Wife approved system?

[Woody611]

I'm pretty new to the home audio arena, outside of the tinkering with a stero system when I was in college. We are in the process of finishing our basement. We will be having a great room type thing, with a bar and table fo cards, dining, snacking etc. I'd like to jump into the world of better than tv speaker sound for watching movies and sports. The wife is pretty concerned about looks so we have sort of reached a tentative agreement that we will be mounting 4 in ceiling speakers with some kind of lcr speaker bar.

Now, to the main set of questions.
With the technology of passive sound bars evolving would a set up that uses a 5 channel soundbar paired with the 4 in-ceiling speakers provide a faux 5.1.4 Dolby Atmos system?

Would the sound be better with a 3 channel lcr speaker and then use the in ceilings as surrounds in a more traditional 5.1 or 7.1 system?

We haven't purchased any components as of yet but we are in the phase of construction that having a decision made is needed for pulling wires and what not.

I've been looking at the definitive technology mythos speaker bar and this gave me the idea of using it to create a 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 setup with the 4 in-ceiling speakers.

 

[markw]

Sound bars have their internal speakers. That's the point behind them.

If you really want good sound as opposed to a pretty box, a receiver and stand alone speakers would be the way to go.

Second choice: Above, but with surrounds wall mounted

Third: Above, but with surrounds ceiling mounted.

Finally, a sound bar, where you can't add any additional speakers.

 

[Woody611]

I should maybe clear up that the speaker/sound bars that are under consideration are of the passive variety that would be connected to a receiver, I'm also planning on getting a sub. The reason for the speaker bar is to mount the combined 3 or 5 channels in the same box and then wall mount below the tv, giving a modern clean appearance.

 

[KenM10759]

Have you given any consideration to true in-wall mounted separates? It can look very unobtrusive yet provide infinitely better sound presentation and reproduction than having all in an even row.

There are also in-wall subwoofers available, though those would never get as deep as a traditional ported box type.

https://www.kefdirect.com/index.php/kef-s-custom-install-speaker-placement-tool

You barely notice these in the wall. The grilles on the KEF Ci series can be painted to match any wall.

 

[markw]

I should maybe clear up that the speaker/sound bars that are under consideration are of the passive variety that would be connected to a receiver, I'm also planning on getting a sub. The reason for the speaker bar is to mount the combined 3 or 5 channels in the same box and then wall mount below the tv, giving a modern clean appearance.

you might be able to get the front three channels in one box. It'll sound bad, but I think it can be done.

As for the other two speakers, why? They are surround channels and are made to go to your side/rear.

What passive sound bars are you talking about?

Also, sound bars aren't made to fill a large area such as you're describing.

 

[Woody611]

Here are the passive sound bars considered so far:
(Sorry, I can't post links until I have 10 posts)

7 channel
Polk surround bar 500 cht


5 channel
Definitive technology mythos ssa 5

3 channel
Definitive technology mythos ssa 3
Klipsch gallery 42




I hadn't really considered the 5 or 7 channel systems due to the ability to mount the 4 in-ceiling speakers. I stumbled across the 5/7 channel systems while researching the combined left,center,right 3 channel speaker boxes. I thought the combined ability of a 5 channel soundbar with the in-ceiling speakers might have been an interesting concept.

Originally I was thinking that the 4 in-ceiling would be the left, right, and 2 surround speakers in a 5.1 system, with a single center speaker either wall mounted or free standing on the cabinet. I had scrapped that idea after reading that it was less than ideal to have left/right speakers overhead. Maybe I should reconsider?

I should also mention the ceiling is ~10 foot.

 

[markw]

Personally, I'd be thinking about some decent in-wall speakers, at least for the front three channels. You can't expect any semblance of surround sound when all speakers are in the same cabinet. That's like trying to get a stereo effect when both speakers are in the came cabinet inches apart.

