turntable with automatic arm question

[slipperybidness]

It's just my thinking and I could be off in the process. I try and hit the silent part but it's a high n miss thing.

O......C......D, much?


Or maybe it's OCA
Obsessive Compulsive Audioholic

 

[3db]

I think my OCA tendencies is what keeps my vinyl collection sounding so clean.

 

[sterling shoote]

here's to hoping i don't hear a difference vs digital

You will hear a difference. You will hear noise, and pops, These are things absent in digital recordings. Perhaps, you may get lucky and actually play an LP side without the distraction of pops; but, at a realistic volume you will hear noise even on the so called quite groove. So why even bother with vinyl? There's so much more Hi-Fi with CD; and, there's just so much more convenience. In fact, you'd need to spend literally thousands of dollars on vinyl playback equipment and content to get the sort of performance a few hundred dollars would get with CD playback equipment and content.

I have a 40 year old manual turntable with an awesome cartridge. It plays LP's with astonishing results; but, it falls short of CD quality. They all do. With this in mind, it's a wonder why vinyl is having such a come back. Must be an interaction thing, that's to say, audiophiles wanting more involvement than what's required to enjoy CDs.

 

[slipperybidness]

I think my OCA tendencies is what keeps my vinyl collection sounding so clean.

Yeah, my FLACs and general laziness are what keeps my vinyl so clean

 

[3db]

You will hear a difference. You will hear noise, and pops, These are things absent in digital recordings. Perhaps, you may get lucky and actually play an LP side without the distraction of pops; but, at a realistic volume you will hear noise even on the so called quite groove. So why even bother with vinyl? There's so much more Hi-Fi with CD; and, there's just so much more convenience. In fact, you'd need to spend literally thousands of dollars on vinyl playback equipment and content to get the sort of performance a few hundred dollars would get with CD playback equipment and content.

I have a 40 year old manual turntable with an awesome cartridge. It plays LP's with astonishing results; but, it falls short of CD quality. They all do. With this in mind, it's a wonder why vinyl is having such a come back. Must be an interaction thing, that's to say, audiophiles wanting more involvement than what's required to enjoy CDs.

I will be the first to admit that CD is a better medium than vinyl but you have posted some general misinformation that I would like to clear up.

I agree with you in the involvement factor (lack of convenience) is more substantial with vinyl than CD. However, its vinyl that brought me back to enjoying and collecting music that waned as a result of the CD convenience. Instead of skipping a track I don't like on CD, I'm forced to listen to it on vinyl ( once the tonearm is down, it stays down for the entire side) and in most cases have come to appreciate the track that I would have never gained through the convenient skip track button on the CD player remote.

I disagree with your statement of a vinyl setup having to cost 1000s of dollars to get close to CD performance. That's an audiophile myth to the same extent as audio cables and interconnects. My friends are astounded at how nice my vinyl plays on my system. I use Tom Petty's "MOJO" album as I own both formats of this recording and my friends all said that they could not tell the difference in sound between the two formats. My turntable costed me $700 taxes in and I use the phono stage of my AVR.

I listen to my music at healthy volume levels and the quiet tracks aren't noisy in quality recordings. I don't buy into that generalization. Vinyl is also immune to the loudness wars that's so prevalent with the last 10 years of CD recordings offering better dynamics as a result.

 

[3db]

Yeah, my FLACs and general laziness are what keeps my vinyl so clean

I don't get it.

 

[slipperybidness]

I don't get it.

I mean that I listen to FLAC or CD way more often than vinyl. Just out of convenience.

 

[3db]

I mean that I listen to FLAC or CD way more often than vinyl. Just out of convenience.

I get that.

 

[sterling shoote]

3db,

My LP collection has been digitized at 16/44.1; and, from iTunes, I can not distinguish these recordings from the same material on CD. In fact, I often need to look at the properties of the music files in iTunes to recall the original medium from which the digital files were made. Nevertheless, I would not put any money into LP playback equipment today except perhaps for stylus replacement to allow me to continue to digitize recordings in my LP library which are not available on CD. The reason I can not distinguish digital files from LP or CD is easily understood. I've digitized my LP's while listening to them at a very low volume so as not to pick-up vibrations from my listening room and speakers. On the other hand, when playing LPs at a realistic level I can easily distinguish LPs from the same material reproduced from CD, since the CDs are not affected by speaker/room resonance; and, CDs have no groove noise.

