Need help with 5.1 system options on $2500 budget

Whodat015

Whodat015

Audiophyte
Hello there,

I'm currently remodeling my home and I'm close to finishing up my den (22x18) with vaulted ceilings. I'm starting to do some research on a good quality system for around $2500. I currently have an old Onkio 5.1 system mounted on the corners but sound quality is horrible. My wife likes the bose system because of their small size but I know that we can get so much more for our money. I'm pretty new to this side of sound quality and I'm looking for some help/suggestions. So far I like the following: Bowers and Wilkins MT-60D system with the 5- M1 satellite speakers and the PV1D sub, Paradigm Millenia One speaker, NHT Absolute zero and lastly the Definitive Technology Promonitor 1000 along with the Procenter 2000 center speaker and the super cube 2000 sub. I would like to pair the 5.1 speakers with Yamaha Aventage RX-A840 7.2 Channel receiver. We enjoy good music and also love watching movies with the kids. So I would like something that would handle both pretty well.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What does mounted on the corners mean? You plan to do that again? Could be placement is an issue to tame before buying new stuff. DefTec subs aren't really subs at all, and either is that B&W thing, I'd look elsewhere (doesn't need to match unless aesthetics are more important than value/performance).
 
Whodat015

Whodat015

Audiophyte
What does mounted on the corners mean? You plan to do that again? Could be placement is an issue to tame before buying new stuff. DefTec subs aren't really subs at all, and either is that B&W thing, I'd look elsewhere (doesn't need to match unless aesthetics are more important than value/performance).
The way the room is setup is the only way I can place the speakers. Perfect world I would go with a couple of towers but my wife doesn't like the look so I'm looking at smaller speaker alternatives that offer great sound quality that I can mount.
 
Whodat015

Whodat015

Audiophyte
I sure did read it. I actually have them listed in my top four. I'm not sure if I'm splitting hairs with the B&W, Def Tech, Paradigm and NHT in terms of quality but just want to make sure I get a good system that will be good for both music and surround. I'm trying to find a local dealer on NHT to go check them out. I went to Best Buy to hear the B&W and they sound pretty nice. so any suggestions or personal exprience would be greatly appreciated.
 
Whodat015

Whodat015

Audiophyte

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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
My 2 (not very humble) cents, based on room layout - I'd stick to 3.1 or 3.2 setup (aka LCR plus sub(s))
Look into NHT onwall speaker.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The way the room is setup is the only way I can place the speakers. Perfect world I would go with a couple of towers but my wife doesn't like the look so I'm looking at smaller speaker alternatives that offer great sound quality that I can mount.
WAF can kill a good setup pretty quick :) You plan on taming some of those reflective surfaces? Unfortunately small speakers and good audio quality are somewhat at odds with each other....I'd probably lean towards NHT of your choices, the suggestion of Hsu is appealing as well. Also I'd look at Ascend Acoustics offerings, probably the 200SE or 170SE.
 
Whodat015

Whodat015

Audiophyte
I would say so. Her main thing is aesthetics as opposed to great sound quality. The more research I do the more excited I get. I see the possibilities of having a great system but the WAF is having me make some tough choices and compromises. She doesn't Mind the quality aspect of a system but she just doesn't want anything big(tower) or bulky. That's the reason why Im here. Considering WAF, what would you go with in this type room?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well, some sound absorption should improve whatever speakers you end up with. Carpet/rug for the wood floor, more wall hangings, maybe even some artfully disguised absorption panels would help with reflections....

You don't necessarily need towers for good sound, have you considered in-walls? I take it you are you limited to small and pretty subs that aren't big black boxes? Keep in mind you can disguise a sub as furniture, too.

Hard for me to consider WAF, happily single and not even appealing considering the "taste" I've seen in terms of decor in some married friends' homes.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I agree 3.2 then maybe add the surround wireless.
Nope, just stick to 3.2. Any reasonable attempts to convert this WAF restricted and obviously multipurpose room into proper HT are doomed to fail.

It's best to accept these facts and try to get best 3.2 OP can afford. In-Walls could also work if TV would be wall mounted as well. As it shows his living room, I'd say on-walls or hanging bookshelves are way to go. As it's already mentioned = tiny speakers (ala Bose) can't sound great, but a brand worth checking is Mirage
 
L

Latent

Full Audioholic
as mentioned 3.1 may be a good option. I can't see surround backs in this room for 7.1 but it may be possible to wall mount surround speakers to get 5.1 but the problem is the positions to correctly place these speakers to get a proper placment are not ideal. They should be between your seated ear level and 2' above ear level and positioned a couple of fee behind the couch on the side walls. The left speaker would almost be where the head of that animal skin should be if it had one and the right speaker would be next to the fireplace on the opposite side. Hiding the wires well can be an issue sometimes. Also anyone sitting close to the surround speaker will not get a great experience.

