Vintage vs Modern Audio Gear: Which is better?

[gene]

Are the glowing memories of vintage audio gear and vintage automobiles justified, or were they just mediocre machines whose performance has somehow "improved" over the decades?

Read this old-timer's assessment of both vintage muscle cars and vintage audio, based upon hands-on experience with both.

Read: Is Vintage Better than Modern for Audio Equipment?

Let us know in the discussion thread below if your still running vintage gear or if you ditched it to embrace the new. Don't forget to vote in our poll.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

By raw performance I would say modern gear is superior. But some old gear might have some nice nostalgia and different feeling to start with. Using your vintage setup might get you a feeling of meeting an old friend.

 

[Rickster71]

Even if their performance was equal, (we know in most cases it's not)
I think a remote control puts modern gear on top.

 

[KenM10759]

If we could find some miraculous way of restoring the characteristics of vintage loudspeakers to new it might be interesting to hear them. If older vacuum tubes didn't suffer from corrosion we might be able to make valid comparisons of amplifiers. It's just not practical to expect older equipment to be anything more than increasingly unreliable and overly influencing of sound reproduction.

 

[fmw]

I agree with the conclusion. Many of the modern myths of audio began in the 60's or 70's and continue today despite the fact that they are no longer true. Some of them, of course, were never true.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Regarding electronics and performance, modern gear is so far superior there's really no comparison. Modern IC technology sees to that; even discrete components are generally better and more precise due to better manufacturing. The possible exception is capacitors, because the cheap ones today tend to be crap.

For electro-mechanical devices like turntables and cartridges, I'm not convinced modern ones are any better. I think we hit the limit of LP technology years ago.

For packaging, fit and finish, feel, and sheer style, the 1960s and 1970s beat anything but the silly high-end of today's electronics. In speakers, I think the newer the better.

 

[Rick Murphy]

Paul,
You said the Altecs sounded bad, but you used them for PA speakers for your band. Why did you hate your fans?

 

[Paul Scarpelli]

Paul,
You said the Altecs sounded bad, but you used them for PA speakers for your band. Why did you hate your fans?

Rick, why do you hate the troops and America?

Actually, A7s worked will for covering a big club with nice, crisp vocals. That "crispness" gets ugly in a near field, though, and they have no bass below 70 Hz and no treble above 10 kHz or so.

 

[Paul Scarpelli]

Are the glowing memories of vintage audio gear and vintage automobiles justified, or were they just mediocre machines whose performance has somehow "improved" over the decades?

Read this old-timer's assessment of both vintage muscle cars and vintage audio, based upon hands-on experience with both.

I knew that at some point in my career, someone would call me an old-timer. That was hurtful and unnecessary, Gene. And now, I'm going to my room and I'm going to bite my pillow!

 

[Montucky]

Loved the 3rd option in the poll. Haha.

 

[3db]

For electro-mechanical devices like turntables and cartridges, I'm not convinced modern ones are any better. I think we hit the limit of LP technology years ago.

The limit may have been reached long ago but the advent of the carbon fiber tone arm and new materials used in plinths have given us significant improvement for a lower cost than what was available back in the 60's and 70s.

For packaging, fit and finish, feel, and sheer style, the 1960s and 1970s beat anything but the silly high-end of today's electronics. In speakers, I think the newer the better.

I totally agree.

 

[TLS Guy]

It all depends.

Obviously there continues to be evolution across the whole technology spectrum.
There was a time where everything was analog. The came CDs, DVD SACD, BD and now downloading and streaming.

So obviously vintage gear is not compatible with a vast amount of current technology.

However in terms of basic construction the vintage gear generally wins hands down.

A reel to reel tape recorder not designed, engineered and built to the most exacting standards will sound awful. No error correction back then!

I personally think that the best vintage turntables which play the technology of yesteryear are in the vast majority of cases better then the modern efforts.

Power amps in particular from yesteryear can perform very well indeed. The best designs have proved reliable.

Vintage FM tuners are another case in point where the best of them are vintage.

Speakers are a very mixed bag. There are very few vintage speakers that are any good. In many ways you could say the same about current ones.

However if you have a nice set of TDL speakers say from 30 to 40 years ago, they will compete against pretty much anything now and far best the majority, even expensive ones.

Then as now, there was a lot of junk about.

What is irritating is how people now laud a lot of old junk. It was junk then and is now.

The problem with providing a home and a good use for older gear, is that you have to be highly discriminating.

If you look at eBay you can see that collectors are discriminating, by the high prices paid for the best and still useful gear from out past.

I have always selected my gear with the utmost care, and have made very few bad choices over the years. The result is, I still have most of it. I have restored a few units from eBay to compliment existing units to make for a fully functional archiving studio or to an extent museum if you will.

What astounds visitors who spend any extended time here is how the sound actually compares so favorably with the best of modern gear.

Careful design makes for longevity. My rear back speakers compare favorably with my mains, yet the design was perfected between 1984 and 1994.

It really is the same with all collecting be it cars, tractors or audio.

When I bought this lake home, I thought like most lake home owners an ATV is part of the basics.

However I determined that the available ATVs were junk.

So I looked for, and bought, a 1948 Willys CJ 2A jeep. The purchase and restoration was essentially identical to the cost of a top of the line ATV in 2000.

The fact is that the CJ 2A is more useful and reliable than the the ATVs. None of the ATVs of the neighbors here bought at the same time as mine are around.

The two vintage tractors are also performing well after I bought them 17 years ago.

I'm just about to get on the old 1948 JD model A and move the large recent snowfall.

