Psa 15v vs hsu vtf 15h mk2

[Bert biscuit]

Which is the better product? Psa's entry level subwoofer...or hsu's flagship? FWIU, the slight performance increase between the 15v and v1500 is not audible. This will be for an audioholics "extreme" room size. 50/50 music/movies. Usually listen at -15db or lower. Suggestions from other companies will be ignored, thanks.

I am leaning towards the 15v for its more manageable size. Edit: I have narrowed it down to these 2 because I don't want to spend more than a thousand bucks.

 

[shadyJ]

Between those two, the VTF15h mk2 easy. If you are interested in a more manageable size, I would also be looking at the Hsu VTF3 mk5, that is a beast. Also, the Reaction Audio Echo 15 and Rythmik Audio FVX15.

 

[Bert biscuit]

Between those two, the VTF15h mk2 easy. If you are interested in a more manageable size, I would also be looking at the Hsu VTF3 mk5, that is a beast. Also, the Reaction Audio Echo 15 and Rythmik Audio FVX15.

I ruled out reaction audio because of the lead times. I also ruled out SVS and rythmik because they didn't have a $1000 contender...but I completely forgot rythmik makes a fvx15. How does that compare to these 2 subs?

What makes the vtf 15h mk2 a better performer than the 15v? Output, frequency response, sound quality? The psa chart shows nearly identical measurements for the 15v/v1500 and vtf 15h mk2. Thanks.

 

[shadyJ]

I think the FVX15 would probably dig the deepest but maybe not have quite as much headroom above 20 Hz. Should still have a lot of output though. As for the VTF15h vs the 15v, I think the VTF15h mk2 is certain to be a higher performer. The PSA charts are a bit lop-sided in favor of their own products, of course. The reality is, when you look at the existing third party CEA2010 measurements, PSA always goes with the lower performance measurements for competitors' subs when there is a choice, and higher measurements than any existing third-party measurements for their own subs. Their charts can not be taken seriously and are misleading. I will inevitably get called 'biased' for pointing this out, I always do, but don't take my word for anything, the numbers are all publicly available, so anyone can see that for themselves. One more thing, I think the Reaction sub is probably the most powerful of any of these, but it is the largest and heaviest.

 

[billy p]

@shadyJ
Meh....I no longer have a dog in this fight. I would even hasten to say you single handily drove more people to buy or research PSA subs than any other member I know. At there current rate of sales world wide maybe one day they'll eventually sponsor here as well...fingers crossed.

 

[roque13]

I can tell you that I've had a VTF-3 MK4 and VTF 15H MK 2 and I now own a PSA V1500. In my room the V1500 is louder and I have more tactile response than either of the HSU's. I had more control with the HSU because of the variable tuning, but in my room the overall output and clean bass is better with the PSA. Just my experience. And on a side note I've also owned an SVS PC12 NSD and PB10 and 12 NSD.

 

[Jaime Rittenhouse]

So my take on this... I have the VTF-2 MK3 and VTF 15H MK1... I have no other experience with any other sub/brands. I can vouch for the legitimacy of the VTF-15H MK1 and how crazy awesome it is. I know I'm using fancy words such as "crazy awesome" and all but, honestly, it's awesome. To think that in the VTF-15H MK2, Dr. Hsu has jacked up the amp and has made other improvements, I could only imagine how awesome the second iteration is...

Now with all of that being said, I can promise that whichever one you do select, you'll be happy with. The brands and models you're looking at is going to boil down to budget. If you have the budget, go bigger, if you can stretch it a bit, go even bigger. That's one word of advice that I feel is the truest when buying a sub. I know when I got the VTF-2, I thought wow, started to use it and was amazed but it wasn't enough. When I got the 15H... this gave me the biggest smile on my face, it was absolutely the best feeling ever.

