Programmable thermostats?

[Swerd]

I have a 20-year old programmable thermostat in my house, actually I have two. I installed them myself a few months after moving in to replace the poor quality builder's grade thermostats, and to have the ability to program the settings. They are Honeywell CT3300s, which if I recall I bought for about $45 or $50 each. They have a typical program, 4 time/temp settings for M-F, and 2 settings for weekends. Once they were installed, they were easy to program and have worked well. They occasionally need new batteries, 2 AA size.

Yesterday, we were out for most of the afternoon and evening. I had set the thermostats to 62° F, my away temperature, when we left. When I got home, the downstairs thermostat read 17° C ! I knew that was about right, but I was puzzled at what made it change from F to C.

This morning, I found the old manual, and read how you can change the readout between F or C, by turning a screw on the back plate of the thermostat by one turn. I dreaded removing this thermostat because I vaguely remember having trouble installing it. (The thermostat wire was too short. I struggled with it for a while, and finally spliced on about 6-8" lengths for each of those wires. It was a pain.)

When I got a bunch of screw drivers and a flashlight, I saw that the thermostat now read in °F again. OK, so I never had to pull it off the wall (a good thing), but I'm wondering if I've gotten a warning of future failure.

So I quickly looked at what's available on Amazon. Aye caramba! There are self-programming thermostats that are controlled by smart phones, selling for $250 to $300!! I really don't want that. Isn't there a roughly equivalent replacement for a reasonable price?

My system is standard for the mid Atlantic region: natural gas-fired forced-air heat and electric air conditioning all driven by a common air handler. No heat pump or electric heat. If I recall, the thermostat control wire has 4 conductors.

I know Imcloud works in home heating and cooling. Any others with recent thermostat experience?

 

[Adam]

I have some recent experience. The short summary is - yes, you can get an equivalent replacement for a reasonable price. I think that you may also like some of the features that have been added in the past 20 years. You can get them at Amazon, Home Depot, and so on.

If you look on Amazon, you should see programmable thermostats for well under $50. For example, the Honeywell RTH2300B1012 for $25 that has many positive reviews.

I've recently used a White-Rodgers UP400 that I like, but don't think it's worth the added cost unless you really want a large display (I made a video review of it). I'm currently using a Trane WiFi-enabled thermostat that I can control over the internet (including with my phone) - I like the features, but again, not worth the extra cost unless you want that remote capability.

 

[ImcLoud]

I would reccomend the Honeywell for thermostats.

What are you looking to spend?
The most popular model I sell is a 7 day non touch face {I sell for $79.99 but amazon is cheaper im sure} rth7500d that will do all you want..

Next is the same model except touch face instead of buttons rth7600d $99.99

the cheapest i sell for 7 day is the 2510 which is about $50, but like I said amazon probably shaves 20 percent from any prices I have...

I would stay away from 5-2's ... but if you are going with that style you can get them for under $30 at home depot...

PS if your t-stat ever fails and wont lite or call for heat, wire nut the r and w {normally red and white} cables together, that will call for heat, then disconnect them when you are warm...

The wifi stats are really nice, but the cost is prohibitive in most cases... the Honeywell vision pro stuff is nice, I like the outdoor temp accessories the sell now and a lot of the other features make them really convenient, but you pay for it all...

 

[Adam]

I would stay away from 5-2's ...

Is that because of the added programming between weekdays/weekends, or are they less capable than the 7-day models?

 

[Swerd]

Thanks guys. Those options look a whole lot better. I must have searched Amazon with the wrong keyword.

I'm glad to hear the Honeywell thermostats are still good. In the past, they were so commonly seen, that I didn't think there was any competition. It's good to know they didn't go the way of Maytag.

I think 7-day programming might be an improvement over 5/2. But I would rather avoid other unwanted and unanticipated bells & whistles.

An interesting aside, once a HVAC repair guy on a routine yearly visit, asked me if I wanted to buy a programmable thermostat. I told him I already had them. After he looked and saw that I actually set a program, he told me how most people had them but never set a program in them. Kind of like the VCRs that always flashed 12:00. Maybe the manufacturers decided if they increased the price 10-fold and let people play with their smart phones in the process, they might actually program to save on heating bills .

 

[fuzz092888]

This one is probably too expensive for what you're looking for, but it gets pretty good reviews, does all the smart phone stuff, and just looks pretty cool

https://nest.com

 

[Adam]

I don't program mine anymore because I want to keep a consistent setting for Niki. I enjoy the digital control for sure, though.

