Yamaha Integrated Amplifiers Quality and Affordability Unite!

[gene]

Yamaha has come out with a solid lineup of integrated amplifiers geared towards soothing the two-channel audiophile in all of us. If you think that these integrated amplifiers are your father’s or grandfather’s integrated, you’d be sorely mistaken. Unlike the integrated amps of yesteryear, these new models have been designed for the modern audiophile.

Each Yamaha model sports rugged build quality, a meaty amp section, a high end phono preamp and DAC to handle all of your high res sources. Best of all, they are affordable!

Read: Yamaha A-S301/501/701/801 Integrated Amplifier Preview

 

[hk2000]

About time Yamaha included digital inputs in their stereo integrated amps, unfortunatly it's too late for me, I already got an Onkyo A-9050 which compares very favorably with these Yamaha units.

 

[3db]

Yamaha has come out with a solid lineup of integrated amplifiers geared towards soothing the two-channel audiophile in all of us. If you think that these integrated amplifiers are your father’s or grandfather’s integrated, you’d be sorely mistaken. Unlike the integrated amps of yesteryear, these new models have been designed for the modern audiophile.

Each Yamaha model sports rugged build quality, a meaty amp section, a high end phono preamp and DAC to handle all of your high res sources. Best of all, they are affordable!

Read: Yamaha A-S301/501/701/801 Integrated Amplifier Preview

They are almost like "our father’s or grandfather’s integrated" in that it "sports rugged build quality, a meaty amp section, a high end phono preamp" The DAC makes it ours or our kids generation.

 

[Schurkey]

1. Why doesn't the review disclose the Country Of Origin? (Yamaha's web site offers a download of the '801 owner's manual. Back page says "Printed in Malaysia", which may or may not indicate where the product is made.)

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/amps/a-s801/
Click the "Support" tab, and then click on the owner's manual download link.

2. That same manual shows product specs for the '801, listing 8- and 6-ohm FTC power rating. While your review suggests otherwise, Yamaha doesn't rate the thing into a lower-impedance load. There's a "dynamic" IHF rating for 4- and 2-ohm loads, but that's heavily suspect, especially since...

3. ...you're supposed to flip an impedance-matching back-panel switch to "low impedance" when used with "4-ohm or greater" loads. "6-ohm or greater" loads require the switch to be flipped to "high impedance". So, again, use with lower-than-four-ohm loads seems to be questionable. WHAT DOES THIS SWITCH DO? Is it something other than a cheap current-limiter, which may protect the device, but tends to restrict power output, degrade sound quality, or both?

4. The review suggests that this amp will produce more than rated power. OF COURSE it will--at higher THD levels. The "China" version is claimed to throw 145 watts/channel (into 8 ohms, but only at 1kHz, and with TEN PERCENT THD--a specification Yamaha should be ashamed of. ONE percent THD is widely regarded as "clipping", and clipping is to be avoided. The question is how many watts will it throw while meeting the FTC standard, and at the FTC-rated distortion. I think we know that answer. The flagship '801 does not have a "meaty amp section". It does have features I like, and a lack of crap I don't need.

Overall, I'd like to audition the '801. The price may be reasonable especially at Amazon-advertised $900 when I checked a few minutes ago. I've got serious concerns about where it's made, and it's ability to drive a lower-impedance speaker pair. The '801 specs indicate to me that the amp has problems pushing current. Yamaha's winding up the volume knob until the thing screams in pain, and then claiming 145 watts per channel doesn't endear them to me, either.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha--S801SL-Natural-Integrated-Amplifier/dp/B00N30M2DW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1430463023&sr=8-2

 

[Jeepers]

1. Why doesn't the review disclose the Country Of Origin? (Yamaha's web site offers a download of the '801 owner's manual. Back page says "Printed in Malaysia", which may or may not indicate where the product is made.) http://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-channel-audio/1889705-yamaha-s801-integrated-amplifier-official-avsforum-review.html

Check http://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-channel-audio/1889705-yamaha-s801-integrated-amplifier-official-avsforum-review.html

There is a picture of the backpanel and at least that one is made in Malaysia. My Yamaha Z11 was also made in Malaysia and I never had any problems with it.

 

[hk2000]

1. Why doesn't the review disclose the Country Of Origin? (Yamaha's web site offers a download of the '801 owner's manual. Back page says "Printed in Malaysia", which may or may not indicate where the product is made.)

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/amps/a-s801/
Click the "Support" tab, and then click on the owner's manual download link.

2. That same manual shows product specs for the '801, listing 8- and 6-ohm FTC power rating. While your review suggests otherwise, Yamaha doesn't rate the thing into a lower-impedance load. There's a "dynamic" IHF rating for 4- and 2-ohm loads, but that's heavily suspect, especially since...