My Sony PS-4750 Turntable, a direct-drive manual model, was purchased about 40 years ago for about three hundred dollars. The latest cartridge for it, a Shure V15V-MR, was purchased about 20 years ago for about four hundred dollars. In an attempt to understand what's out there today, something that might perform as good as my current set-up, my research led me to a Rega PS6 and Ortofon Black MM cartridge, an outfit which would cost me about two thousand dollars. I assume there are some LP playback solutions for a lot less than that, which could provide a satisfying experience with some material, maybe not. I think it would largely depend on the mind-set of the buyer. That's to say, it would depend on what the buyer perceives he is getting for his money, as well as the reality of the listening experience. Before I got my Sony/Shure combination I was dissatisfied with record players from BSR, Duel, and B&0. None of those units and cartridges could track very well and I perceived I was not getting all that was in the groove to get. I know I get everything from my records with my current set-up. There's detail and sound stage as heard from CD, Yet, it's the additional stuff from LPs that distracts me from greater enjoyment, like pops, groove noise, inconvenience, record maintenance, storage, and more. Still, perhaps like you may think, there's something quite compelling about turntables and LPs, I just can figure out why I am drawn to it, like a moth drawn to the light.

 

[3db]

3db,

My LP collection has been digitized at 16/44.1; and, from iTunes, I can not distinguish these recordings from the same material on CD. In fact, I often need to look at the properties of the music files in iTunes to recall the original medium from which the digital files were made. Nevertheless, I would not put any money into LP playback equipment today except perhaps for stylus replacement to allow me to continue to digitize recordings in my LP library which are not available on CD. The reason I can not distinguish digital files from LP or CD is easily understood. I've digitized my LP's while listening to them at a very low volume so as not to pick-up vibrations from my listening room and speakers. On the other hand, when playing LPs at a realistic level I can easily distinguish LPs from the same material reproduced from CD, since the CDs are not affected by speaker/room resonance; and, CDs have no groove noise.

I have no feedback issues with my turntable setup when playing at relatively loud volumes, excess of 80db .. There is some (very slight ..its not a CD afterall ) groove noise between tracks but even in the quietest parts of a music track, I don't hear it.

[QUOTE="sterling shoote] My Sony PS-4750 Turntable, a direct-drive manual model, was purchased about 40 years ago for about three hundred dollars. The latest cartridge for it, a Shure V15V-MR, was purchased about 20 years ago for about four hundred dollars. In an attempt to understand what's out there today, something that might perform as good as my current set-up, my research led me to a Rega PS6 and Ortofon Black MM cartridge, an outfit which would cost me about two thousand dollars. I assume there are some LP playback solutions for a lot less than that, which could provide a satisfying experience with some material, maybe not. I think it would largely depend on the mind-set of the buyer. That's to say, it would depend on what the buyer perceives he is getting for his money, as well as the reality of the listening experience. Before I got my Sony/Shure combination I was dissatisfied with record players from BSR, Duel, and B&0. None of those units and cartridges could track very well and I perceived I was not getting all that was in the groove to get. I know I get everything from my records with my current set-up. There's detail and sound stage as heard from CD, Yet, it's the additional stuff from LPs that distracts me from greater enjoyment, like pops, groove noise, inconvenience, record maintenance, storage, and more. Still, perhaps like you may think, there's something quite compelling about turntables and LPs, I just can figure out why I am drawn to it, like a moth drawn to the light.[/QUOTE]

I have a ProJect Xpression III belt drive with an Ortofon 2M Red and its a very solid performer. I'm very happy with the setup and it gets all the detail that you mentioned.

I've ripped all my CDs to disk at 320 MPs and use a WD media player to play them. Rarely do I put on a CD anymore.

 

[sterling shoote]

I have no feedback issues with my turntable setup when playing at relatively loud volumes, excess of 80db .. There is some (very slight ..its not a CD afterall ) groove noise between tracks but even in the quietest parts of a music track, I don't hear it.

[QUOTE="sterling shoote] My Sony PS-4750 Turntable, a direct-drive manual model, was purchased about 40 years ago for about three hundred dollars. The latest cartridge for it, a Shure V15V-MR, was purchased about 20 years ago for about four hundred dollars. In an attempt to understand what's out there today, something that might perform as good as my current set-up, my research led me to a Rega PS6 and Ortofon Black MM cartridge, an outfit which would cost me about two thousand dollars. I assume there are some LP playback solutions for a lot less than that, which could provide a satisfying experience with some material, maybe not. I think it would largely depend on the mind-set of the buyer. That's to say, it would depend on what the buyer perceives he is getting for his money, as well as the reality of the listening experience. Before I got my Sony/Shure combination I was dissatisfied with record players from BSR, Duel, and B&0. None of those units and cartridges could track very well and I perceived I was not getting all that was in the groove to get. I know I get everything from my records with my current set-up. There's detail and sound stage as heard from CD, Yet, it's the additional stuff from LPs that distracts me from greater enjoyment, like pops, groove noise, inconvenience, record maintenance, storage, and more. Still, perhaps like you may think, there's something quite compelling about turntables and LPs, I just can figure out why I am drawn to it, like a moth drawn to the light.

