Damping Factor

[TLS Guy]

Every one of them

Yes.

Why do you care?

 

[Natra]

Yes.

Why do you care?

I just prefer A/B amplifiers.

 

[markw]

I just prefer A/B amplifiers.

Can we ask why? That's kinda like deciding on a car by it's tire size.

 

[Natra]

Can we ask why? That's kinda like deciding on a car by it's tire size.

In my humble opinion, I feel like class A/B amplifier sounds much better and has more control over the speakers

 

[TLS Guy]

In my humble opinion, I feel like class A/B amplifier sounds much better and has more control over the speakers

Your opinion is wrong. The fact is that as soon as you place a choke between the amp terminals and the bass speaker, the amp has ZERO control over the speaker. Even a few feet of wire negates any feedback between speaker and amp.

The next issue is that damping is not class dependent.

It is this sort of nonsense that encourages audiophoolery.

 

[Natra]

Your opinion is wrong. The fact is that as soon as you place a choke between the amp terminals and the bass speaker, the amp has ZERO control over the speaker. Even a few feet of wire negates any feedback between speaker and amp.

The next issue is that damping is not class dependent.

It is this sort of nonsense that encourages audiophoolery.

Have you ever listened to an AB amplifier. I can assure you I don't care about specs and I'm not that kind of guy that cares about cables but the fact is a fact. I just accept what my ears are telling me I've done plenty of a/b testing when I simply cannot hear the difference between CD players or dac or cables but I can't hear the difference between speakers and amplifiers and what I'm hearing is when I turn the volume up it is as pleasurable to listen to as it is when I have it in low volumes that is what I mean by control and the base is much funner and this is what I'm hearing so I don't know what you're talking about but please clarify.

 

[Irvrobinson]

It is very good but all his amplifier needs about a half an hour to an hour to warm up but after that they come alive.

Solid state amplifier warm-up is another audiophile myth, meaning the notion that audio quality substantially improves after the amplifier runs for some extended period of time (like 30 minutes). The only thing that is warming up is the listener's brain.

 

[mtrycrafts]

In my humble opinion, I feel like class A/B amplifier sounds much better and has more control over the speakers

Yes, that is all it is, your feeling, not facts. But, that is fine just don't present it as fact.

 

[TLS Guy]

Have you ever listened to an AB amplifier. I can assure you I don't care about specs and I'm not that kind of guy that cares about cables but the fact is a fact. I just accept what my ears are telling me I've done plenty of a/b testing when I simply cannot hear the difference between CD players or dac or cables but I can't hear the difference between speakers and amplifiers and what I'm hearing is when I turn the volume up it is as pleasurable to listen to as it is when I have it in low volumes that is what I mean by control and the base is much funner and this is what I'm hearing so I don't know what you're talking about but please clarify.

Well of course I have listened to A/B amps. Who hasn't?

But A/B amps are also all over the map, as the transition from A to B is set anywhere the designer chooses. That is why some A/B amps run hotter than other at the same power delivery.

I happen to use current dumping amps which give class A performance without the fuss and unreliability. I do it because of elegance of design and long term reliability.

Here is the math that shows that damping does not control the speaker unless the amp is pretty much welded to the terminals of the speaker driver.

Not that damping is not important, it is. It is NOT the amplifiers task to do the damping. It is the speakers!

As I have pointed out for years it all comes down to Q, which is a vital and important spec.

Under damped speakers are and have been for years a huge problem limiting audio quality.

I have spent most of my life building and designing properly damped speakers.

Now this is a properly damped speaker.

 

[Natra]

Solid state amplifier warm-up is another audiophile myth, meaning the notion that audio quality substantially improves after the amplifier runs for some extended period of time (like 30 minutes). The only thing that is warming up is the listener's brain.

