What interests you?

Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Greetings everyone!

I'm going to take a break from my normal barrage of dry wit and backhanded sarcasm to pose a rather deep inquiry. As we all know, this is a hobby where the sky is the limit. It's also a hobby of more then one way to get the job done. Over time and using the scientific approach of measurements and listening tests (blind), we can determine what products are good, and what products are worth the money (from an objective POV). Ultimately, given a budget and requirement, this would narrow down the choices if you were to look at it in that objective light. Have 5-700 bucks to spend on a subwoofer? SVS PB-2000. $1400 or so? SB-13U. Yes, all well and good. And like anything we do it life, it makes sense. These are the best choices given the guidelines and end result. Marry the safe girl that has a good job and doesn't eat babies.

If you're still with me at this point, my next question should seem normal. That question is, what subwoofer interests you? Like the safe girl, there is a smart choice. One that has the minimum cost for maximum performance. But what about the not so ideal choice? What if the baby eater is smoking hot, and you've always wondered what babies tasted like? I'm going to stop saying that now (apologies to the offended - not really though). Lets to refer to her as the Bat Sh*t Crazy one. Yeah, settling down with her would be a bad idea. Your parents would disown you, and her parents would pick your pocket at Sunday dinner. But in the back of your head, you can't help but wonder what a romp in the sack would be like. Okay, sorry, no more double entendre. A subwoofer that doesn't have the objective guide lines to back it up. One with a crazy design, and no 3rd party testing. Something that is different, and interesting. Something you want to like.

I've always been checking craigslist ever since I sold my Velodyne DSP-12 and picked up the acrylic Velodyne SPL-800. It was a decent move, albeit probably an unnecessary one given the DSP-12 and SLP-800 perform nearly the same. But the SPL-800 was special. I'd always wanted an SPL Velo (not the 8, but the acrylic made up for that). Ideally, I'd like a very powerful subwoofer, but I'm not of the mindset for building 6 cu. ft. boxes and buying Pro audio power amps to get the job done. I like the silly subwoofers that people come up with to try to get around the immovable wall of physics. I recently saw a Paradigm DSP-3400 for sale for $400, same price I paid for the SPL-800. 14 inch driver, 19Hz lower point, 300WRMS, 900wPeak. It's definitely more capable then my current sub, rather large, but less powerful (SPL-800 has 600WRMS, 1200WPeak), but the identical price made me wonder.

Enough rambling on my part, I want to hear from you. What is a subwoofer that you've always wanted to own, but reality came back around and said "Blank, you're being an idiot. Go buy the SVS PB-1000".

SheepStar
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I always had a morbid curiosity about Elemental Designs Dodecasub:


Also, the Velodyne DD1812 always seemed like it would have been interesting if not entirely sensible, a 2 way subwoofer. I would have liked to play with one. I'll be honest, the Magico QSUB-18 looks pretty cool as well, although very impractically priced. No doubt it would be a very good sub, using two Aurasound NS18 drivers. Another sub which would have been cool but looney was the Lycan Ulric, a 712 lbs, $15k sub which used the LMS Ultra 5400 driver in a ridiculously overbuilt cabinet. One more thing, I will use a Danley BC415 for a mid bass module, because as far as I am concerned, the party doesn't even start until you start hitting 150 dB.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
As I've studied designs using the Seas 10" sub, both 2 layer VC and 4 layer (used in Orion) I have had interest in trying a stand alone open baffle sub based on the Orion design... But then of course i have access to a CNC router so building a similar Status 8T is not out of reach...
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I always had a morbid curiosity about Elemental Designs Dodecasub:


Also, the Velodyne DD1812 always seemed like it would have been interesting if not entirely sensible, a 2 way subwoofer. I would have liked to play with one. I'll be honest, the Magico QSUB-18 looks pretty cool as well, although very impractically priced. No doubt it would be a very good sub, using two Aurasound NS18 drivers. Another sub which would have been cool but looney was the Lycan Ulric, a 712 lbs, $15k sub which used the LMS Ultra 5400 driver in a ridiculously overbuilt cabinet. One more thing, I will use a Danley BC415 for a mid bass module, because as far as I am concerned, the party doesn't even start until you start hitting 150 dB.
All good examples of the insane capabilities of an engineering team with a sky's the limit budget. Very good. However, I'm not looking for cost no object recommendations. I'm thinking more along the lines of "I could buy this, but I will be better off getting that." A Velodyne Optimum-12 over a PB-12plus, Golden Ear Forcefield 5 over a PB-2000. Some combination, where the logical choice, does nothing to tickle a specific fancy. The Paradigm Subwoofer I mentioned above almost made me sell my Velodyne, but until I have a place where I can actually use all the Velo has to offer, I won't be upgrading (I have not pushed it to it's limits, until then I cannot get rid of it).

Does that make more sense? I know it's an odd ball angle to look through, but sometimes you come across a product that you would like the idea of, but the reality of it just doesn't make sense. I'm also not condemning any of the above mention products. The FF5 seems like a veritable bargain if it can do what it says on paper. And if the Optimum-12 is as good as the SPL/SPLR-1200, it's an awesome subwoofer per cu. ft.