Now lets talking about the difference between the VTF-2 and VTF-15H... It's HUGE, no comparison. When I received the 15H, I thought to myself, where the heck am I going to put it? So yeah, keep that in mind. Now if you don't intend to listen to music/movies very loud, you're defeating the entire purpose of going big, I think. I do think the VTF-2 can hold its own but between the two, they are in completely different classes.

Good luck.

Regards,
Jaime

 

[Bert biscuit]

Thanks guys. If I up the budget to the next pricing tier, which is the best value...

Svs pc12 plus=$1200 shipped

psa v1800=$1300 shipped

rythmik fv15hp=$1350-1400 shipped depending on whether I get the optional spike feet(I have carpet floors)

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

On such large purchase, it would seem foolish to skip Reaction Audio just due to lead times
Echo 15 and Echo 18 are solid competition vs other mentioned subs in this thread so far.

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks guys. If I up the budget to the next pricing tier, which is the best value...

Svs pc12 plus=$1200 shipped

psa v1800=$1300 shipped

rythmik fv15hp=$1350-1400 shipped depending on whether I get the optional spike feet(I have carpet floors)

None of those subs will have a serious advantage over the 1K subs. I wouldn't bother. The only one which does, as boredsysadmin said, would be the Reaction Audio subs in that range, because it has a very substantial 18" driver.

 

[Bert biscuit]

On such large purchase, it would seem foolish to skip Reaction Audio just due to lead times
Echo 15 and Echo 18 are solid competition vs other mentioned subs in this thread so far.

Its not just the lead times, its also the not going out of business question mark. I try to read the subwoofer section on avs forum as well, so I feel fairly well informed about reaction audio.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2296298-will-reaction-audio-still-around-5-years.html

 

[Bert biscuit]

None of those subs will have a serious advantage over the 1K subs. I wouldn't bother. The only one which does, as boredsysadmin said, would be the Reaction Audio subs in that range, because it has a very substantial 18" driver.

I love hearing that. What if I dropped to the $800 sub range...like the svs pc 2000 or hsu vtf 3 mk5? Do the $1000 subs have a serious advantage over the $800 subs? I guess at this point I'm wondering where the sweet spot is for value.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Its not just the lead times, its also the not going out of business question mark. I try to read the subwoofer section on avs forum as well, so I feel fairly well informed about reaction audio.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2296298-will-reaction-audio-still-around-5-years.html

I didn't read whole thread, it is a typical AVS thread with a little too low signal to noise ratio, but Jeremy's post did caught my eye:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2296298-will-reaction-audio-still-around-5-years.html#post40768802

Which sound to me like basically calling out OP as BS expert. Jeremy's forum reputation is super solid and I do believe him then he says he's doing good and expansion does take time. Hopefully he does it right.

I had been following RA and been in touch with Jeremy personally and based on my educated guess -nothing to see here but typical growth pains. His doing smart pricing and he's not really rushing to bottom of the barrel pricing like his early models and prices, but middle of the pack in top echelon of high performance subs.

PSA had a bit easier time at this since the experience of scale was already there.

 

[Bizarro_Stormy]

...I feel fairly well informed about reaction audio.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2296298-will-reaction-audio-still-around-5-years.html

I was following that thread from the beginning...
It was and is a total crapfest...

I would have locked it right off the bat, with a disclaimer, if I were a mod there...

 

[shadyJ]

I was following that thread from the beginning...
It was and is a total crapfest...

I would have locked it right off the bat, with a disclaimer, if I were a mod there...

Reaction is not a sponsor or advertiser with AVS, and AVS only protects their advertisers. Everyone else is fair game. That thread is garbage and the guy who started it is an ass.

 

[Bert biscuit]

Reaction is not a sponsor or advertiser with AVS, and AVS only protects their advertisers. Everyone else is fair game. That thread is garbage and the guy who started it is an ass.

That would make sense. Still, seeing that thread and the "Jeremy where is my sub" comments on the official reaction page is alarming to someone just browsing the forums to get a feel for the companies.

