That Sour and bitter drink

BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I know that we don't have many coffee aficionados here (@Swerd) and maybe few other.
In this thread I'd like to discuss everything coffee. We had few random posts with suggestions here and there, but I think it's overdue time to concentrate the efforts.

My brief history with drinking coffee:
Mr Coffee - drip.
Moka Pots
Saeco Aroma SemiAutomaic + Baratza Virtuso Grinder.
Aroma's original PortaFilter (aka handle) has been 1) de-pressurises and then ghetto made to be bottomless - not really, since I ordered true bottomless for this machine (kinda silly since I'm already looking to replace it, but right deal needs to come along first and it's hard)

Virtuosso unfortunately is RIP. Ether my bad maintenance or bad job re-calibrating it or crapload of plastic parts near important areas - anyhow :(

Replaced by Mighty and very manual Rancilio Rocky grinder - that little beast - can really grind to proper espresso, but it's not without quirks

and Finally my latest sacrifice (or an investment, depends on how look in it) is Behmore 1600 Plus coffee roaster.

Why doing home coffee roasting? - it's kinda silly, right? Wrong. Getting cheap/good coffee is proven near impossible task, especially after we moved from Brooklyn to Jersey suburbs. Now, I'm not complaining about my house, but getting freshly roasted coffee nearby became challenging

a) I could go to Wholefoods (10mins drive each way) and buy beans, but they don't sell single origin, just blends and none of these blends are particularly good for espresso. Their prices for roasted vary from $12-15/lbs

b) There is an awesome Rook Roasters (30mins drive each way). Few months ago I bought their Guatemalan roast and loved every sip of it. The problem is - their prices - at $13-15/lb it would quickly become an expensive hobby. [Edit: looks like there is a new location 15mins away, still same price issue)

So I grabbed my Behmore on nice sale, some (semi) random central america green coffee bags from SweetMarias. Quick glance at few YouTube videos and off we go.

First Batch was really worrying and I was completely and utterly clueless on what to expect to see, smell etc.. I ended it way to early and didn't gave coffee chance to develop (not even completed first crack). Coffee had very strong smoke smell, which only gone after 24h

Second Batch - Much more confident and end result was something I could show, but alas It still just a bit under roasted. Coffee had strong smoke smell, which only gone after day or so.

Third Batch - Now we are talking. The smell during roast was nice, very little smoke. Coffee had practically No smoke smell right after roast. My settings were:
226gm or 1/2lbs at 1/2 lbs setting P1 program. I also extended roast time (typically 12mins) by additional 30 seconds. I also let Behmore full 12mins for cool down. Some of that time coffee is still roasting (gliding) and still cracking

and here it is (before and after)



p.s: Swerd - I owe you a sample :)
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Not an aficionado, but I switched from diet soda to coffee a few years ago. Never liked the taste, but loved the smells in that aisle in the grocery stores. I started with a couple of the flavored types and needed to add something to help me acquire the taste, then became tired of the creamers because they had too much sugar, so I stopped using them and switched to Almond Milk, which wasn't bad, but it still wasn't doing it for me. Then, I went to PHX, to see some friends and while there, we went up to Prescott, where their son lives with his wife. We went to a bar and they got their drinks and I looked for something non-alcoholic and decided on coffee. I tried the House type and it really hit the flavor spot that I was looking for. I asked and they said it's $14/lb. I thought about buying some, but decided against carrying it since drug dealers use coffee to mask the smell of their contraband and I didn't want to be searched. Once I found that it was from Sumatra, I looked for it here and found it at a local grocery store chain- $6/12 oz and it's great! I grind it and use two filters, because I don't like too much grit. On the rare occasion that I forget to turn the coffee maker off, I come home to a much stronger, richer flavored cup and it's almost like a dark beer. I add absolutely nothing to it, I can drink it cold or hot and I have been making it stronger, over time. Pretty soon, I expect it to start to absorb light.