One thing that I like about the two that I mentioned is that they have reminders to change the filter. The White-Rodgers is calendar time-based, whereas the Trane keeps track of the run time, so you can set up a reminder to change the filter based on hours used versus calendar time.

 

[ImcLoud]

OK, without going way overboard in to set backs and heat loss energy recovery, I'll try to make this really simple... So 5-1-1's or 5-2's allow you to set you thermostat for 1-3 different days, meaning m-f or what ever 5 consecutive days you choose can be programmed to follow an identical pattern for day, night, away, home, ect... then depending on a 1-1 or-2 they allow you a "weekend" pattern... These were the first p-t-stats available, and they never really updated the programming or how they work, the 7 day full programables got all the new chip sets and programming, most of them have intelligence built in that allows the stat to keep track of how long it takes to recover {models with out door temp do this very well} so you can get the most out of your setbacks in savings and comfort...

If you have a schedule that allows for 5-2 then great, but things change and for $20 or so, I would get the better control with the newer technology...

One more not for setting back, the best way to do this is with home or away... When coupled with a low limit temp and outdoor temp and recovery programming you will get the best comfort and energy savings.. Simple before you leave the house hit away, it stops the heat unless the low limit is reached {essentially around 50}, then when you are on your way home you use your smart phone to turn it back on or punch in the time you will be home, your tstat uses the outdoor and indoor temps with its learned recovery program to make the house your desired temp by the time you get home. So say you want 70 and its 20 outside, you were gone for 10 hours so the house went down to 55, the tstat does the math and comes up with 40 minutes to raise the temp 15 degrees on 20 degree day... This gets you the most savings and the most comfort since you never new it was off, and you aren't cold if you came home early...


Of course if you have pets like adam you will want to keep it comfy for them guys, but if not, there is no reason to heat the house past its mechanical needs when you are not home. and on the other hand if you are not gone long enough and your system doesn't recover fast enough programable may not be for you all together...

 

[Swerd]

This one is probably too expensive for what you're looking for, but it gets pretty good reviews, does all the smart phone stuff, and just looks pretty cool

https://nest.com

Amazon sells that for $250, and apparently its their #1 Best Seller .

At that price, I'll pass, despite the looks and smart phone stuff.

 

[ImcLoud]

I prefer the prestige over the nest, I have had a few issues with the nest in the past..

 

[Swerd]

This choice was an easy one. I put the Honeywell RTH7500D on my wishlist, in case I need to buy.

Thanks for the help .

 

[Adam]

This choice was an easy one. I put the Honeywell RTH7500D on my wishlist, in case I need to buy.

Glad that you got that all sorted out.

Should have gone for the wireless, though. J/K. However, the available wireless systems (Z-Wave, so not actually WiFi) allow you to connect up all sorts of components - thermostats, locks, outlets, cameras, security sensors, and so forth. Some use subscription services for internet access, while others don't.

 

[ImcLoud]

good choice, easily my best seller, we sell about 100 of them a year... I just looked up what I sell them for and its $89.99 plus tax {I thought it was less, but that is the msrp} and I pay $51.44.... amazon sells them for $60 shipped... I hand deliver and install mine though, although $65-95 service fee applies ... you are much better off doing it yourself if you are capable...

 

[Swerd]

Glad that you got that all sorted out.

Should have gone for the wireless, though. J/K. However, the available wireless systems (Z-Wave, so not actually WiFi) allow you to connect up all sorts of components - thermostats, locks, outlets, cameras, security sensors, and so forth. Some use subscription services for internet access, while others don't.

Another tidbit I learned about the WiFi smart thermostat from the HVAC guy, if there's a repair call from a customer, they can observe online some aspects of recent operation. It might allow them to diagnose the failure before leaving the shop.

I can easily imagine the next generation of smart thermostats . It lets the electric company link directly to your bank account, eliminating us from the loop.

I'm not trying to poke fun at all the enthusiastic smart phone users out there (OK, just a little). But I have to wonder about the benefit of making a thermostat a WiFi ready smart device. The simple first generation digital thermostats work well. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here.

I don't feel like I'm just another old guy being a Luddite . I think an experienced home owner values reliable low-cost simplicity more than overpriced new gadgets with more bells & whistles than you want or need.

 

[avnetguy]

I've been using a cheap 5-2 for the last three years, got it free with a new furnace (low end white-rodgers ~$30 in store) and it does the job nicely. I only lower during weekday nights as on weekends my time shifts too much to schedule it. I would only spend extra money on one *if* you have a need for more schedule options. I still have my previous Honeywell 7 day around just for backup, it's only used as a temperature display in my basement now. One option I do like, and use, is the single button "hold" on the unit just in case I pull a late night during the weekday.