SheepStar
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
SVS should still be doing their refurb section, try that, and just keep your eyes open. The selection changes quite regularly
 
JohnnieB

JohnnieB

Senior Audioholic
Once again the matter is subjective. What may be out of line for one person, may be completely reasonable for another. That having been said, the Axiom EP800 is too big physically for any practical use to me, but may be better than finding the floor space for two black cubes. I can get two Rhythmik 15 for less than one EP800. Throwing both subs in one enclosure may negate the advantages of having dual subs in the first place. All that and yet I wonder, what would that sub do or sound like in my room/setup.

In addition, what is the goal of the seemingly nonsensical itch. If your just a bass fiend looking for a fix, buy 4,6,8 or as any as you can fit subs, and rattle your neighbors house too.

In the end, I had to go for what made sense both monetarily and sound wise. If I could, I would go two EP800 or maybe four PB13 Ultras. For something real custom, I would have Dave at Ascend acoustics build me two enclosures out of bamboo with the satin espresso finish to match my towers, and have Rhythmik stuff em' with bass goodness.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I remember those back in the day. I also remember the B4-Plus. Mulester7 had 2 of those bad boys.

Once again the matter is subjective. What may be out of line for one person, may be completely reasonable for another. That having been said, the Axiom EP800 is too big physically for any practical use to me, but may be better than finding the floor space for two black cubes. I can get two Rhythmik 15 for less than one EP800. Throwing both subs in one enclosure may negate the advantages of having dual subs in the first place. All that and yet I wonder, what would that sub do or sound like in my room/setup.

In addition, what is the goal of the seemingly nonsensical itch. If your just a bass fiend looking for a fix, buy 4,6,8 or as any as you can fit subs, and rattle your neighbors house too.

In the end, I had to go for what made sense both monetarily and sound wise. If I could, I would go two EP800 or maybe four PB13 Ultras. For something real custom, I would have Dave at Ascend acoustics build me two enclosures out of bamboo with the satin espresso finish to match my towers, and have Rhythmik stuff em' with bass goodness.
Oh I know it's subjective. I am just curious what subwoofers caught your attention in that "oh noooo this is dumb, but I want to" kind of way.

For me personally, I've always had a thing for the SPL/SPL-R line. Played with a couple at A&B Sound back in the day, one day hoping to get one. Energy had the S12.3 subwoofer, which is actually a damn good performer if you check the Tom Nousaine list. They are all but gone nowadays, but if one pops up on CL, I will have it. Def Tech, Golden Ear, Sunfire, a lot of companies make subwoofers that peak my interest. I like drivers with giant surrounds, even if it's just a BIC sub that dies at 27Hz. Woe is me.

SheepStar
 
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Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
That question is, what subwoofer interests you? Like the safe girl, there is a smart choice. One that has the minimum cost for maximum performance. But what about the not so ideal choice?
Maximum performance for the price wasn't/isn't a consideration for me. "Adequate" performance certainly matters, but something like this wouldn't make it into my house even if I were a bachelor. In my case, I wanted to keep the size to a minimum and obtain a "building block" for a system that could deliver high performance below 20Hz. Consequently, I have what I have.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Oh, I just thought of another one that's completely impractical, but I'd love to hear one in person in an appropriate enclosure. Anyone remember the Phoenix Gold Cyclone?



They only play up to about 40 Hz, but they have an Fs of 11 Hz.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
This sub from Paradigm..




That subwoofer is a beast. Yeah, it's crazy expensive, and huge, and impossible to move by yourself, but it definitely cuts the mustard. I'm curious to see if copy cats of this type of design will start showing up, maybe with 3 drivers instead of 6. And if they can get them to be more efficient (don't know if the extra power is from number of drivers, efficiency, or because it's a sealed system) they could make one that would still be very good for a lot less. Again, my speculation, I have no idea what physics related limits you would see trying to build one.

Maximum performance for the price wasn't/isn't a consideration for me. "Adequate" performance certainly matters, but something like this wouldn't make it into my house even if I were a bachelor. In my case, I wanted to keep the size to a minimum and obtain a "building block" for a system that could deliver high performance below 20Hz. Consequently, I have what I have.
I agree. It's why I gravitate away from DIY. I'm not saying it's impossible to make one look nice, but I don't think I've seen one that's as "polished" as what a manufacture could do if aesthetics was a pivotal design goal.

Oh, I just thought of another one that's completely impractical, but I'd love to hear one in person in an appropriate enclosure. Anyone remember the Phoenix Gold Cyclone?



They only play up to about 40 Hz, but they have an Fs of 11 Hz.
The PG version wasn't as popularas the fan looking design, but they were no joke. It was expensive if I remember correctly, but they did work. And yeah, clear the upstairs floor, it's needed for a box.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Went trough a few good subs over the years and now I have the ones I've always wanted.

Cinepro
Subwoofer: Dual 15-Inch Isobaric
Connections: RCA line-level input (on external crossover box)
Enclosure Type: Vented Isobaric
Woofer (size in inches, type): 15, carbon/paper cone (2)



Power Rating: Non-powered—works with external amps from
40–1,200 watts
Crossover Bypass: Yes
Available Finishes: Oak, Black Oak, custom paint finishes
Dimensions (H x W x D, inches): 18 x 19.5 x 32
Weight (pounds): 165
Price: $5,295/each

I do have some 21" I got an eye on, but for now I am good. What I like about them is that they don't sound like subs. They're just an extension of the towers and intergrate perfect with my system.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
May be my solution of no sub is the most insane of all!
 
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