Baltimore

[Chu Gai]

How Freddie Gray came to have a spinal injury that resulted in his death needs to be determined and whomever was responsible prosecuted. That said, the riots that have occurred has been deplorable. Watching and reading the news, it seems everyone has a reason for what has happened.

The Baltimore city council president, who initially called the rioters thugs has backtracked and now says they're misdirected youths.
A Baltimore councilman says that Blacks rioting is just their voice to say we need you.
CNN anchor, Brooke Baldwin say returning US vets came home ready for battle.
Salon says its a legitimate political strategy.
The Baltimore mayor is said to have told the police to stand down.
Chris Matthews of MSNBC says its because of the right to work states.
Michael Eric Dyson of MSNBC says the riots are because of wealth disparity, lead poisoning, urban blight, and professional teams the Orioles and the Ravens.
The Baltimore school superintendent says we should use the riots as a teachable moment.

 

[elwaylite]

Agree. I mean the guy was running from the cops, got injured in the take down the way I see it, and was not given proper medical assistance. No reason he should have died and it is inexcusable. Now injured while running from the cops, you lose some sympathy from me, but he still deserved medical.

Regardless, attacking innocent people, as well as destroying hard working folks property, in the name of a protest, is BS.

As far as the puppets on tv, they incite this stuff while they claim they don't. It helps ratings.

 

[markw]

 

[Swerd]

Some local TV and radio news reports I've heard have illuminated the history of the relations between the Baltimore City Police and the poor black residents in the neighborhoods where Freddie Gray had been killed, and where the riots took place.

1. The police have a history of self-administered "justice" given to people they arrest. It takes the form of what is called on the street as "rough rides" or "cowboy rides". Police arrest, cuff, and sometimes shackle someone, throw him in the cage in back of police van, and drive deliberately rough, so the person is violently thrown around in the steel cage. To say the police neglected to seat-belt those they arrest is to ignore the absence of seats, and the inability of a cuffed or shackled person to protect themselves during the cowboy ride. There is no other conclusion than the police intended to injure them while avoiding cameras and witnesses. In the past 4 or 5 years, the Baltimore City Police have paid out over $6 million to settle, out of court, law suits resulting from injuries & deaths caused by such deliberate rough handling.
   
   
2. In an interview of one man on the street (late last week before the riot) who was asked whether police were needed to fight gang violence in Baltimore. His answer, "the biggest gang problem in Baltimore is the Baltimore City Police".

So yes, there is wide spread anger and resentment directed against the Baltimore City Police. You can't discuss the Baltimore riots in the absence of this background.

 

[elwaylite]

But hey, burning stuff down and shooting other cops will make me respect you more...

I'm sorry, it makes me laugh when people who make a habit of breaking the law and getting arrested complain about police profiling and assault.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

in before the this thread gets locked.
Mark, Swerd and Chu-Gai - you both should now better regarding discussing political related topic on this forum....

 

[Rickster71]

in before the this thread gets locked.
Mark, Swerd and Chu-Gai - you both should now better regarding discussing political related topic on this forum....

I don't think the word political means what you think it does.
Haven't seen one political word in the entire thread.

 

[Chu Gai]

As I recall, Gene recently commented that while he had no specific problems regarding discussions or threads that involve political matters, he leaves it up to the moderators to deal with this on a case by case basis.

I know my wife has a cousin or something like that who was in the Baltimore PD and perhaps I'll hear something about that.

As you probably know, there are professional traveling protesters who flock to these sort of situations around the country just like some used to follow the Grateful Dead. We saw them at Fergusen and also the Occupy Wall Street 'gatherings'. When names are provided and we cross reference that with social media outlets like Twitter, we can get a sense of where their heads are at. My take, which may not be anybody else's, is they're fairly hard core militant socialists/anarchists looking to disrupt things by a variety of means.

 

[Rickster71]

So yes, there is wide spread anger and resentment directed against the Baltimore City Police.

Yes agreed, therein lies the rub and the stalemate.
There's anger and resentment directed at both sides. Not only at police but at career criminals.

We can't expect to fairly discuss the riots without taking into account the bad behavior of all parties.
I often wonder what bad behavior occurred first?
Here is 25yo Freddie Gray's arrest record:

• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

 

[markw]

As I recall, Gene recently commented that while he had no specific problems regarding discussions or threads that involve political matters, he leaves it up to the moderators to deal with this on a case by case basis.

I know my wife has a cousin or something like that who was in the Baltimore PD and perhaps I'll hear something about that.