 

[KenM10759]

I thought the emphasis was "spouse approval factor", with some consideration give to overall sound quality and budget not mentioned. Is that last one such an issue that you would seriously consider those products over in-wall mounted pieces that may cost more though do a more effective job of producing stereo and/or surround sound?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

One point others didn't made sufficient emphasis yet:
More speakers doesn't necessarily means better sound, in some cases even a simple pair of good speakers will sound better than bad 7.2.2.42.4 or whatever latest format is

 

[KEW]

First-off thank you for coming here and asking before you bought them! You don't know how many people get excited about their purchase and come here for approval! You may decide, in the end, for your needs, that the soundbar and in ceiling is your best option; however, you will know the trade-offs and make an informed choice!

The people here are into audio and looking for a realistic and open soundstage.
You will not get that from having your front three speakers all in the same box! For a typical listening room, you are 10-18' from the TV (and front speakers). Having the LCR all within a 4' (or less) span. The sound for movies is mixed with the idea that your L & R will be spread out. Here is a simple discussion of speaker placement:
https://sewelldirect.com/learning-center/speaker-placement

Have you considered On-wall speakers? They are usually about 4" deep and mount flat on the wall.
(I am not recommending this model, I have no idea of their quality, it was simply the image I found first)

The speakers are more conspicuous than in-wall, but if it is more about not having speakers "in" the room than their visual presence, this is a good option. Since this is a basement, in-walls may be difficult.
Just wanted to throw out another possibility.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

few more on-wall options:
http://www.goldenear.com/products/supersat-series
http://www.sourcespeaker.com/LS26.html
http://www.nhthifi.com/products/10674-absolute-wall-speaker-black?category_id=1964854-surround-speakers

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm pretty new to the home audio arena, outside of the tinkering with a stero system when I was in college. We are in the process of finishing our basement. We will be having a great room type thing, with a bar and table fo cards, dining, snacking etc. I'd like to jump into the world of better than tv speaker sound for watching movies and sports. The wife is pretty concerned about looks so we have sort of reached a tentative agreement that we will be mounting 4 in ceiling speakers with some kind of lcr speaker bar.

....

Welcome is in order.
I really feel for you about the choice that is mandated for you at home.
I wonder if you could explain to your spouse that this room is a basement room, not your main living or dining room.
Floor standing speakers do not detract from looks, just different.
Or, as KEW so well posted wall mounted speakers can look very good and certainly sound a lot better than what you are asking about.
Ceiling speakers will not hack it well at all. Background sound is about their limit.

How large is the TV you are proposing to have? The whole space for your setup?

If none of what has been recommended works for your spouse, then I would just leave the decision making in her hand?

 

[Woody611]

Thanks for all the advice so far.

My budget for the speakers, sub, and receiver is $2500. I'm not necessarily looking for a studio level sound, just something that sounds good. Keep in mind that I've never had a full theater or surround system in my life so anything will be a huge step up from tv speakers.

Do in wall/ on wall speakers provide for a better sounding system than using bookshelf speakers? I'm guessing that the spacing has something to do with it?

I'm not sure if my "untrained" ears will know the difference between a wide or narrow soundstage. I wish I could go check some of these options out to ear the difference, the only thing around here is bestbuy.

 

[Woody611]

We will be getting a tv in the 60-70" range

 

[KEW]

How large is your room?

I think there is a practical issue of how effective 7 channels is if the room is not so large, but I will defer to the HT experts.

 

[markw]

with your budget, you're selling yourself short with sound bars and even in ceiling or in wall speakers.

You can get a pretty decent, no, very decent, 5.1 system for that kind of $$. Either towers or bookshelves will work quite well. Personally, I'd go with towers for the front R/L, a matching center and bookshelves (or in walls if you must) for surrounds. And, you should be able to pick up a very decent sub as well.