3. ...you're supposed to flip an impedance-matching back-panel switch to "low impedance" when used with "4-ohm or greater" loads. "6-ohm or greater" loads require the switch to be flipped to "high impedance". So, again, use with lower-than-four-ohm loads seems to be questionable. WHAT DOES THIS SWITCH DO? Is it something other than a cheap current-limiter, which may protect the device, but tends to restrict power output, degrade sound quality, or both?

4. The review suggests that this amp will produce more than rated power. OF COURSE it will--at higher THD levels. The "China" version is claimed to throw 145 watts/channel (into 8 ohms, but only at 1kHz, and with TEN PERCENT THD--a specification Yamaha should be ashamed of. ONE percent THD is widely regarded as "clipping", and clipping is to be avoided. The question is how many watts will it throw while meeting the FTC standard, and at the FTC-rated distortion. I think we know that answer. The flagship '801 does not have a "meaty amp section". It does have features I like, and a lack of crap I don't need.

Overall, I'd like to audition the '801. The price may be reasonable especially at Amazon-advertised $900 when I checked a few minutes ago. I've got serious concerns about where it's made, and it's ability to drive a lower-impedance speaker pair. The '801 specs indicate to me that the amp has problems pushing current. Yamaha's winding up the volume knob until the thing screams in pain, and then claiming 145 watts per channel doesn't endear them to me, either.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha--S801SL-Natural-Integrated-Amplifier/dp/B00N30M2DW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1430463023&sr=8-2

AFAIK, Yamaha, Marantz and Denon made their stuff in China -at least the entry and mid level models. Sony and Onkyo are mostly made in Malaysia, at least that was the case recently up until I stopped my research.

 

[gene]

1. Why doesn't the review disclose the Country Of Origin? (Yamaha's web site offers a download of the '801 owner's manual. Back page says "Printed in Malaysia", which may or may not indicate where the product is made.)

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/amps/a-s801/
Click the "Support" tab, and then click on the owner's manual download link.

2. That same manual shows product specs for the '801, listing 8- and 6-ohm FTC power rating. While your review suggests otherwise, Yamaha doesn't rate the thing into a lower-impedance load. There's a "dynamic" IHF rating for 4- and 2-ohm loads, but that's heavily suspect, especially since...

3. ...you're supposed to flip an impedance-matching back-panel switch to "low impedance" when used with "4-ohm or greater" loads. "6-ohm or greater" loads require the switch to be flipped to "high impedance". So, again, use with lower-than-four-ohm loads seems to be questionable. WHAT DOES THIS SWITCH DO? Is it something other than a cheap current-limiter, which may protect the device, but tends to restrict power output, degrade sound quality, or both?

4. The review suggests that this amp will produce more than rated power. OF COURSE it will--at higher THD levels. The "China" version is claimed to throw 145 watts/channel (into 8 ohms, but only at 1kHz, and with TEN PERCENT THD--a specification Yamaha should be ashamed of. ONE percent THD is widely regarded as "clipping", and clipping is to be avoided. The question is how many watts will it throw while meeting the FTC standard, and at the FTC-rated distortion. I think we know that answer. The flagship '801 does not have a "meaty amp section". It does have features I like, and a lack of crap I don't need.

Overall, I'd like to audition the '801. The price may be reasonable especially at Amazon-advertised $900 when I checked a few minutes ago. I've got serious concerns about where it's made, and it's ability to drive a lower-impedance speaker pair. The '801 specs indicate to me that the amp has problems pushing current. Yamaha's winding up the volume knob until the thing screams in pain, and then claiming 145 watts per channel doesn't endear them to me, either.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha--S801SL-Natural-Integrated-Amplifier/dp/B00N30M2DW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1430463023&sr=8-2

First off this is NOT a review. Secondly if you read our article on Impedance Selector switches you will understand what the switch is and why its there.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

You seem very critical of a product you know nothing bout. This 801 looks like a very nice amp section given the size of the power supply, 4 output devices per channel and large heat sink area. I have no doubt based on past experiences with Yamaha that it will deliver above rated power.

I plan on requesting a sample to review in the coming months to bench test.

As for the country of origin, I believe its made in Malaysia (the same country of origin of Revel Speakers). Does that make Revel junk too?

Who cares where it's made so long as its made well by a competent factory with skilled employees.

