AV Receiver for 2.1 setup

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I have a stereo 2.1 setup currently using Marantz SR4200.
If I wanted to upgrade the amplification to better sound quality, and also have bass management to control the sub-woofer cut over frequency, would it make sense to look for a used hi-end AVR from before the HDMI era ?
If you are looking for pre HDMI era AVR and don't mind tuning your sub manually then I highly recommend the Denon AVR-3805. That thing has been bench tested to produce 180W into 8 ohms and 300W into 4 ohms at less than 1% THD, and 116W in to 8 ohms at 0.004% THD. It could still put out 160 to 170W of dynamic power even into 1 ohm.

http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/

I have A/B it with my separate pre/power amp system numerous times and cannot honestly tell a difference. For bass management, the AVR-3808 will be a better choice. Equivalent Marantz models should also do the trick.
 
D

Dan Kalmar

Enthusiast
Considering the 7500 doesn't have room correction, I wouldn't bother trying to get a mic. The biggest problem with using another mic than the one built for it is incorrect levels since the receiver judges spl based on a calibrated voltage reading of the mics input, which will vary depending on the mic.

Considering the receiver is a thx receiver and therefore allows a relative volume control, I would just use an spl meter. Unfortunately a majority of spl meters that are C weighted will incorrectly gauge the subwoofer volume as c weighting rolls off at lower frequencies. What I would do is set the levels for the two speakers with the spl meter at ear level, set to c weighting slow, to 75dB, then set the sub to 70dB. Set the crossover to 150 hz, Listen to a track with a familiar bass line(preferably something non electronic like dance or rap music), switch between direct mode (which disables the xover) and stereo and see if the sub sounds like it's louder or softer than the bass coming from the speakers. Adjust up and down as necessary. Once you feel you've got a good balance set the xover to about 10hz above the speakers rated - 3dB point. Go back and forth again between direct and stereo, it should sound like the sub is simply filling in the lower end where the speakers leave off, not adding tons of extra bass.

Alternatively and more precisely, you could generate a band limited pink noise using REW from the - 3dB point of your mains up to 120hz. Since the sr7500 has analog multi channel inputs, plug the output into the front l/r, then plug it into the sub input and measure the spl of both to level match them. The spl meter might roll off at the bass frequencies, but it will give you a consistent reading at the same frequencies.

The Sr7500 is a fine receiver and will deliver gobs of clean power. Enjoy your purchase.

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk
Thanks for the elaborated recommendations. I'll give it a try.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Just want to mention that the Denon AVR-3805 and 3808 were made in Japan, if that matters..
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Considering the 7500 doesn't have room correction, I wouldn't bother trying to get a mic. The biggest problem with using another mic than the one built for it is incorrect levels since the receiver judges spl based on a calibrated voltage reading of the mics input, which will vary depending on the mic.

Considering the receiver is a thx receiver and therefore allows a relative volume control, I would just use an spl meter. Unfortunately a majority of spl meters that are C weighted will incorrectly gauge the subwoofer volume as c weighting rolls off at lower frequencies. What I would do is set the levels for the two speakers with the spl meter at ear level, set to c weighting slow, to 75dB, then set the sub to 70dB. Set the crossover to 150 hz, Listen to a track with a familiar bass line(preferably something non electronic like dance or rap music), switch between direct mode (which disables the xover) and stereo and see if the sub sounds like it's louder or softer than the bass coming from the speakers. Adjust up and down as necessary. Once you feel you've got a good balance set the xover to about 10hz above the speakers rated - 3dB point. Go back and forth again between direct and stereo, it should sound like the sub is simply filling in the lower end where the speakers leave off, not adding tons of extra bass.

Alternatively and more precisely, you could generate a band limited pink noise using REW from the - 3dB point of your mains up to 120hz. Since the sr7500 has analog multi channel inputs, plug the output into the front l/r, then plug it into the sub input and measure the spl of both to level match them. The spl meter might roll off at the bass frequencies, but it will give you a consistent reading at the same frequencies.

The Sr7500 is a fine receiver and will deliver gobs of clean power. Enjoy your purchase.

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk
The 7500 DOES have MRAC, Marantz's original home brew room correction.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Will it work with non original Marantz mic ?
As mentioned the Marantz mic would be the way to go because those systems, especially the early ones, will be designed around the mic it came with. Others may work, but I'd look for the Marantz one. The 7500 was probably the first year Marantz had room correction.

AC4L has a mic, but not sure if it is the right one.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/maracm1h/marantz-acm1hb-audyssey-setup-microphone-for-marantz-onkyo-denon/1.html
 
D

Dan Kalmar

Enthusiast
Not sure if it will be easy to find the original mic online. This model is from 2004.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, you may want to contact Marantz directly. The mic is a lot harder to come by than the receiver.
 
D

Dan Kalmar

Enthusiast
So when I level set the L-R speakers using the SPL meter at 75DB, I should set the sub-woofer to 70DB ?
The pink noise signal is very loud at the 75DB level. is that normal ?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
You now know what calibrated is, is all that means. Try it out set to calibrated level and you can dial it down if you find it actually is too much.
 
D

Dan Kalmar

Enthusiast
Does it matter what level is the master volume knob when doing the pink noise test ?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Honestly, I am not sure what that receiver. Does the pink noise adjust with the knob while it is playing?
 
D

Dan Kalmar

Enthusiast
Don't know. I will try. The manual does not say you need to set the master volume while calibrating the speakers in manual test mode.
 
D

Dan Kalmar

Enthusiast
Master volume has no impact on calibration.
However, even when increasing the pink noise level to +10 (the max) the SPL meter reading is well below 75DB.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
Master volume has no impact on calibration.
However, even when increasing the pink noise level to +10 (the max) the SPL meter reading is well below 75DB.
That's strange, is the spl meter set to c weighting? If it's set to C weighting, unless you're a football field away and using very insensitive speakers I would say something is wrong with your spl meter.

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
something isn't right there. At the very least, it should be within 10dB. Agree on C Weighting, or something with the speakers?
 
D

Dan Kalmar

Enthusiast
What is "C weighting" ? Is that a setting that needs to be defined in the SPL meter app ?
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
Looks like some great advice here. If you get the Marantz 7500 please post your results. We get a fair number of requests for advice but many folks don't follow up with how it all turned out.

I would interested to hear some results.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
What is "C weighting" ? Is that a setting that needs to be defined in the SPL meter app ?
Using an SPL meter isn't an app, although there are SPL apps. Radio Shacks SPL meter is practically a household standard like a toaster in these parts.

REW, a program, also has an SPL function. C weighting is just one of many choices in how you want the meter to measure. Like shutter modes in a DSLR camera.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
SPL apps should have A and C weighting at least, though I haven't used one yet. I still have my old Ratshack analog one.
 

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