I have a ProJect Xpression III belt drive with an Ortofon 2M Red and its a very solid performer. I'm very happy with the setup and it gets all the detail that you mentioned.
I've ripped all my CDs to disk at 320 MPs and use a WD media player to play them. Rarely do I put on a CD anymore.[/QUOTE]

My stylus concerns me today, since it is no longer made. You alluded to being happy with your Ortofon Red. That cartridge is not too expensive. Perhaps I should buy one. I don't perceive I would have any compatability issues.

 

[Alex2507]

as it begins to enter the groove which applies additional friction

I've only got a handful of records that I'd hesitate to drop the needle anywhere I feel like. The rest of them are nowhere near perfect condition and I'm going to hear a few pops and some hiss once in a while. Used vinyl is still better sounding (more engaging) than 128 Kbps Pandora. I'd bet that the new-ish albums sound better than the 192 Kbps $5 per month Pandora.

In my case the TT was free and albums can be as little as a dollar. I've had a chance to sample a lot of music for very little money thanks to vinyl. It's been pretty interesting too since I didn't grow up with normal Americana. I bet my father doesn't even know who Tom Jones is.

Since the record crew is here, I feel an imminent thread-jack coming on. I need to extend the RCA plugs on my TT. I know that's a no-no due to added capacitance or what not but it has to happen. Can I get a rec for a wire type? Coax, shielded 2 conductor? Unshielded 18 ga to match the wires attached to my TT? TIA.

 

[3db]

What length do you need?

 

[mike c]

just wanted to report that there is indeed nothing special to my ears.
i can also hear the crackles and pops (before i read sterling's post above)
so yeah, i just wanted to try it before i knock it.

i ended up with the rega rp3 (supposedly levels up sounding over the rp1)
used marantz analog amps

 

[Alex2507]

What length do you need?

Probably 5 or 6 feet. It just occurred to me that I could wire in RCA jacks on my TT and then use custom lengths of RG-59. Barrel connectors should work for now.

 

[Swerd]

Since the record crew is here, I feel an imminent thread-jack coming on. I need to extend the RCA plugs on my TT. I know that's a no-no due to added capacitance or what not but it has to happen. Can I get a rec for a wire type? Coax, shielded 2 conductor? Unshielded 18 ga to match the wires attached to my TT? TIA.

If you only need 5-6 feet it probably won't matter. Use whatever you can find cheap.

For years when I had an AVR with a built-in phono section, I had to add some length to the ~4 foot cable on the TT. I used a cheap 3 foot extension cable like the photo (don't tell TLS Guy, I want to avoid the lecture ).

Later when I got the AVR I now have, I had to pick up a separate phono pre-amp, and used somewhat better audio cable. I can't really say if I heard a difference – the records sounded the same to me. I probably still have that extension cable in a box of odds & ends.

 

[Alex2507]

(don't tell TLS Guy, I want to avoid the lecture ).

mums the word

Your cable rec is the most similar to what is already on my TT. I'm a little concerned about shielding but as many anti-LP types would be happy to point out, how would I be able to tell induced noise apart from the rice crispy noise of an album anyway?

 

[Swerd]

Your cable rec is the most similar to what is already on my TT. I'm a little concerned about shielding but as many anti-LP types would be happy to point out, how would I be able to tell induced noise apart from the rice crispy noise of an album anyway?

That would be true for any audio cable, if you don't hear induced noise it is – by definition – good enough.

 

[slipperybidness]

If you only need 5-6 feet it probably won't matter. Use whatever you can find cheap.

For years when I had an AVR with a built-in phono section, I had to add some length to the ~4 foot cable on the TT. I used a cheap 3 foot extension cable like the photo (don't tell TLS Guy, I want to avoid the lecture ).

Later when I got the AVR I now have, I had to pick up a separate phono pre-amp, and used somewhat better audio cable. I can't really say if I heard a difference – the records sounded the same to me. I probably still have that extension cable in a box of odds & ends.

When I tried to use cheapy extensions for my TT, I had hum (EMI interference). I could mitigate it by keeping away from power cables, but I just ended up getting cables with better shielding and that solved the problem.

 

[Alex2507]

I knew I could turn this into a wire flame war. DBT! DBT! DBT!