 

[anamorphic96]

While this does not apply to the A-S801 it does speak to the amp sections used in these integrated amps. Here is a review with third party measurements of the A-S500. Probably one of Yamaha's most popular integrated amps. It definitely exceeds the manufactures specifications.

http://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/yamaha-a-s500-amplifier-review-test-395710

Here is a review of the A-S700 with third party measurements. The A-S700 is essentially the same amp as the A-S701 and A-S801 minus digital inputs. Guess what. It exceeds the manufactures specifications.

http://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/yamaha-a-s700-amplifier-review-394235

 

[PENG]

There is nothing to be ashamed of in specifying a higher output at higher THD+N. I wish they all provide more details, but the reality is that even manufacturers of higher end products don't typically do much better so I guess Yamaha does reasonably well already, relatively speaking. If you look at comparable products such as those from HK, they would tell you their high current capability of 200A, but last time I checked they simply used the term "High instantaneous current capability" without qualifications, not even THD.

As for where the gear is made, I agree with Gene, "Who cares"). One may have reasons but in terms of quality it depends mainly on how well a company manages and executes its quality system. There are many examples of good products designed in Japan, Europe and the USA but made elsewhere. Apple may not be doing so well if they had everything made in the USA.

 

[Goliath]

Each Yamaha model sports rugged build quality, a meaty amp section, a high end phono preamp and DAC to handle all of your high res sources. Best of all, they are affordable!

Yeah, but it doesn't matter because Yamaha amplifiers sound bright! At least that's what many audiophiles think Yamaha amplifiers sound like, for some really strange reason.

Why do you think that is?

 

[highfigh]

Used to be a kind of hierarchy for production- products would start their manufacturing life in Japanese factories and if the piece was made for more than one year, they would ship the production to Indonesia, Malasia or some other country. That was when Japanese factories were the cream of the Asian manufacturing crop but as other countries have been brought into the world of large-scale manfufacturing, 'where' has stopped being a major factor, although I still hear about Chinese operations taking orders and farming them out to someone else, so they can make more money on the deal. Also, in every kind of manufacturing I have discussed/read about, the point that someone from the company whose name will be on the items needs to oversee things, or it can become a big problem. However, when the company communicates clearly with manufacturing, the end results can be excellent. The number of higher-end companies using Asian manufacturing is growing and China has been buying into some speaker manufacturers, like Tymphany (formerly Vifa/ Peerless) and Dynaudio. They own 85% of Dynaudio, at present and many operations are still done in Denmark.

I looked at Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo and other brands of integrated amps when I recently decided that I wanted to go to a dedicated two-channel system and found that some of the features I wanted weren't available, even though they had been standard on the better integrated amps of the past. The on-board DAC is becoming more common, but the lack of pre out/power amp in seems odd, to me.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah, but it doesn't matter because Yamaha amplifiers sound bright! At least that's what many audiophiles think Yamaha amplifiers sound like, for some really strange reason.

Why do you think that is?

You're saying that some amps don't tend to sound a bit warm, lean or have some other characteristic sound? It's not hard to make an amp sound warm or lean, just by using different amounts of negative feedback. As much as NFB is hated, it does work.

 

[anamorphic96]

Yeah, but it doesn't matter because Yamaha amplifiers sound bright! At least that's what many audiophiles think Yamaha amplifiers sound like, for some really strange reason.

Why do you think that is?

I use to think the same until I owned a couple of integrated amps and a receiver from Yamaha. They don't sound bright. The same audiophiles say Marantz gear is warm. I have owned a couple pieces of Marantz and this is a bunch of BS as well. Ask any of these so called audiophiles to put on a blind fold and they run scared with lame excuses like little bit#$es.

 

[Goliath]

You're saying that some amps don't tend to sound a bit warm, lean or have some other characteristic sound? It's not hard to make an amp sound warm or lean, just by using different amounts of negative feedback. As much as NFB is hated, it does work.

If the amp sounded 'warm' or 'lean' it would be reflected by the frequency response. Most solid state amplifiers measure flat and more importantly, have universally low output impedances.

Now tube/valve and switch-mode designs can be exceptions to the rule, but don't always have to be, but with solid-state, the performance is predictable.

The fact that people may claim an amplifier to be 'bright' or 'lean', or 'warm' sounding when there is no evidence suggesting such a thing is more indicative of their state of mind, mood, user error, cognitive biases, day dreaming, peeking ... as opposed to 'just listening'.

Audiophiles love to pull the 'just listen' card but the reality is that they 'don't just listen' but 'peek' while listening which seems to result in all kinds of wishful thinking and false conclusions.

Do you feel I'm wrong?

 

[JRT3]

I'm betting that the output stage's resistance, best disclosed by the Damping Factor, in combination with speaker lead resistance and speaker type (ie, bass reflex or acoustic suspension) to help 'color' a given amplifiers 'sound' given a flat response and low THD & noise level. I know it helps me... after listening to a new amp... to peak at the specs... it'd help more if I knew how big the filter capacitors are... or how big (and if) it's toroidal power transformer is...