 

[shadyJ]

Agreed, the lead times can be longer than the estimates. Still, they look to pack the most punch for the dollar. If you are in a hurry for a sub, I would go with someone else. If you want the most output from the best looking sub, Reaction.

 

[Tom V.]

@shadyJ
Meh....I no longer have a dog in this fight. I would even hasten to say you single handily drove more people to buy or research PSA subs than any other member I know. At there current rate of sales world wide maybe one day they'll eventually sponsor here as well...fingers crossed.

The above is true.. Back in the days before he was banned from AVS for posting misinformation about Power Sound Audio repeatedly(like in this thread) I could tell when he was starting another trainwreck just by seeing a big surge in website traffic.

At this point he has lost so much credibility I'm not sure if I even need to bother with the false claims. Per his BS about our charts. Everyone should go check for themselves.

1)The numbers are on our products have lined up with Josh's, within something like a +/- 0.5dB window since day one.

2)When I calculate a different brand's numbers I always err on the side of over-valuing it. And I always use the closest "tuning point" for the product comparison chart. For example, if I'm comparing the pb13u to the V3600i, I use the 20hz tune as that is similar. For the PB13u and the V3600i, I used all three ports open on the svs.

Again, this is very typical of shady. He tosses out all sorts of vague accusations about me or my company in some desperate hope to damage my reputation. For the first 60 days of the year sales increased 45% from 2014 to 2015. 65% from 2015 to 2016. For some reason, people seem to be able to see through his unhealthy obsession with me..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

 

[shadyJ]

The above is true.. Back in the days before he was banned from AVS for posting misinformation about Power Sound Audio repeatedly(like in this thread) I could tell when he was starting another trainwreck just by seeing a big surge in website traffic.

At this point he has lost so much credibility I'm not sure if I even need to bother with the false claims. Per his BS about our charts. Everyone should go check for themselves.

1)The numbers are on our products have lined up with Josh's, within something like a +/- 0.5dB window since day one.

2)When I calculate a different brand's numbers I always err on the side of over-valuing it. And I always use the closest "tuning point" for the product comparison chart. For example, if I'm comparing the pb13u to the V3600i, I use the 20hz tune as that is similar. For the PB13u and the V3600i, I used all three ports open on the svs.

Again, this is very typical of shady. He tosses out all sorts of vague accusations about me or my company in some desperate hope to damage my reputation. For the first 60 days of the year sales increased 45% from 2014 to 2015. 65% from 2015 to 2016. For some reason, people seem to be able to see through his unhealthy obsession with me..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

I love the irony that you claim I am banned for spreading misinformation which is, of course, misinformation itself. Is that the actual reason why I was banned? That isn't at all what they said when they banned me. No one ever refuted my analysis of your charts, and I am not wrong then or now. I didn't engage in name-calling or personal attacks, unlike you and your circle, and I only a stated a comparison between the actual measurements and the nonsense you cooked up for your product pages. I can't help to think there may be a different reason for my ejection from AVS? After all, I didn't get all those infractions for stating the same thing before PSA became a advertiser on AVS. Don't believe me Tom? The good news is you can see for yourself! After all, for some reason ($), you have been given moderator powers on AVS- a status that is ethically questionable in light of the stated privacy policy there, not to mention that would be a bit of a conflict of interest for such a venue. Hey, wait a minute, you are a mod in a message board where I was banned? One has to wonder...


But agreed that everyone should double-check your BS charts for themselves, no one should take my word for anything, and all the numbers are publicly available.. Somehow your product numbers are always above what data-bass posts, but your stated numbers for competing products are always lower when there is alternative CEA sets. But its nice to see that your sales figures are so good, although its not quite a replacement for the performance figures of your products, which are assuredly not so boast-worthy.

 

[Defcon]

OP since no one has mentioned it yet, you should consider DIY if its an option for you, because it offers the most performance for the dollar. There are many reasons to do it, and many not to, but you should at least be aware of it.