Is this a safe system setup?

[Jose F. Clark]

 

[markw]

I have absolutely NO idea what you're trying to do here.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

+1

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[shadyJ]

Looks like he is trying to wire some speakers in series, probably a car audio system. It looks to me like the resistance is going to be higher than 12 ohms which the diagram suggests. The safety of that system depends on how hard you blast the amp since it will be a high resistance load.

 

[lsiberian]

I'm gonna suggest you invest in an amp with enough channels to do this for you. A Chip amp is not that expensive and should give you enough channels to drive the speakers.

 

[markw]

I don't think that OP realizes that the input impedance of a powered sub is much higher than the stated 8 ohms. That's so it doesn't present an objectionable load on the amplifier and is essentially invisible to the amp.

Come to think about it, didn't he try to pull this same crap a few months ago?

 

[j_garcia]

Where's the crossover?

 

[KenM10759]

Looks like a completely safe way of getting sound surrounding you....for the milliseconds before the amp fries. And an impossible way of getting surround sound.

 

[markw]

I thought this looked familiar.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/help-connecting-speakers-to-my-sansui-8000.94513/

Apparently he didn't like the answers he got then and now he's hoping for different ones.

 

[TheWarrior]

I thought this looked familiar.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/help-connecting-speakers-to-my-sansui-8000.94513/

Apparently he didn't like the answers he got then and now he's hoping for different ones.

Stop feeding the TROLLS!!!

 

[Seth=L]

His diagram seems to indicate he subwoofers are powered, their impedance should be irrelevant.

So unless my understanding of series wiring is incorrect (or the information I'm assuming is incorrect) each speaker connection on the receiver is seeing a 16 ohm load, however once the a+b parallel each amplifier channel should see an 8 ohm load.

So each speaker channel has two 8 ohm speakers connected to it that are series wired, correct?

If the subwoofers are powered why are we not using the Sansui 8000's stereo preamplifier outputs to feed them a far more stable input and trim down your speaker wire use and needless complication of wiring?

 

[Seth=L]

Jose,

If you are after concert like production I suggest looking for new speakers that will can do it. Adding more speakers will not likely improve your sonic experience and by complicating your wiring you run the very high risk of damaging the valuable Sansui 8000 receiver, which I know you wish to avoid. It was not designed for the kind of use you intend. Transversely you would not use a Corvette to haul a trailer full or wood and you also would not use a F150 for a straight line race. There are audio products available at a wide variety of prices that were designed to do what you want, but the Sansui 8000 and likely all the speakers you have that you're thinking of connecting to it aren't designed to do what you want. Pushing them to do what you want when they are not capable will result in damage and ultimately total discouragement.

 

[KEW]

I thought this looked familiar.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/help-connecting-speakers-to-my-sansui-8000.94513/

Apparently he didn't like the answers he got then and now he's hoping for different ones.

Good catch!

In another post, you said memories is all you have left! With that good of a memory, your memory from years gone by may be better than mine from last week!!!

 

[Jose F. Clark]

Hi All, thank you for answering. I have a dedicated listening room (12Wx 15Lx?H) The ?H is because the side walls are only 4' high before they angle in (+/- 45 degrees) towards a flat ceiling (3' 8"W). All the speakers will be above that 4' side wall height. My amp has "A" and "B" speaker outputs that can be turned on both at the same time (Both Amp outputs are in parallel then), and the manual says to use speakers which are 8 ohms or higher. I know I asked this before but I've done research since, and Richard Pierce (Professional Audio Development), who discussed the series connected question, had this to say: "I went back to the Thiele-Small Derivations... Completely counterintuitive to me... But Physics is Physics: Series those puppies up." and also found out yesterday that my G-8000 has Pre-amp posts (Left & Right) to which I can connect my subwoofers (Line output rather than the high impedance speaker line out.) What I'm after is not a multi-channel (5.1, 6.1, or 7.1) experience but rather the "sound immersion" experience you get when sitting at a music concert (second balcony-center), as my Vietnam-induced hearing losses (Go Navy!) don't allow me to be a certified "Music Audiophile". Hope this helps all to better understand what I'm after?

 

[Jose F. Clark]

"Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant, they too, have their story.

 

[markw]

Excellent quote, Jose

Between this thread and the one you posted a few months ago, if you don't have your answer by now, you never will. Perhaps you should consult with the other experts you cite here.

But, I will say this: that "12 ohms" thing is totally bogus. Recheck your math and/or your theory. I calculate the impedance presented to your two amp channels will be 8 ohms, assuming you take the sub out of the picture.

 

[j_garcia]

Ideally, you would do this with a distributed amp that plays the same signal for all speakers. What you propose is too much load for most receiver/stereo receiver/integrated amps. Is it safe? I don't think it poses a real risk other than frying the speakers (speakers will fry first IMO, not the amp). Fewer speakers and a stronger amp will achieve the results you're after as well.

