No Stereo Output Issue Denon and Goldenears

[jremsen]

I am the proud owner of a pair of Golden Ears Triton Three tower speakers. I enjoy these hooked up to a fairly new Harman Kardon Stereo receiver for 2 channel stereo listening using my Thorens turntable or Rotel CD player. For Home Theater use I have a Denon AVR X4000 receiver. This AVR has 2 outputs for 2 sub woofers (LFE). Due to the uniqueness of these speakers, which have built-in sub woofers there has been much talk about getting the best low end from them during H/T applications. I have now attached the LFE outputs from the Denon AVR to the LFE inputs on each speaker and the bass seems better on movies and concert DVDs, however when I switch the AVR selector to Stereo only mode I do not have any sound coming out of any speaker. I cannot figure out why the connection of the LFE would affect my listening in stereo mode??? Thanks to any and all responding members.

 

[markw]

Some receivers do not send out a signal to the LFE channel, which is unique to multi-channel video applications, when in the stereo (two channel only) mode.

You might want to check your manual to see if this is the case.

Generally, a separate subwoofer is preferred for HT applications. In your case, this would leave your main speakers in their original "full range" configuration and all problems would be solved.

 

[slipperybidness]

Some receivers do not send out a signal to the LFE channel, which is unique to multi-channel video applications, when in the stereo (two channel only) mode.

You might want to check your manual to see if this is the case.

Generally, a separate subwoofer is preferred for HT applications. In your case, this would leave your main speakers in their original "full range" configuration and all problems would be solved.

+1

In fact, high level outputs to the speaker binding posts (not using the LFE input) is the recommended input per GE.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I assume you have both regular speaker wires going to the speakers PLUS LFE wire going to the speakers with the JUMPERS REMOVED?

That is weird. If you have wires from the Front Left & Right output of the X4000 to the regular speaker posts of the speakers, then you should get some sound out of the speakers regardless of LFE.

And I assume this is set up with the Main Zone, not zone #2.

Check the speaker configuration under both speaker manual setup and the audio setup for 2Ch/Direct. See if anything looks strange.

 

[markw]

the guy brings up a very good point. You really should not have the speakers connected to two systems at once. You're lucky nothing worse happened. ...yet.

 

[jremsen]

the guy brings up a very good point. You really should not have the speakers connected to two systems at once. You're lucky nothing worse happened. ...yet.

 

[jremsen]

Thanks for the responses. Let me clear something up, I do not have the H/K 2 channel Stereo receiver and the Denon AVR connected to these GE speakers at the same time. When I want to listen to pure 2 channel stereo I remove the speaker wires and LFE cables from the Denon AVR and just plug in the speaker wires from the H/K receiver. ACuDefTechGuy - jumpers???

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Thanks for the responses. Let me clear something up, I do not have the H/K 2 channel Stereo receiver and the Denon AVR connected to these GE speakers at the same time. When I want to listen to pure 2 channel stereo I remove the speaker wires and LFE cables from the Denon AVR and just plug in the speaker wires from the H/K receiver. ACuDefTechGuy - jumpers???

http://www.goldenear.com/images/manuals/Triton_Three_Manual.pdf

Your speakers don't have jumpers like most speakers have when they have such feature, they handle this automatically. But like said earlier you could use just left and right speaker cable and forget the LFE.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your speakers don't have jumpers like most speakers have when they have such feature, they handle this automatically.

Oh, wow. How does a speaker Automatically disconnect the Internal Crossover of the Woofers from the rest of the speaker?

 

[TLS Guy]

Oh, wow. How does a speaker Automatically disconnect the Internal Crossover of the Woofers from the rest of the speaker?

The base system is active on these speakers. The bass section has speaker level inputs and LFE.

So the connection is no different than two stereo speakers and a sub connected to the LFE.

I'm wondering if the still uncorrected software glitch is more prevalent at Denon/Marantz than just some Marantz units.

OP, go to the speaker set up menu and tell the Denon you have surround speakers, when you don't. See if you then have output from your speakers and LFE.

I have this problem with my latest Marantz pre/pro. If you just tell the stupid thing you have two front speakers and a sub you get "sweet Fanny Adams." Tell it you have surrounds, and hey presto it comes to life.

I just gave in and added a center channel. Now everything is fine, whether in two channel or 3.1.

Post back if this solves it.

 

[BlwnAway]

Double check your AVR's Subwoofer setting, in order to send the low range frequencies from your mains to the LFE outputs of your receiver, your Sub setting must be set to LFE +, of its just set to LFE it will only send the signal from the LFE channel, and unless your using multi-channel audio, there is no LFE channel for music.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Oh, wow. How does a speaker Automatically disconnect the Internal Crossover of the Woofers from the rest of the speaker?

Like TSL Guy mentioned, these towers have active bass system. I was as surprised as you when I read the manual of these speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Like TSL Guy mentioned, these towers have active bass system. I was as surprised as you when I read the manual of these speakers.

Yeah, when I owned the Def Tech BP7000SC & BP7001SC, I had to remove those gold jumpers. They also had active bass system. But I guess Sandy Gross didn't figure out how to circumvent the jumpers until now.

 

[Cos]

I have the Triton 1s and listen do not have any issues with Stereo or "Pure Direct" Not sure why you are experiencing those issues based on how you describe setting it up.


Additional notes on Proper setup for these speakers in regards to LFE

Per Sandy's words in AVS forum and what he told me in person when I met him at a dealer.

