NC Bathroom Law

[highfigh]

We can always turn to the college educated youth who will someday hold honorable and productive positions in the world to guide us.

BTW, my soon has a small pit bull, Lexi. She's spayed but every now and then will look to hump your leg for a moment. She goes to the bathroom outside wherever she wants.

Maybe she'd stop if you humped her leg.

 

[herbu]

I don't see anything about Charlotte's mandating an entirely separate bathroom for transgendered people.

You're right. The Charlotte ordinance allowed transgender people to use either bathroom they want. The addition of non-gender restrooms was proposed as an alternative for those who don't want men in the women's bathroom.

I have a serious question. How do we know if a man in the women's bathroom or locker room is transgender? How can you identify a transgender vs a pervert, voyeur, or teenager w/ raging hormones & curiosity? What would stop any man from walking into the women's locker room just to look around, and claim he was transgender if challenged?

Another serious question. How do we weigh a woman's right to privacy against a transgender's right to use the women's bathroom? Is there no solution where one right doesn't negate the other?

Shady, your vitriol is not helpful, but I appreciate your reasoned contribution.

 

[markw]

While 99.7 % of Americans are quite satisfied with the gender nature has assigned them, that leaves .3 % as confused.

I see a simple solution here.

To maintain the segregation of sexes for the 99.7%, leave the existing male/female bathrooms as they are and create a separate "one holer" for the .3% "other" or "confused" segment of the population.

Everybody happy. Unless, of course, some are more intent on flaunting their sexual confusion issues on others.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/16/princeton-prof-transgenderism-not-scientific-superstitious-belief/

 

[Chu Gai]

While 99.7 % of Americans are quite satisfied with the gender nature has assigned them, that leaves .3 % as confused.

I see a simple solution here.

To maintain the segregation of sexes for the 99.7%, leave the existing male/female bathrooms as they are and create a separate "one holer" for the .3% "other" or "confused" segment of the population.

Everybody happy. Unless, of course, some are more intent on flaunting their sexual confusion issues on others.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/16/princeton-prof-transgenderism-not-scientific-superstitious-belief/

I seem to recall something similar to that has been proposed in some school districts. The option proposed was that the transgendered students use something like the nurse's bathroom. That has been met with strong condemnation by the parents of the transgender child as well as the transgender person since it singles them out and makes them feel less a female/male - a freak if you will. This is then perceived and positioned as discrimination.

Now, I know folks have expressed concerns regarding the safety of their children but it does bear noting that recently a teenaged girl was beaten by other girls in a girl's bathroom to the point she died.

 

[shadyJ]

You're right. The Charlotte ordinance allowed transgender people to use either bathroom they want. The addition of non-gender restrooms was proposed as an alternative for those who don't want men in the women's bathroom.

I have a serious question. How do we know if a man in the women's bathroom or locker room is transgender? How can you identify a transgender vs a pervert, voyeur, or teenager w/ raging hormones & curiosity? What would stop any man from walking into the women's locker room just to look around, and claim he was transgender if challenged?

Another serious question. How do we weigh a woman's right to privacy against a transgender's right to use the women's bathroom? Is there no solution where one right doesn't negate the other?

Those are good questions, and I don't have answers to them right off the top of my head. I would only point out, as others have done, that it looks like transgendered people are far more often the victims of assault than vice-versa, and this looks to be what prompted the non-discrimination law in the first place. As I have said, as far as I know, transgender people have always used the bathroom of the sex they identify with. The non-discrimination law codifies that, and in this sense it is almost the historically conservative position here. I don't think the non-discrimination law is mere provocation by liberals who are trying to bolster their progressive credentials. There are too many stories of transgendered people who have been victims of attacks for that, from what I can see. I would say if the non-discrimination law becomes a problem for the reasons you pointed out, it should be altered or amended. On the whole, I think North Carolina's legislature are the ones doing the ideological grandstanding here.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

I have a serious question. How do we know if a man in the women's bathroom or locker room is transgender? How can you identify a transgender vs a pervert, voyeur, or teenager w/ raging hormones & curiosity? What would stop any man from walking into the women's locker room just to look around, and claim he was transgender if challenged?