When I drank diet soda, I had problems sleeping and now, I don't. I can drink coffee in the afternoon or evening and often will fall asleep soon after- this stuff is great!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I feel like I have an 8" sub compared to someone with 8 x 18"s :) I use a Virtuoso grinder, an Aeropress maker, Costco sourced SF Bay Coffee Co French Roast/Rainforest blend and 175°F water. I'm happy. I used to have a customer that imported all the great espresso machines and shoulda bought one off him but I'm cheap and didn't want to fiddle with the machines....
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I feel like I have an 8" sub compared to someone with 8 x 18"s :) I use a Virtuoso grinder, an Aeropress maker, Costco sourced SF Bay Coffee Co French Roast/Rainforest blend and 175°F water. I'm happy. I used to have a customer that imported all the great espresso machines and shoulda bought one off him but I'm cheap and didn't want to fiddle with the machines....
From Aeropress your route to true espresso will be shorter than you think ;)
I'd recommend you to upgrade your grinder first :)
I've also tried few Costco whole roasted bags, but they were not very fresh. Whole bean Roasted coffee should be consumed within 1-2 months. Ground coffee tastes best only for 1 day at the most.
Decent espresso machine doesn't have to be expensive of very fiddly.
For example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/152173515705?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
It's off brand Olympia Express Cremina. Not sure how these were made - rumor has it that some workers continued to build them in 94-95 out of spare parts after original Olympia shut down. One of glaring difference seems to be plastic (teflon?) pipes where in original all pipes are copper. Otherwise they seem to be like twin brothers.
Do keep in mind that original cost $4k new , yes - you read it right - https://www.coffeecrew.com/gear-equipment-coffee/467-living-with-the-olympia-cremina-lever-espresso-maker.html
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
From Aeropress your route to true espresso will be shorter than you think ;)
I'd recommend you to upgrade your grinder first :)
I've also tried few Costco whole roasted bags, but they were not very fresh. Whole bean Roasted coffee should be consumed within 1-2 months. Ground coffee tastes best only for 1 day at the most.
Decent espresso machine doesn't have to be expensive of very fiddly.
For example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/152173515705?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
It's off brand Olympia Express Cremina. Not sure how these were made - rumor has it that some workers continued to build them in 94-95 out of spare parts after original Olympia shut down. One of glaring difference seems to be plastic (teflon?) pipes where in original all pipes are copper. Otherwise they seem to be like twin brothers.
Do keep in mind that original cost $4k new , yes - you read it right - https://www.coffeecrew.com/gear-equipment-coffee/467-living-with-the-olympia-cremina-lever-espresso-maker.html
Thanks for the suggestion, looks interesting. I do grind for each use, tho, and know that the Costco stuff is more cost effective than fresh....but haven't any better sources without driving 45 miles in any case. Roasting my own doesn't particularly appeal but haven't really looked for any other sources of roasted beans when I do drive into town....
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I'm a coffee noob and just use my keurig machine.

I do enjoy coffee in my beer however :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'm a coffee noob and just use my keurig machine.

I do enjoy coffee in my beer however :)
Coffee in beer? You mean on a brewed basis like maybe a stout or actually pouring coffee into a perfectly good beer?
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Coffee in beer? You mean on a brewed basis like maybe a stout or actually pouring coffee into a perfectly good beer?
Yes, I meant beer brewed with coffee.

A number of people infuse their beer with coffee (and other things) using a french press but I've never tried it.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Making and drinking good coffee is a fun ritual. It is fun to obsess over the methods of making good coffee – what matters and what doesn't matter. This became a long term home project after I stopped working full time in a biochemistry lab.

I roast green coffee that I buy from Sweet Maria's. A lot of the fun is discovering which types of coffee you like. It takes a lot of trial & error, very much like tasting different wines or beers. I like Central Americans from Guatemala, Costa Rica, and Panama, and I like East Africans from Ethiopia and Kenya. The new Guats should be coming anytime soon.

To roast, I use a simple Nesco electric roaster. It has a catalytic converter that removes much of the smoke. There are cheaper and more expensive roasters. It depends on how much you want to roast for about a week. I make 3 runs on the Nesco, starting with 120 grams of green coffee for each run and finish with about 105 g after roasting. Three runs gives me enough for a week. BSA's roaster can do bigger runs. There is nothing like drinking coffee about 3 days after it's roasted. By two weeks its getting stale and looses a lot of flavor. Local stores that sell 'fresh roasted' coffee never get it that fresh, they think 2 months is fresh.

And then there's the whole business about how light or dark do you like the roast. Much is said about this, but it's entirely personal preference. Experiment to find what you like. I like coffee roasted until the First Crack has ended, or just a minute longer.

I brew in a large Technivorm electric drip pot. It has a potent 1400 watt heater that gets the water the right brewing temperature, about 200-205°F. That temperature is required for proper flavor extraction. Weaker heaters in cheaper drip pots can heat to about 175-195° and they create bitter tasting coffee. So people put in less ground coffee, making weaker bitter tasting coffee. A cheaper substitute for the Technivorm is to boil water in a kettle, and pour it over the grounds in larger filter cone, such as a Melitta coffee maker. They come in various sizes.

I find it's better to use water filtered through an activated charcoal filter, like a Britta or other equivalent water filter. It removes the chlorine from the water, which I can taste in the brewed coffee. I never tried deionized or distilled water, and wonder if its any good.

I grind coffee in a Barzata Virtuoso mill, suggested by BSA after my twirly blade grinder bit the dust. It works very well and is much easier to use than the old twirly blade grinder. A lot of voodoo is associated with types of grinders. A precise level of fine grind is important for making espresso, but for other types of brewed coffee, the grinder isn't so important.