As you probably know, there are professional traveling protesters who flock to these sort of situations around the country just like some used to follow the Grateful Dead. We saw them at Fergusen and also the Occupy Wall Street 'gatherings'. When names are provided and we cross reference that with social media outlets like Twitter, we can get a sense of where their heads are at. My take, which may not be anybody else's, is they're fairly hard core militant socialists/anarchists looking to disrupt things by a variety of means.

Along these lines: http://conservativetribune.com/leading-baltimore-race-riots/

 

[Swerd]

Haven't seen one political word in the entire thread.

Exactly!

An early draft of my first post had some comments about the mayor of Baltimore and the governor of Maryland, both of whom are new in office and from opposing political parties. I wondered if they can respond to this trouble without becoming political opportunists. So far, it seems like they both are doing OK by not making things worse. Time will tell.

I decided to delete that as it had little to do with my main point about how the police and residents of some neighborhoods have already been in violent conflict for some time.

I also agree with Chu Gai's point about other types of opportunists who feed on events like this. They do exist (on both sides of the issues), but their message shouldn't be allowed to dominate.

 

[Swerd]

Here is 25yo Freddie Gray's arrest record…

I can only respond to that list by saying the police never charged him with anything after they chased him down, and 'apparently' injured him fatally in the process.

I was surprised at the absence of any charges as police have been known to concoct false charges and arrange for false evidence to appear. "Felony, running" is not an offense.

 

[Chu Gai]

Yes agreed, therein lies the rub and the stalemate.
There's anger and resentment directed at both sides. Not only at police but at career criminals.

We can't expect to fairly discuss the riots without taking into account the bad behavior of all parties.
I often wonder what bad behavior occurred first?
Here is 25yo Freddie Gray's arrest record:

• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

With a record like that, how was it that he wasn't in jail? Were he in a different state, say NJ, he'd have graduated to doing a stretch in state prison.

 

[Swerd]

With a record like that, how was it that he wasn't in jail? Were he in a different state, say NJ, he'd have graduated to doing a stretch in state prison.

Those were an arrest record, charges, not convictions. It's already been established that the police were not always fair or even legal with the way they handled things.

That area of Baltimore has about 50% unemployment and a very high crime rate. Freddie Gray was probably typical. Whatever his reason was for running from the police, his prior experience made it clear to him that running was better than getting caught again.

There are those who say that his only failure was that he didn't run fast enough.

My real point here is that the system of law enforcement in Baltimore (and elsewhere in the USA) has broken down badly. I'm not saying that police are all violent criminals who wear blue uniforms, nor am I denying that there are large populations of people inside cities who commit crimes.

 

[Rickster71]

I can only respond to that list by saying the police never charged him with anything

I was hoping for a response to my overarching point of the bad behavior of all involved.

It's ironic when 'only' the bad behavior of the police is mentioned. (Not speaking of any in thread, just in general)
There would be little/no need for police if it wasn't for the uncivil behavior.

 

[Swerd]

I was hoping for a response to my overarching point of the bad behavior of all involved.

It's ironic when 'only' the bad behavior of the police is mentioned. (Not speaking of any in thread, just in general)
There would be little/no need for police if it wasn't for the uncivil behavior.

I do tend to edit my posts after I first post them .

I added something that I hope is in the same flavor as your "bad behavior of all involved".

 

[Chu Gai]

Those were an arrest record, charges, not convictions. It's already been established that the police were not always fair or even legal with the way they handled things.

That area of Baltimore has about 50% unemployment and a very high crime rate. Freddie Gray was probably typical. Whatever his reason was for running from the police, his prior experience made it clear to him that running was better than getting caught again.

There are those who say that his only failure was that he didn't run fast enough.

My real point here is that the system of law enforcement in Baltimore (and elsewhere in the USA) has broken down badly. I'm not saying that police are all violent criminals who wear blue uniforms, nor am I denying that there are large populations of people inside cities who commit crimes.

So does that out of that long list there weren't any convictions?

 

[TheWarrior]

What debate is there, when unarmed suspects are being denied their right to trial by jury?

And to so callously disrespect the life of a fellow American.

We are not the UNITED States when its everyone for themselves. Love Thy Neighbor is just that hard huh? And I'm an atheist....

 

[Rickster71]

I guess it's becoming a "Chicken or Egg" scenario.
Wide spread anger and resentment... and what group got fed up first?
I would imagine the police are just as angry as the rioters and looters.

 

[Ponzio]

can we agree that these riots didn't occur in a vacuum? that there are legitimate and long, long standing gripes in this community and many others throughout the country and the issue will have to be addressed. if not, were all pissing in the wind ... media or no media.