...

How did you prevent that hormone raged teen or pervert from entering women's bathrooms in the past?
You didn't.

 

[herbu]

How did you prevent that hormone raged teen or pervert from entering women's bathrooms in the past?
You didn't.

True. But it was illegal and punishable. You cannot stop any unacceptable behavior. You can only deter and punish it.

 

[herbu]

North Carolina's legislature are the ones doing the ideological grandstanding here.

I agree there are problems. The legislature attached unrelated items to this law, (as legislatures everywhere do). There is stuff about minimum wage and lawsuits against the state that have no business in this law. I hate it when they do that. In my view it is purely political vote trading.

But I think implementation must be considered when passing a law. Even when the intent is honorable, passing an ordinance or law with no clear path to implementation is premature, and that's where I think Charlotte went wrong. Their approach is a case where the cure is worse than the disease. This issue needs more work.

Fortunately, now that it's become a national hot potato, we have 49 other states to help with an equitable solution. So far I've seen a lot of condemnation of NC. But I have not seen any state pass their version of Charlotte's ordinance making it legal for men to use the women's facilities. Odd.

 

[everettT]

Who uses a public restroom

 

[Steve81]

But it was illegal and punishable.

It still is. If you get caught taping/peeping on guys in a men's room with your cell phone, how far do you expect the defense of "but I'm just a dude using the guy's bathroom" will get you? Conversely, if I walk into a women's restroom, either by human error or because its an emergency and no other facilities are available, does it matter? IMHO, so long as the individual stalls offer a reasonable degree of privacy, not really.

 

[Chu Gai]

This bathroom kerfuffle is not playing out for we we may go Steve as adults. It's being played out in schools.

 

[markw]

Who uses a public restroom

When nature calls, one must answer.

 

[Steve81]

It's being played out in schools.

I don't know that the "pervert, voyeur, or teenager w/ raging hormones & curiosity" concern really matters as much there. Given the relatively small population of even a large high school, people know who the transgender kid is, vs kids trying to get a peep show.

 

[markw]

I don't know that the "pervert, voyeur, or teenager w/ raging hormones & curiosity" concern really matters as much there. Given the relatively small population of even a large high school, people know who the transgender kid is, vs kids trying to get a peep show.

Such being the case, if the LGBT community is so afraid of being mugged by the str8's, they would welcome their own facilities.

 

[Steve81]

Such being the case, if the LGBT community is so afraid of being mugged by the str8's, they would welcome their own facilities.

I can't really say what the LGBT community would consider acceptable (assuming their opinions are uniform in the first place). As Chu mentioned, I've read that "use the bathroom in the nurses office" isn't considered a viable solution. Dedicated gender neutral/unisex facilities might be, but then you get back to the issue of $$$.

 

[mtrycrafts]

True. But it was illegal and punishable. You cannot stop any unacceptable behavior. You can only deter and punish it.

There you go. So, any safety issues are already have been covered by laws.

 

[mtrycrafts]

This bathroom kerfuffle is not playing out for we we may go Steve as adults. It's being played out in schools.

Yes, indeed. And the youth are the ones who already have been texting selfies in the nude, hardly prudes.
No, I think it is parent driven concerns only. But, I have been known to step on my privates, or been mistaken, from time to time.

 

[highfigh]

When nature calls, one must answer.

So, what's wrong with killing a shrub?

 

[highfigh]

I don't know that the "pervert, voyeur, or teenager w/ raging hormones & curiosity" concern really matters as much there. Given the relatively small population of even a large high school, people know who the transgender kid is, vs kids trying to get a peep show.

What about a high school that has 8000 students?

 

[highfigh]

I can't really say what the LGBT community would consider acceptable (assuming their opinions are uniform in the first place). As Chu mentioned, I've read that "use the bathroom in the nurses office" isn't considered a viable solution. Dedicated gender neutral/unisex facilities might be, but then you get back to the issue of $$$.

I was discussing this with a friend and he made the point that schools had talked about installing a third rest room over 20 years ago, but it didn't get any traction.