Really - we have to ask ourselves just how much is necessary - and how much is for bragging rights?

 

[Goliath]

I'm betting that the output stage's resistance, best disclosed by the Damping Factor, in combination with speaker lead resistance and speaker type (ie, bass reflex or acoustic suspension) to help 'color' a given amplifiers 'sound' given a flat response and low THD & noise level. I know it helps me... after listening to a new amp... to peak at the specs... it'd help more if I knew how big the filter capacitors are... or how big (and if) it's toroidal power transformer is...

Really - we have to ask ourselves just how much is necessary - and how much is for bragging rights?

Sure, except damping factor is one of the most over-hyped concepts in the history of audio.

If you've read the Audioholics report on damping factor you'll note that anything above a DF of 50 is irrelevant. Even if the damping factor of the amp was 5000, the resistance of the voice-coil, and speaker cabling would nullify that number to kingdom come. ; - )

 

[Goliath]

The question is how many watts will it throw while meeting the FTC standard, and at the FTC-rated distortion. I think we know that answer. The flagship '801 does not have a "meaty amp section". It does have features I like, and a lack of crap I don't need.

Depends if you have a preference for listening to sine waves at maximum power into resistive loads which turns out to be many times more demanding on the amp section than real world music and real loudspeaker loads driven as people use them in the home.

I've got serious concerns about where it's made, and it's ability to drive a lower-impedance speaker pair.

I agree with Gene, where it's made is irrelevant.

Whether it can drive lower impedance speakers or not is kind of an open-ended question, is it not? What pair of low impedance speakers are you referring to, how low in impedance, for how long, at what volume levels, at what seated distance, in what size room? Can you be a little more specific here?

The nice thing about speakers and amplifiers is that they don't typically function in a vacuum, but by people, with needs and requirements!

The '801 specs indicate to me that the amp has problems pushing current.

Er, well again, how do you qualify that claim other than inside a vacuum, exactly?

Normally in the real world the nut holding the volume control can sort of, kind of, control how much of the available voltage is supplied to the load, and ... how much of the available current is then supplied through the load, is dependent on the load, so ... how do you know there will be any problems exactly?

Thank goodness amps don't output maximum voltage by default, right? So what do you think would happen if the amp was to face a momentary 3 ohm impedance dip at some frequency? Volume levels are kind of important here, right? What about how low the frequency is at the 3 ohm impedance?

What if the music you listen to has no energy at frequencies where the speaker impedance at 3 ohms, hypothetically speaking, was at a minimum? Your insight is required!

 

[highfigh]

If the amp sounded 'warm' or 'lean' it would be reflected by the frequency response. Most solid state amplifiers measure flat and more importantly, have universally low output impedances.

Now tube/valve and switch-mode designs can be exceptions to the rule, but don't always have to be, but with solid-state, the performance is predictable.

The fact that people may claim an amplifier to be 'bright' or 'lean', or 'warm' sounding when there is no evidence suggesting such a thing is more indicative of their state of mind, mood, user error, cognitive biases, day dreaming, peeking ... as opposed to 'just listening'.

Audiophiles love to pull the 'just listen' card but the reality is that they 'don't just listen' but 'peek' while listening which seems to result in all kinds of wishful thinking and false conclusions.

Do you feel I'm wrong?

Wrong? I doubt it- When I listen to an integrated amp, receiver or preamp I don't actually care if it sounds one way or another, I just listen for differences. Assuming the power amps sound similar/same, the differences have to come from the preamp, IMO. When I have compared two or more different brands with similar/same specs, differences in sound were noted, but not necessarily objectionable unless a problem existed.

Along with the "just listen" is "just because it can't be measured, doesn't mean it's not audible".

 

[PENG]

Along with the "just listen" is "just because it can't be measured, doesn't mean it's not audible".

I think we agree on many things but not this one. We already have the science and engineering knowledge, technique and precise instruments such that we can say with confidence that if it can't be measured, it is not audible to normal people. People landed on the moon every time they tried, so what's the big deal about audio amps. Conversely if it is audible to normal people, then the causes of the audible differences can be measured. I am not saying manufacturers are measuring everything audible that need to be measured, but I am sure they can be.

I felt my ancient Marantz amp sounded a little "warmer", and by just using the $100 REW kit I was able to compare the frequency responses between it and the A21 using the same speakers. The Marantz has a little more output in the low end and also a little more in the mid high band.

 

[gene]

one thing people often forget is that Yamaha has gotten UL certification for 4 ohms on this product. most companies, don't certify their amplifiers for UL let alone 4 ohm certification. This is why in this particular case Yamaha has the impedance switch.

I am confident that this Yamaha product can drive a 4 ohm speaker quite easily and I will find out soon enough.