Another interesting idea is that you can run 2-4 Atmos/DTS:X speakers in your room. You can get ceiling mounted speakers if you have easy access to the ceiling space. But you also have those beams you may be able to use. you either have two speakers in top middle position which is I think a couple of feet down one of those beams. Or you can do 4 channels and use Top Front and Top Rear speakers (AVR's that support 4 height channels cost a bit more though as 2 channel support height support is in many entry level units now.) you seem to have tow beams that almost perfectly line up with the ideal Front Left and Front Right speaker positions which is ideal as top speakers are meant to be in the same line. You can reuse the speaker mounts you already have for those existing speakers and just move them to the new positions and get a small satellite speaker that matches your LCR speakers well if possible. Would be interesting to try a 3.1.4 atmos/DTS:X setup as this will give you a sort of surround sound experience with sound coming from behind even though you lack the normally important surround speakers. You have to apply the dolby/DTS upmixers to get the height channels to do this though and so you would have the option to leave them off if you want simpler 3.1/2.1 sound for some sources.



room.jpg


FL= Front Left position
TF = Top Front left position (would be right positions two beams over)
TM = Top Middle for 2 height channels only
TR = Top Rear
SL = Surround Left

For the top speakers you need to measure the angles to get the best position but you are looking for around 45 degree angles front and back for TF/TR speakers from your head position when seated. This may put the speakers much further forward and back than my picture above as it is hard for me to know the correct positions based on a single photo.

Maybe the surround speakers in the rear corners as they are now if you get the L/C/R speakers well positioned may also sound ok. Also note that as mentioned above your room with lots of reflective surfaces is going to have a HUGE impact on your sound if you don't do something about it. Getting good AVR based room correction may help a little but correcting the problem directly will give better results.
 
Whodat015

Whodat015

Audiophyte
as mentioned 3.1 may be a good option. I can't see surround backs in this room for 7.1 but it may be possible to wall mount surround speakers to get 5.1 but the problem is the positions to correctly place these speakers to get a proper placment are not ideal. They should be between your seated ear level and 2' above ear level and positioned a couple of fee behind the couch on the side walls. The left speaker would almost be where the head of that animal skin should be if it had one and the right speaker would be next to the fireplace on the opposite side. Hiding the wires well can be an issue sometimes. Also anyone sitting close to the surround speaker will not get a great experience.

Another interesting idea is that you can run 2-4 Atmos/DTS:X speakers in your room. You can get ceiling mounted speakers if you have easy access to the ceiling space. But you also have those beams you may be able to use. you either have two speakers in top middle position which is I think a couple of feet down one of those beams. Or you can do 4 channels and use Top Front and Top Rear speakers (AVR's that support 4 height channels cost a bit more though as 2 channel support height support is in many entry level units now.) you seem to have tow beams that almost perfectly line up with the ideal Front Left and Front Right speaker positions which is ideal as top speakers are meant to be in the same line. You can reuse the speaker mounts you already have for those existing speakers and just move them to the new positions and get a small satellite speaker that matches your LCR speakers well if possible. Would be interesting to try a 3.1.4 atmos/DTS:X setup as this will give you a sort of surround sound experience with sound coming from behind even though you lack the normally important surround speakers. You have to apply the dolby/DTS upmixers to get the height channels to do this though and so you would have the option to leave them off if you want simpler 3.1/2.1 sound for some sources.



View attachment 18329

FL= Front Left position
TF = Top Front left position (would be right positions two beams over)
TM = Top Middle for 2 height channels only
TR = Top Rear
SL = Surround Left

For the top speakers you need to measure the angles to get the best position but you are looking for around 45 degree angles front and back for TF/TR speakers from your head position when seated. This may put the speakers much further forward and back than my picture above as it is hard for me to know the correct positions based on a single photo.

Maybe the surround speakers in the rear corners as they are now if you get the L/C/R speakers well positioned may also sound ok. Also note that as mentioned above your room with lots of reflective surfaces is going to have a HUGE impact on your sound if you don't do something about it. Getting good AVR based room correction may help a little but correcting the problem directly will give better results.
So in discussion with my wife she has agreed to looking at better options based on the room configuration. Including towers/bookshelf for fronts. I will add a 75" Sony 4K TV on wall and will add a couple of more chairs, rug and few more things on the walls to help with sound. With that being said and with possibilities of front towers med size what brands would you recommend for the L/C/R? I would have to go with on wall rears. I appreciate all of suggestions so far. Again something that would be great for music and home theatre. Took a bit to convince wife but she's coming around.
 
L

Latent

Full Audioholic
Looks like your wife is a keeper than...

Lots of speaker options for the L/C/R but i'm not the expert in that department. If music is important then towers may be a better bet but for movies good bookshelves (with identical center if you can) with 1-2 good subs can be a better option. One thing to note with a 75" 4k TV is to measure your distance to the screen from the siting position. With 75" screen a person with average eye sight will need to sit between than 9.5-4.5 feet to receive any benefit from 4k. looking at where the couch is you may be around this 9.5 feet range and anything closer than 9.5 feet you may be able to just see 1080 resolution which is where 4k is helpful. If you are further back than that then don't worry about 4k or 4k content too much. A 4k Screen may have some other advantages other than more pixels though.
 
Whodat015

Whodat015

Audiophyte
Definitively a Keeper! What do you think about the B&W CM1 S2 bookshelf and CM center S2. I heard these at local Best Buy and I really enjoyed the sound quality. Reading reviews on here I ran across the NHT Classic three bookshelf speaker and NHT Classic threeC center and excellent review both on music and HT. Any thoughts on these? Thanks
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
So in discussion with my wife she has agreed to looking at better options based on the room configuration. Including towers/bookshelf for fronts. I will add a 75" Sony 4K TV on wall and will add a couple of more chairs, rug and few more things on the walls to help with sound. With that being said and with possibilities of front towers med size what brands would you recommend for the L/C/R? I would have to go with on wall rears. I appreciate all of suggestions so far. Again something that would be great for music and home theatre. Took a bit to convince wife but she's coming around.
That 75" TV is close to a serious home theater setup :)
If you have some audio stores in your area, take her to show the looks and the sound a good setup can do, especially with some great audio content movies. And music as well.
 
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