I know nothing about making espresso, other than espresso people are obsessed to a degree that amazes me. Their grinders and espresso makers are all expensive, and require a long learning curve before the brew is wonderful. But if you pay $2,350 for a machine called a Rocket Giotto Evoluzione v2 it looks badazz.


In contrast, drip coffee is much easier and cheaper.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I brew in a large Technivorm electric drip pot. It has a potent 1400 watt heater that gets the water the right brewing temperature, about 200-205°F. That temperature is required for proper flavor extraction. Weaker heaters in cheaper drip pots can heat to about 175-195° and they create bitter tasting coffee. So people put in less ground coffee, making weaker bitter tasting coffee. A cheaper substitute for the Technivorm is to boil water in a kettle, and pour it over the grounds in larger filter cone, such as a Melitta coffee maker. They come in various sizes.
I've read several times about the 175 degree thing and it produces nice results for me with my Aeropress....when I used a fancy drip maker I just let it cool from boiling a bit, though. I thought that was more bitter....
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I've read several times about the 175 degree thing and it produces nice results for me with my Aeropress....when I used a fancy drip maker I just let it cool from boiling a bit, though. I thought that was more bitter....
I was wrong when I said bitter. A better way to describe it would be, coffee brewed at too low a temperature results in dulling of the higher, more vivid cup tones, and incomplete extraction of the coffee flavors overall. Depending on the coffee I'm using, this can result in a flat tasting bitter cup.

Cheap electric drip brewers invariably fail to brew coffee at the correct temperature; most home electric drip brewers reach only about 185°. People have tested the Technivorms. There is a steep drop off once the water hits the grounds and then drops to the pot – that is to be expected. It produces water at 195-205° F at the brew head, 160° in the grounds, and 156° just after it drips into the insulated pot. I find that is too hot to actually taste anything, so I let it cool in the cup before I drink it. I don't know what temperature that is.

Another major advantage of the Technivorm is that it lasts long. I've used mine daily for over 10 years. In every cheaper electric drip pot I've previously had, the electric heating element failed after about 2-3 year's use.

I've never used an Aeropress. It makes only one cup at a time and both my wife & I drink two in the morning. To use it, you have to boil water separately before pouring it in. That puts you in control of the temperature. In that sense, its not unlike the many manual filter drip cones, such as those Melittas.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm a coffee noob and just use my keurig machine.
Honest to god, some pods have acceptable taste, like a few from Nestle, but Keurig - I tried dozens different pods and they all suck. I know you'll need new machine, but if you dead set on pods - at least try decent ones :)

Or get cheap burr grinder like this one : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0161Q2RUM/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687462&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0001I9R8W&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=4Q5FE3VWV955EVTMGHBN
and Moka pod or Aeropress and start drinking better coffee. Costco stuff aint half bad.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Making and drinking good coffee is a fun ritual. It is fun to obsess over the methods of making good coffee – what matters and what doesn't matter. This became a long term home project after I stopped working full time in a biochemistry lab.

I roast green coffee that I buy from Sweet Maria's. A lot of the fun is discovering which types of coffee you like. It takes a lot of trial & error, very much like tasting different wines or beers. I like Central Americans from Guatemala, Costa Rica, and Panama, and I like East Africans from Ethiopia and Kenya. The new Guats should be coming anytime soon.

To roast, I use a simple Nesco electric roaster. It has a catalytic converter that removes much of the smoke. There are cheaper and more expensive roasters. It depends on how much you want to roast for about a week. I make 3 runs on the Nesco, starting with 120 grams of green coffee for each run and finish with about 105 g after roasting. Three runs gives me enough for a week. BSA's roaster can do bigger runs. There is nothing like drinking coffee about 3 days after it's roasted. By two weeks its getting stale and looses a lot of flavor. Local stores that sell 'fresh roasted' coffee never get it that fresh, they think 2 months is fresh.

And then there's the whole business about how light or dark do you like the roast. Much is said about this, but it's entirely personal preference. Experiment to find what you like. I like coffee roasted until the First Crack has ended, or just a minute longer.

I brew in a large Technivorm electric drip pot. It has a potent 1400 watt heater that gets the water the right brewing temperature, about 200-205°F. That temperature is required for proper flavor extraction. Weaker heaters in cheaper drip pots can heat to about 175-195° and they create bitter tasting coffee. So people put in less ground coffee, making weaker bitter tasting coffee. A cheaper substitute for the Technivorm is to boil water in a kettle, and pour it over the grounds in larger filter cone, such as a Melitta coffee maker. They come in various sizes.

I find it's better to use water filtered through an activated charcoal filter, like a Britta or other equivalent water filter. It removes the chlorine from the water, which I can taste in the brewed coffee. I never tried deionized or distilled water, and wonder if its any good.