As mentioned, a multichannel receiver simply set to "all channel stereo" which will result in the same thing you're trying to do without any impedance or wiring complications. That's what I would do.

 

[3db]

Not safe at all.....

“Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster, and the theory of Atlantis?

 

[Seth=L]

I'm going to repeat myself.

Hi All, thank you for answering.

No problem. We are genuinely trying to help.

I have a dedicated listening room (12Wx 15Lx?H) The ?H is because the side walls are only 4' high before they angle in (+/- 45 degrees) towards a flat ceiling (3' 8"W). All the speakers will be above that 4' side wall height.

So the speakers are going to be wall mounted and angled at a 45 degree angle? How big are these speakers?

My amp has "A" and "B" speaker outputs that can be turned on both at the same time (Both Amp outputs are in parallel then), and the manual says to use speakers which are 8 ohms or higher.

Yes, the Sansui 8000 has A & B outputs. That 8 Ohms or higher thing should not be taken absolutely literally, but the load you're talking about presenting is a "safe load".

I know I asked this before but I've done research since, and Richard Pierce (Professional Audio Development), who discussed the series connected question, had this to say: "I went back to the Thiele-Small Derivations... Completely counterintuitive to me... But Physics is Physics: Series those puppies up."

Yes, that's the only way to safely do it. But you need to be extra careful when doing this as it could end very badly if done incorrectly. In full working condition your receiver has a range of value from $400 in rough shape up to $800 if absolutely mint, possibly more. If you fry it it's immediately worth less than $300 regardless of condition.

and also found out yesterday that my G-8000 has Pre-amp posts (Left & Right) to which I can connect my subwoofers (Line output rather than the high impedance speaker line out.)

Wayne told you that in April.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/help-connecting-speakers-to-my-sansui-8000.94513/#post-1081588

What I'm after is not a multi-channel (5.1, 6.1, or 7.1) experience but rather the "sound immersion" experience you get when sitting at a music concert (second balcony-center), as my Vietnam-induced hearing losses (Go Navy!) don't allow me to be a certified "Music Audiophile". Hope this helps all to better understand what I'm after?

Ok. It's not that we don't understand what you're after. What we are saying is that the way you're going about it is far less than ideal and more than likely will not satisfy you ultimately. Sure you can wire these speakers up to your receiver and it will work if done properly. I could also put a ball hitch on a Camero and I could put a trailer on it and it would work, just not very well. Just because your impedance is safe at 8 ohms per amplifier channel does not mean you're going to get an immersive sound. You're effectively dividing your 120 watts per channel by 4 times limiting you to approximately 30 watts per speaker. Each speaker has a varying sensitivity. Lets assume out of the 4 pairs of speakers you have that one pair is 93 dB @ 1w/1m and the others are 88dB @ 1w/1m. You're going to barely notice the other 3 sets are even playing because the more efficient speakers are significantly louder at a given output level.

Now with that considered also consider this, the most power your most efficient speaker has on tap is 30 watts approximately. It has no headroom because the other 90 watts are being wasted on less efficient speakers. The output is going to sound pressed even at moderate volumes because power is being completely wasted.

So sure, electrically this will work if done properly. It's not going to sound good or even immersive. You need ONE pair of speakers that will do this for you. This is the ONLY solution to your problem other than getting an entirely different receiver (surround sound) that has digital signal processing modes that will emulate a concert experience or something of that ilk.

Ultimately, if what I wanted was a concert experience and was hard of hearing I would look at some very efficient speakers like Klipsch or possibly Cerwin Vega or older JBL and get a power amplifier of at least 200 watts to use with the preouts on the Sansui and daisy chain the Subwoofers of that if applicable.

 

[Jose F. Clark]

Thank you Seth-L, and thank you Wayne (I'd forgotten about your advice). Regarding my eight speakers sensitivity, they are all Polk TSX110 (90 dB sensitivity) - Got them at Best buy as "open box" for a fraction of the price. As for connecting them up right, I have over 45 years experience as an electronics technician - I believe I can wire things correct. Also, I never play my music past the number 3 stop (4 max) on the volume knob - my speakers surround me, equidistant from my head all around me, and are no more than 5' away from me in any direction. After much trial and error, I've found that such is the way my music sounds the best for me, regardless of the world's opinion: it's my ears, not the world's ears, that must be satisfied. Again, thank you and all who tried to help me resolve my equipment's SAFETY questions, and I wish you all much musical happiness, regardless of the ways in which you prefer to listen. "Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to your spirit: If you compare yourself to others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself". Keep on rocking the blues y'all!!!