"Hi, With Triton One and Two (and usually Three), left and right channels should always be set to Large, with full range signal going to them. You should not use bass management to roll them off on the low end, with bass frequencies sent to the LFE channel. This would eliminate the advantages of stereo bass, as well as insert an additional unneeded crossover point. LFE channel should should be used for LFE signal only, unless you are trying to eliminate some of the bass from the main speakers and send it to a separate subwoofer. Thanks, Sandy"

 

[BlwnAway]

I have the Triton 1s and listen do not have any issues with Stereo or "Pure Direct" Not sure why you are experiencing those issues based on how you describe setting it up.


Additional notes on Proper setup for these speakers in regards to LFE

Per Sandy's words in AVS forum and what he told me in person when I met him at a dealer.

"Hi, With Triton One and Two (and usually Three), left and right channels should always be set to Large, with full range signal going to them. You should not use bass management to roll them off on the low end, with bass frequencies sent to the LFE channel. This would eliminate the advantages of stereo bass, as well as insert an additional unneeded crossover point. LFE channel should should be used for LFE signal only, unless you are trying to eliminate some of the bass from the main speakers and send it to a separate subwoofer. Thanks, Sandy"

This is the way he designed his original DefTech Supertowers, so that they could be used as truly Full Range towers with powered Woofers, my understanding is that DefTech marketing are the ones who decided to change things and re-label the inputs for LFE, so they could be marketed as having built in Powered "Subs" with no need to add stand alone subs. Marketing....go figure....$$$$.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

"Hi, With Triton One and Two (and usually Three), left and right channels should always be set to Large, with full range signal going to them. You should not use bass management to roll them off on the low end, with bass frequencies sent to the LFE channel..."

I don't understand this. Why have both speaker posts and LFE input if he recommends ONLY using the speaker posts?

To me the point of using both speaker posts and LFE simultaneously is to take advantage of Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which EQs the bass/sub. You can't get this if you are only using regular speaker posts. I've tried using DEQ with only 2.0 CH with the Revel Salon2 and it makes no difference in sound at all to me. DEQ is only effective with the LFE signal IMO.

 

[Cos]

I am by no means an expert on the topic, I thought the LFE still receives the bass signal, just don't add LFE+ or the bass boost thing on Onkyo receivers, I guess I need further clarification on how this works.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't understand this. Why have both speaker posts and LFE input if he recommends ONLY using the speaker posts?

To me the point of using both speaker posts and LFE simultaneously is to take advantage of Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which EQs the bass/sub. You can't get this if you are only using regular speaker posts. I've tried using DEQ with only 2.0 CH with the Revel Salon2 and it makes no difference in sound at all to me. DEQ is only effective with the LFE signal IMO.

This gets complicated, but I assume that with these speakers the bass speakers operate above the LFE range. So the speaker does need a full range signal, not rolled off, and the LFE is blended in.

This is somewhat similar to what I do, but my system is more active. Both my 10" drivers handle the LFE channel, but only the upper driver handles the baffle step compensation as well, which substantially off loads the mids. The signals are created and blended electronically ahead of all power amplification. It does mean that each 10" driver is driven from its own dedicated amp.

It works like a charm. I have not seen another arrangement exactly like mine, but it has huge advantages and is one of a number of features unique to my system.

However I suspect the OPs issue is a receiver issue and not a speaker issue.

It sounds very similar to the issue I had with the Marantz pre pro I have in Eagan.
It will not work in 2 channel. You have to trick it to think there are more than two channels or add another channel. This remains an unfixed bug.

So I ended up adding a center, and used one on my 4" vintage JW full range drivers in a sealed box crossed at 90 Hz. It made a fantastic center, and blends superbly with my mains. It has excellent voice clarity with no shout. It is far better than most centers I have heard and better than any MTM turned on its side.

It is driven by 100 watts and crossed at 90 Hz it will play very loud with no stress. This is one of many drivers I have that I built of that line. Fuzz also has one of these drivers that I personally built. He really likes it and so did Walter when he heard it.

 

[BlwnAway]

I am by no means an expert on the topic, I thought the LFE still receives the bass signal, just don't add LFE+ or the bass boost thing on Onkyo receivers, I guess I need further clarification on how this works.

All receivers handle this differently, in the case of the OP's receiver the + setting adds all low, non-LFE frequencies (below crossover) to the LFE outputs, don't forget LFE is it's own discrete channel, not all low frequencies.

 

[BlwnAway]

I don't understand this. Why have both speaker posts and LFE input if he recommends ONLY using the speaker posts?

To me the point of using both speaker posts and LFE simultaneously is to take advantage of Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which EQs the bass/sub. You can't get this if you are only using regular speaker posts. I've tried using DEQ with only 2.0 CH with the Revel Salon2 and it makes no difference in sound at all to me. DEQ is only effective with the LFE signal IMO.

I'm not that familiar with the inner workings of the GE's but it is most likely the same as the later DefTech Supertowers, they too only had one binding post and one LFE/Low input.
The speakers incorporate a High Pass crossover and a Low Pass crossover, when connecting with binding posts only the signal is sent through the High Pass crossover, everything below it's setting is then sent to a resistor of sorts where it is brought back to pre-amp levels before being fed into the internal amp.
When being fed with a low level signal, a switch cuts the connection from the speaker level input that comes from the High Pass crossover (same as pulling the jumpers on the older models) this signal is sent through the Low Pass crossover directly into the amp, already at pre-amp levels.
The concept of having both types of connections is two fold, first, this allows you to give the internal amp an LFE signal, should you decide to use the amp and woofer as a Sub. -or- you can feed the low level input with a full range signal that is already at pre-amp levels which in turn should give you a cleaner signal than one that has been amplified and then brought back down again (binding posts). Plus with the older models the High and Low Pass crossover's were adjustable, which gave the user control over blending of the drivers to better tweak the speakers to their own environment.