Okay then I challenge you to listen to a Bladelius thor 2 amplifier and if you cannot hear the sound changes after 30 minutes then I would give you the amplifier. You can ask anybody that owns Bladelius thor 2 amplifier and everybody's hearing the same thing we're not imagining this and like I said before I'm not one of those persons that believes in cable who believes in synergistic research or something like that and I don't care about any manufacturer I'm just telling you what I'm hearing and I'm over 100% sure that you will hear the same thing I'm so sure but if I'm wrong I will pay that ticket to come to Sweden or we can go to the factory and listen to all his amplifiers and you will hear the difference in sound.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Okay then I challenge you to listen to a Bladelius thor 2 amplifier and if you cannot hear the sound changes after 30 minutes then I would give you the amplifier. You can ask anybody that owns Bladelius thor 2 amplifier and everybody's hearing the same thing we're not imagining this and like I said before I'm not one of those persons that believes in cable who believes in synergistic research or something like that and I don't care about any manufacturer I'm just telling you what I'm hearing and I'm over 100% sure that you will hear the same thing I'm so sure but if I'm wrong I will pay that ticket to come to Sweden or we can go to the factory and listen to all his amplifiers and you will hear the difference in sound.

You've got to be kidding, and you are deluding yourself. For one thing, just the literature on that Bladelius amp is laughable. I especially like the part where it's "fully balanced", but has a single-ended input stage. What does that mean? This is a run of the mill 165w/ch solid state class AB integrated amp with a larger than normal (for the power output) power transformer, because audiophiles like big transformers. It uses four pairs of power transistors per channel, which is nothing special, it isn't rated into 4 ohm loads, no less 2 ohm loads, and it doesn't even state a noise specification. If I were in the market for an integrated amplifier I wouldn't give this product any consideration at all. And the advertising copy makes me want to puke; an "endless supply of power for any load"? They can't even get the input impedance specification straight, stated as 20Kohms in one place, and 50K in another.

There is nothing magic about this amp, it is made out of the same components many other amps are made out of, using, perhaps, some minor variation of a very typical circuit topology, and there's nothing about it that would indicate that somehow its operating characteristics are going to change dramatically after it warms up.

I'm not going to Sweden, even for free, so that you can try to convince me to be delusional along with you.

 

[markw]

Okay then I challenge you to listen to a Bladelius thor 2 amplifier and if you cannot hear the sound changes after 30 minutes then I would give you the amplifier.

If a solid state amplifier sounds different after half an hour, there's a serious design defect there. That some find this a positive is troubling and causes me to question whether the have any clue as to what the are talking about. Of course, this assumes there really is a change in the sound, not their conception. That in itself is a bit disconcerting.

You've been sold either a defective amp, a bill of goods, or both.

 

[Natra]

You've got to be kidding, and you are deluding yourself. For one thing, just the literature on that Bladelius amp is laughable. I especially like the part where it's "fully balanced", but has a single-ended input stage. What does that mean? This is a run of the mill 165w/ch solid state class AB integrated amp with a larger than normal (for the power output) power transformer, because audiophiles like big transformers. It uses four pairs of power transistors per channel, which is nothing special, it isn't rated into 4 ohm loads, no less 2 ohm loads, and it doesn't even state a noise specification. If I were in the market for an integrated amplifier I wouldn't give this product any consideration at all. And the advertising copy makes me want to puke; an "endless supply of power for any load"? They can't even get the input impedance specification straight, stated as 20Kohms in one place, and 50K in another.

There is nothing magic about this amp, it is made out of the same components many other amps are made out of, using, perhaps, some minor variation of a very typical circuit topology, and there's nothing about it that would indicate that somehow its operating characteristics are going to change dramatically after it warms up.

I'm not going to Sweden, even for free, so that you can try to convince me to be delusional along with you.

What is wrong with you, if I'm telling you that the sound will change not dramatically but the bass will get tighter and the highs will get smoother. What will I gain if I'm lying or making this up and I'm also telling you that you can yourself come and listen and if you're so sure about your theory then man up and, listen for yourself and then you can prove me wrong. And your logic is just not right what do you think every Mercedes-Benz E-Class drives the same I have two exactly same cars and they're different to have the same parts and everything but they drive differently. And how can you talk about something you have never heard have you driven a Ferrari if you have then you know how it is to drive a Ferrari but if you haven't driven that what do you know about how it is to drive a Ferrari.

