products are up by 10 db if the first file was clean. This means you will see tweeter failure at half the perceived loudness playing the distorted file compared to the clean one. This is because the tweeter is only a small part of the total sound output. The tweeter is the most fragile but will be taking the brunt of the increase in power from the distortion.

This form of distortion is actually much more pernicious than amp clipping which is what we are usually talking about.

So those dealers are essentially correct you have to be careful what you pull down from the Net.

What documented source is telling you 10dB?

What I've read say clipped power will be twice the power sent to the driver.

So if it is 100W unclipped, then it is 200W clipped power sent to the driver.

But at low volume, we are talking about 1W unclipped, which means 2W clipped, which will never damage a driver that has been tested to handle 50W.

It is not the clipping (digital or analog) that damages the driver. It is the POWER SENT TO THE DRIVER that damages the driver.

 

[TLS Guy]

What documented source is telling you 10dB?

What I've read say clipped power will be twice the power sent to the driver.

So if it is 100W unclipped, then it is 200W clipped power sent to the driver.

But at low volume, we are talking about 1W unclipped, which means 2W clipped, which will never damage a driver that has been tested to handle 50W.

It is not the clipping (digital or analog) that damages the driver. It is the POWER SENT TO THE DRIVER that damages the driver.

What I'm telling you is that digital clipping is not the same as amp clipping in terms of severity. The digital clipping is much worse.

I took the 10 db as a conservative example.

I have a professional digital mastering set up and master CDs for people professionally. I can assure you that once you run out of bits, it just cuts the top off the waves, and distortion rises very very fast, pretty much up like a straight line.

So yes, people mastering stuff with cheap and even free software, that is not professional can put material up on the Net that is very hazardous to speakers. That is all I'm saying.

And what you read by the way is rubbish when it comes to digital clipping already in the source material.