Being a programmer I am half surprised that some sort of fan scheduling features aren't included (maybe there are on the real expensive models?) when the heat gets turned down. This would provide circulation and keep the temp more equal throughout the house. Of course the other half of me realizes many won't understand how to use it.

 

[avnetguy]

I'm not trying to poke fun at all the enthusiastic smart phone users out there (OK, just a little). But I have to wonder about the benefit of making a thermostat a WiFi ready smart device. The simple first generation digital thermostats work well. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here.

And just wait until a few Wifi houses get "hacked", where someone either turns the furance off or blasts the heat up to 90.

 

[ImcLoud]

I've been using a cheap 5-2 for the last three years, got it free with a new furnace (low end white-rodgers ~$30 in store) and it does the job nicely. I only lower during weekday nights as on weekends my time shifts too much to schedule it. I would only spend extra money on one *if* you have a need for more schedule options. I still have my previous Honeywell 7 day around just for backup, it's only used as a temperature display in my basement now. One option I do like, and use, is the single button "hold" on the unit just in case I pull a late night during the weekday.

Being a programmer I am half surprised that some sort of fan scheduling features aren't included (maybe there are on the real expensive models?) when the heat gets turned down. This would provide circulation and keep the temp more equal throughout the house. Of course the other half of me realizes many won't understand how to use it.

This would most likely cost more and make your home less comfortable, the blower inside your unit uses a lot of electricity and your duct work {even if insulated} will have sufficient stand by losses, if the air in the warm part of the home is 70 degrees by the time it gets to the "cold" area it will most likely be colder than the are its self... Plus there are so many different systems out there a system with a single central return would only move air one way vs a system with individual returns {a return in every room} will simple move the air around each room...
In other words, it soounds good in theory but would never work or yield any positive results..

AVNET- I asked my h-well rep if they could be hacked when the wifi stuff was first coming out, and he said sure anything can, but it wouldn't be easy and someone would really need to go out of their way, it would in most cases be easier to break into the property spin the tstat and run out... Plus they need to know your t-stat model, and code as well as be in the room with the tstat.... Now someone would be much better off hacking the entire system and changing everyone that owns a nest or prestige, but again, a lot f trouble for very little impact...

Swerd- I like the wifi t-stats, they have a lot of good features, say your house is set at 70 and you are away on vacation your boiler knocks out and the house starts to get cold it will alert you, then you can call for someone to look into the situation before it freezes... Also its nice to be able to turn it up or down and see if anyone in the house is doing it without you knowing, my wife likes to turn it up to 74 when Im not there in the winter, so I just turn it back down, and she thinks it is still up, or the kids like to come in from outside in the summer and turn the ac to 50 because they think its a throttle I can turn it back where it belongs.... Plus if I am coming home early I can interupt my schedule from the road and come home to a warm house....

 

[Adam]

And just wait until a few Wifi houses get "hacked", where someone either turns the furance off or blasts the heat up to 90.

Yeah, that would really get a hacker some street cred. "Woah, YOU'RE the one that turned up the heat on that unknown person in Omaha? Wicked, dude. Wicked."

 

[Adam]

I don't feel like I'm just another old guy being a Luddite . I think an experienced home owner values reliable low-cost simplicity more than overpriced new gadgets with more bells & whistles than you want or need.

Says the man looking to spend about $60 on a digital programmable thermostat when a lower-cost, more simple manual thermostat would run about $10.

It's all about where you draw the line for "bells & whistles."

 

[avnetguy]

This would most likely cost more and make your home less comfortable, the blower inside your unit uses a lot of electricity and your duct work {even if insulated} will have sufficient stand by losses, if the air in the warm part of the home is 70 degrees by the time it gets to the "cold" area it will most likely be colder than the are its self... Plus there are so many different systems out there a system with a single central return would only move air one way vs a system with individual returns {a return in every room} will simple move the air around each room...
In other words, it soounds good in theory but would never work or yield any positive results..

On newer furnaces the blower motors are very efficent DC motors, adding up to a small fraction of total run costs but yes, the older units used much more energy. Some people up here (I don't) leave their fans on low speed all the time during the winter to keep the temperature differences lower, this apparently also helps with condensation on cheaper or inefficent windows.

Never seen a single cold air return up here, all have returns in most rooms (except kitchen/bathrooms) but that's probably due to our very cold climate. Running a fan in a single return wouldn't make any sense.