 

[Natra]

If a solid state amplifier sounds different after half an hour, there's a serious design defect there. That some find this a positive is troubling and causes me to question whether the have any clue as to what the are talking about. Of course, this assumes there really is a change in the sound, not their conception. That in itself is a bit disconcerting.

You've been sold either a defective amp, a bill of goods, or both.

View attachment 18247

Everybody that owns this amplifier and that has reviewed this amplifier says exactly the same thing so is everybody wrong. I personally think that until the amp is warmed up you cant not getting the full sound and I don't have a reason to make this up I've also have friends over and they have listened and they are no audio files and they can hear the difference. I just cannot understand how you can talk without you haven't listenin to the amplifier.

 

[markw]

And everyone that's seen flying saucers claim they are real. But the rest of us are still waiting for proof.

you can "think" what you want but that doesn't mean it's real. And, didja ever think that maybe your friends are just humoring you?

 

[Natra]

I am so disappointed where this forum I thought that the people that are here don't go for the hype and they listen and makes their judgment after that.

And everyone that's seen flying saucers claim they are real. But the rest of us are still waiting for proof.

you can "think" what you want but that doesn't mean it's real. And, didja ever think that maybe your friends are just humoring you?

I cannot believe this what more proof do you want then to go and listen for yourself is my English that bad that you cannot understand this.
What is this, this is audio equipment you need to listen to it not just read the specs

 

[Irvrobinson]

What is wrong with you, if I'm telling you that the sound will change not dramatically but the bass will get tighter and the highs will get smoother. What will I gain if I'm lying or making this up and I'm also telling you that you can yourself come and listen and if you're so sure about your theory then man up and, listen for yourself and then you can prove me wrong. And your logic is just not right what do you think every Mercedes-Benz E-Class drives the same I have two exactly same cars and they're different to have the same parts and everything but they drive differently. And how can you talk about something you have never heard have you driven a Ferrari if you have then you know how it is to drive a Ferrari but if you haven't driven that what do you know about how it is to drive a Ferrari.

I can't speak to whatever differences you imagine in your Mercedes, but cars are mechanical devices, solid state amplifiers are not. If you said your Mercedes drives differently after getting hot, I could believe it, because, for example, gasoline engine management systems sometimes reduce ignition timing advance or adjust mixture based on temperature-related engine behaviors, like knocking (pre-ignition). On the other hand, what you are describing, that the frequency response, distortion, or SNR of a properly operating solid state amplifier will change *audibly* after 30min of normal operation is ridiculous. What is wrong with me is that warm-up in solid state amplifiers has been studied, and while there are measurable differences in distortion and noise, the differences are tiny and almost certainly inaudible. You and everyone reporting these differences are almost certainly imagining things based on preconceived expectations. I also have never seen ghosts, but if you claim to see one I can comfortably assume you're imagining things.

 

[Natra]

I can't speak to whatever differences you imagine in your Mercedes, but cars are mechanical devices, solid state amplifiers are not. If you said your Mercedes drives differently after getting hot, I could believe it, because, for example, gasoline engine management systems sometimes reduce ignition timing advance or adjust mixture based on temperature-related engine behaviors, like knocking (pre-ignition). On the other hand, what you are describing, that the frequency response, distortion, or SNR of a properly operating solid state amplifier will change *audibly* after 30min of normal operation is ridiculous. What is wrong with me is that warm-up in solid state amplifiers has been studied, and while there are measurable differences in distortion and noise, the differences are tiny and almost certainly inaudible. You and everyone reporting these differences are almost certainly imagining things based on preconceived expectations. I also have never seen ghosts, but if you claim to see one I can comfortably assume you're imagining things.

I have to ask you what kind of equipment do you own

 

[Natra]

There are two Extremes in HiFi audio on the one hand you have those just believe that everything makes a difference cables Dac HiFi furniture spikes and Exedra and then you have the Other Extreme that goes so blindly what science is telling them that they simply cannot accept something even if they hear it or see it because science has not proven it to be true I thought that's audioholics was the middle path so wrong I was.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have to ask you what kind of equipment do you own

Why is that relevant?