I grind coffee in a Barzata Virtuoso mill, suggested by BSA after my twirly blade grinder bit the dust. It works very well and is much easier to use than the old twirly blade grinder. A lot of voodoo is associated with types of grinders. A precise level of fine grind is important for making espresso, but for other types of brewed coffee, the grinder isn't so important.

I know nothing about making espresso, other than espresso people are obsessed to a degree that amazes me. Their grinders and espresso makers are all expensive, and require a long learning curve before the brew is wonderful. But if you pay $2,350 for a machine called a Rocket Giotto Evoluzione v2 it looks badazz.


In contrast, drip coffee is much easier and cheaper.
Same here, I bought my 1st batch from Sweetmaria's but their shipping from CA to NJ was quite long from 7/5 shipping till 7/12 received.

Rocket is sweet machine, but one needs to be aware on how to tame Heat Exchanger machines :)
Plus like I said - you could always find better deal if look hard. For example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Andreja-Premium-by-Quick-Mill-Espresso-Machine-cappuccino-latte-coffee-expresso-/122020526893?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&nma=true&si=JC%2FoD0BLuSy5QhHWbfIt4WbxGH0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


Forgot to mentioned - we installed whole house water filter then we moved in here in two years ago.
Expensive but totally worth it. Water had way too much chlorine - I mean one could easily smell in shower for example. That system also includes ion (aka salt) water softener.

And Yes, good espresso is not easy to make - it requires good Barista, Good grinder and good espresso machine in this order, but it's worth it and it's fun as well.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Honest to god, some pods have acceptable taste, like a few from Nestle, but Keurig - I tried dozens different pods and they all suck. I know you'll need new machine, but if you dead set on pods - at least try decent ones :)

Or get cheap burr grinder like this one : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0161Q2RUM/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687462&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0001I9R8W&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=4Q5FE3VWV955EVTMGHBN
and Moka pod or Aeropress and start drinking better coffee. Costco stuff aint half bad.
I still have a lot of kcups to go through D:

These are my favorites so far:
https://smile.amazon.com/EKOCUPS-Organic-Artisan-Mexican-Recyclable/dp/B00M4WC8K2/

If my keurig ever breaks I'll look into some of the other stuff :)
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I still have a lot of kcups to go through D:

These are my favorites so far:
https://smile.amazon.com/EKOCUPS-Organic-Artisan-Mexican-Recyclable/dp/B00M4WC8K2/

If my keurig ever breaks I'll look into some of the other stuff :)
To give you a bit of perspective: these 40 pods are roughly equivalent to 1.8lbs of green coffee (counting 20% weight loss for roasting) which would cost about $10 plus shipping.
So you see - in long run - green coffee wins even vs discounted amazon prices for pods :)
not to mention much better taste :)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Same here, I bought my 1st batch from Sweetmaria's but their shipping from CA to NJ was quite long from 7/5 shipping till 7/12 received.
It has always taken 7 full days to ship from Oakland to anywhere on the east coast as long as I bought from them. There are other sellers of green beans, but their prices and quality vary by a lot. I wanted to learn about different varieties of coffee, and Sweet Maria's quality has been reliable and consistent. I think that helped me learn faster.
Forgot to mentioned - we installed whole house water filter then we moved in here in two years ago.
Expensive but totally worth it. Water had way too much chlorine - I mean one could easily smell in shower for example. That system also includes ion (aka salt) water softener.
I've never looked into a whole house water filter, but I can imagine it is expensive. Those activated charcoal filters have to be replaced often.

If you boil water, all the chlorine comes out as a gas just before the water comes to a boil.

Most of those water softener systems don't actually remove salt ions but exchange sodium (more soluble) for calcium (much less soluble). Some systems do actually capture and remove salt ions, but they must have large and expensive filters with 'ion exchange resins'.

The water where I live has more chlorine in the summer than the rest of the year.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I've been going to a place called Blue Bottle. All hand poured, their own beans, pretty impressive. Their single origin Guatemalan was awesome. I really should have picked up a bag or two...

https://bluebottlecoffee.com/


WATER is one of the single most important factors. I found this out interestingly by using my pour over at the other house. That water comes from my well and tastes incredibly clean. The resulting coffee tastes noticeably different and better.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
For those looking for a possible coffee bean source on the East coast: http://www.aproastery.com/coffee/
They're in Asbury park, NJ.
We're black coffee and espresso drinkers, they have the best we've had so far, IMHO. (we not experts by any means)
Many Asbury Park restaurants serve their coffee.
They seem to be more of a walk-in place, though I'd think they'd ship you raw / roasted beans if you called them.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I was at Philz last week. Their Jamaican is $7 a cup and $120/lb!
 
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