As in all things you have to be discriminating, and most are not. That is the issue.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Power amps in particular from yesteryear can perform very well indeed. The best designs have proved reliable.

I think you're only referring to Quad amps. Come on, fess up.

Vintage FM tuners are another case in point where the best of them are vintage.

I don't think FM radio can be considered high fidelity by modern standards, but some old, analog FM tuners are cool, like my Marantz 2110. I can always impress the people who don't know what they're talking about with the oscilloscope.

Speakers are a very mixed bag. There are very few vintage speakers that are any good. In many ways you could say the same about current ones.

However if you have a nice set of TDL speakers say from 30 to 40 years ago, they will compete against pretty much anything now and far best the majority, even expensive ones.

Then as now, there was a lot of junk about.

There were some very good speakers, like the Apogee ribbons (I especially like the Scintilla), the Martin-Logan electrostatics, the ADS towers, especially the L1530s, and, of course, the SoundLab electrostatics, which are still in production, and I still covet. But let's face it, these were all very expensive speakers when they were new, and there are numerous designs now for under $5K per pair that perform very, very well.

What is irritating is how people now laud a lot of old junk. It was junk then and is now.

I completely agree.

 

[3db]

TLS..did you vote?

 

[Mark of Cenla]

I prefer modern, which is why I like this forum. Most of you do too. On another audio forum I go to, vintage rules the roost. Peace and goodwill.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I don't think FM radio can be considered high fidelity by modern standards, but some old, analog FM tuners are cool, like my Marantz 2110.

Besides rare HQ internet streams, for broadcast even FM is pretty good - easily beats horrible sat radio or slightly less horrible so called Hybrid Digital radio. My local NJ/NY classic music station does actually sound quite good

 

[Paul Scarpelli]

I think you're only referring to Quad amps. Come on, fess up.


There were some very good speakers, like the Apogee ribbons (I especially like the Scintilla), the Martin-Logan electrostatics, the ADS towers, especially the L1530s, and, of course, the SoundLab electrostatics, which are still in production, and I still covet. But let's face it, these were all very expensive speakers when they were new, and there are numerous designs now for under $5K per pair that perform very, very well.

I sold Apogee speakers at retail, as well as tons of a/d/s/, and they were both state-of-the-art (gawd, I hate that term) for the time and their price range. When I think of vintage speakers, though, I think of 1950s through 1980s when the quality generally was not good. You had to do your research.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I sold Apogee speakers at retail, as well as tons of a/d/s/, and they were both state-of-the-art (gawd, I hate that term) for the time and their price range. When I think of vintage speakers, though, I think of 1950s through 1980s when the quality generally was not good. You had to do your research.

I agree. Most speakers from the 1960s through 1980s were not very good, especially box speakers. Tweeters and crossovers seemed to leave *a lot* to be desired back then. I never liked the ARs, Advents, Rectilinears, KLHs, or many of the other fashionable speakers back then. The first time I heard the Apogee Scintilla it made unhappy with most anything else at the time. The first time I heard the Quad ESL-63 I was bowled over, but that's because a very astute dealer played chamber music first. Putting on some jazz left one wondering where the bass went.

In the 1950s and 1960s, what was any good, speaker-wise?

 

[Paul Scarpelli]

In the article, I use the car analogy because it really parallels audio. To expand the thought...

In 1969 I bought a new black Mustang SportRoof with the 428 cubic inch engine and every performance option. It was unreliable, it rattled, it ran a 14-second 1/4-mile at 100 mph, and the best I got on the highway with the 3.91 Detroit Locker rear end was 17 mpg. Gross horsepower was 335, but net (the way cars are rated today) was closer to 285 HP.

I now drive a black Corvette Z06, which is also 428 cubic inches (rounded up), slightly modded to 525 HP, and it runs an 11.6 1/4-mile at 125 mph and gets 30-34 mpg at a steady 75 mph. I have had not a single issue in 32,000 miles; the point at which my vintage muscle cars were spent basket cases and pushing oil.

Okay, this is the smallest sample size, but it's typical. Vintage performance cars required constant attention and they were lucky to be as fast as a V6 Altima. I constantly hear guys in their 50s (who didn't live the muscle car era and race like I did) who brag about cross-ram wedges, Hemi Challengers, 427 Corvettes, Yenko Camaros, etc., but if you check the actual performance numbers (except maybe for the Yenko or Grand Spaulding Dodge numbers), they weren't that fast. Few stock muscle cars ran in the 13s, and even the Mustang GT350 ran a 16-flat 1/4. As a kid working as a car jockey at a Ford dealer, the GT350 didn't feel fast to me at all.

But, as with vintage audio, that doesn't mean old muscle cars weren't cool rolling works of art. I love my 1962 McIntosh separates, even though my new Lyngdorf electronics are much more accurate and enjoyable. I fully support the refurbishing of old cars as well as restoring vintage audio gear, but I don't really want to drive one or listen to them.

 

[Paul Scarpelli]

I agree. Most speakers from the 1960s through 1980s were not very good, especially box speakers. Tweeters and crossovers seemed to leave *a lot* to be desired back then. I never liked the ARs, Advents, Rectilinears, KLHs, or many of the other fashionable speakers back then. The first time I heard the Apogee Scintilla it made unhappy with most anything else at the time. The first time I heard the Quad ESL-63 I was bowled over, but that's because a very astute dealer played chamber music first. Putting on some jazz left one wondering where the bass went.

In the 1950s and 1960s, what was any good, speaker-wise?

Actually, if you just concentrated on midrange and didn't care about dynamics or output (those are some huge caveats), Quad made very fine speakers. Midrange was startling and glorious.