 

[TLS Guy]

Here are the passive sound bars considered so far:
(Sorry, I can't post links until I have 10 posts)

7 channel
Polk surround bar 500 cht


5 channel
Definitive technology mythos ssa 5

3 channel
Definitive technology mythos ssa 3
Klipsch gallery 42




I hadn't really considered the 5 or 7 channel systems due to the ability to mount the 4 in-ceiling speakers. I stumbled across the 5/7 channel systems while researching the combined left,center,right 3 channel speaker boxes. I thought the combined ability of a 5 channel soundbar with the in-ceiling speakers might have been an interesting concept.

Originally I was thinking that the 4 in-ceiling would be the left, right, and 2 surround speakers in a 5.1 system, with a single center speaker either wall mounted or free standing on the cabinet. I had scrapped that idea after reading that it was less than ideal to have left/right speakers overhead. Maybe I should reconsider?

I should also mention the ceiling is ~10 foot.

Don't waste your time on money. Just stick with the TV speakers.

Your wife is wrong. A good system is not ugly but enhances the space. Embrace form and function. Good systems look the way they do for a reason.

Spaces are meant to be lived in and enjoyed, not determined by some female fascist or male of ambiguous gender, of an interior designer, who has no clue how to enjoy the finer things of life.

 

[Alex2507]

leave the decision making in her hand?

Sorry to agree on that sour note. Whoever makes the rules ought to play the game out, following the rules. The last time somebody asked me about sound bars in the two or three hundred dollar range, I suggested they just use the speakers in the TV.

Don't waste your time on money. Just stick with the TV speakers.

Your wife is wrong. A good system is not ugly but enhances the space. Embrace form and function. Good systems look the way they do for a reason.

Spaces are meant to be lived in and enjoyed, not determined by some female fascist or male of ambiguous gender, of an interior designer, who has no clue how to enjoy the finer things of life.

Regardless of how it looks, I wrote my above response before you posted. I just didn't want to post it because it seemed harsh. However now that you brought gender, politics AND sexuality into the discussion ... I feel better about my response to mtrycrafts.

Here's the deal. If it's aesthetics that count, then make them count. Some of the best looking on walls I ever saw were the Martin Logan Voyage line. They're beautiful.

Since our living room is a whopping 12'X13' I tried using JBL on wall speakers for at least a year or two, having stepped back from using small towers.

At some point I ran into a deal on an upgrade over my former towers and could not have been happier with surpassing their sound quality even though the new towers were even bigger than the original ones and of course monstrous compared to the on wall speakers. I happily made other arrangements and concessions for space management. Now I have speakers the size of fridges and have to sleep on the porch. No, just kidding. If I had to scale back I would probably get rid of everything ... maybe even the Blu-ray player.

Like KEW said, it's good you asked before buying. With a $2500 budget I'm sure you can find a sound bar in the $1000 - $1500 range that's a clear improvement over TV speakers. Oh, also check the various TV's out there for enhanced audio capabilities. You might find your solution there.

 

[Steve81]

My budget for the speakers, sub, and receiver is $2500.

With $2,500 to spend, you've got a few options, particularly if you limit yourself to a 2 channel setup vs aiming for 5 or more speakers. The question of course is what is your wife willing to accept. I'm assuming a large black box is out, but what about a compact speaker with a high quality wood finish like this? As mentioned above, on-walls are also a relatively unobtrusive way to get better quality sound than a sound bar can provide. Something like this in the white finish has the potential to seamlessly blend into your decor.

 

[Alex2507]

Do in wall/ on wall speakers provide for a better sounding system than using bookshelf speakers?

The opposite is true. The placement of in walls can be compromised by the locations of the studs and wall resonance is always an unpredictable/unwanted addition.

On wall speakers have greater placement options and obviously wouldn't energize the wall cavity as much.

Bookshelves are the easiest to experiment with and have the advantage of having more cabinet volume.

One more thing, BSA linked a particular Source Speaker. I've heard those in action and liked them a lot.