Help With Possible AVR Issue (Defective?)

[ousooner2]

I've got an issue and I can't figure out what the cause is. I'll try to keep this short and sweet. Here's what I'm working with:

EMP e55ti (and e56ci; e5bi's)
Denon 1712 (from A4L)


When I use my SPL meter, using 1/3 octave pink noise from a Alan Parsons disc or Autosound discs or whatever.....I'm getting HUUUGE dropoffs up top. They 'sound' normal when MultEQ XT does it's thing and boosts it, but without EQ they sound like they have 10 blankets over them. There is in fact something coming out of the tweeter without EQ applied, so I know they're on/working/etc...obviously. Here's my posts from recent about the issue.

So for awhile now I've been wondering why my AVR is having to boost my top end so much.....and why I feel like I'm not getting any lower end content (40hz and under) in my room. I felt maybe I'm just expecting too much bass that low and just went with it, not to mention I don't get to listen or watch movies as much as I used to. So today I had some free time and wanted to use my Radioshack SPL meter to gather some data.

Test Disc/Tracks: Alan Parsons Soundcheck Disc -- Pink Noise 20hz to 20kHz (in 1/3 octave steps)

So lets move on to whatever the heck is happening to my top end. I will not that while I was doing this using a reference tone at 1kHz @ 75dB I heard something odd from the left e55ti tweeter. I can't recall the frequency, but it was obviously around 2kHz+.....anyways, I heard an odd noise. This has happened before to me if anyone recalls this and I thought I had fixed it by just tightening the tweeter screws. I guess not. It makes a high pitched noise and when I press on the sides of the tweeter faceplate it goes away. It's ringing or something. It sounds like ringing. So no telling what that's about or if that could be the issue causing THIS problem below:


This is with Audyssey MultEQ DISABLED so it's just the e55's and Denon 1712
1kHz: 75dB
1.25k: 71.5
1.6k: 66
2k: 59
2.5k: 57
3.15k: 65
4k: 78
5k: 78
6.3k: 53
8k: 44
10k: 41
12.5k: 42
16k: 43
20kHz: 43dB


Yes.....it goes from 75dB at 1kHz to 59dB at 2kHz at my listening position. And slightly lower by 2.5kHz! Then back up by 4kHz...and then DROPS OFF A TABLE at 6.3kHz!!! That's a 25dB swing from 5kHz to 6.3kHz I played the same list WITH AUDYSSEY SET TO FLAT and had slightly different dB's, but the EXACT same trend. Falling from 1.25kHz to 1.6kHz and ramping up again at 4kHz and falling again from 5kHz to 6.3kHz.

I thought maybe my SPL meter was getting messed up by listening from 12ish feet away at the main listening position so I did some measurements from about 1' away:

Pink Noise
5kHz: 81dB
6.3kHz: 68dB

Sine Waves
5kHz: 83dB
6.3kHz: 51dB



I have no idea what's going on.....



Gene's in-room measurement for Audioholics review:

What my in-room measurement would look like in my room from 5kHz to 8kHz and out to 20kHz (applied to gene's curve; -25dB from 5k to 6.3k and another -9dB from that to 8k)

Could this be a result of a defective AVR? I don't remember these sounding this 'dull' on my Yamaha 663 (no eq applied; same room). I would think it 'could' be the speakers, but it's boosting the crap out of EACH of the 5 speakers up top. Not just the mains. Can anyone please help? My AVR warranty runs out tomorrow, though I've been contacting A4L for a month now trying to get them to contact me & they won't. Pretty shady, but I've got record of it so I'll call Denon directly. Anyways, any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[ousooner2]

Purchased a new SPL meter at Radioshack. It might have just made me more confused lol

* Yes, batteries were swapped from the new one, to the old one and back again to make sure readings were not off due to low or bad battery. Readings were the same no matter which battery was used (had 3 different brands of 9v)


OLD SPL Meter--NEW SPL Meter

2k: 56dB-56dB
3k: 60dB-55dB
4k: 73dB-54dB
5k: 72dB-52dB
6k: 52dB-45dB
8k: 43dB-41dB
10k: 40dB-38dB

The results are obviously blatantly different. These measurements were taken with the mics 'bodies' touching, at the same height, at the MLP about 11-12' away. Holding them about 6-8" from the tweeter height from the L/R speakers showed that the results were still skewed from OLD mic to NEW mic. At 6.3kHz there was an 8dB difference with the OLD mic being 8dB higher than the new mic. At 8kHz, very little difference, which shows it's reading the same from 6-8" as it is at 11-12 feet away.

SO!...it's possible the OLD mic is messed up. That still doesn't explain the HUGE dropping off of frequencies. I went into manual EQ in Audyssey and it will only apply UP TO a 6dB BOOST. I know boosting isn't 'good' and cutting is preferred, but it's boosting each speaker quite a lot (5-6dB's in the treble and through the upper midrange it's getting about 2-4dB's of boost). Doing this manually and you can tell it's sounds more clear. I know you're probably thinking that I might just prefer a 'bright' top end, but even MultEQ XT is doing it so I don't think it's 'incorrect' per say.


Anyone? Should I go ahead and send my AVR (denon 1712) in for repair (already have the place lined up for the warranty work; just have to pay for shipping to them), should I contact EMP,....any idea's? HEEEELP

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

First of all, how do the speakers actually sound? Do they sound bad?

Trying a same model Denon from Best Buy is a good idea. If it does the same thing, try a cheap pair of Pioneer speakers from Best Buy. If it still does the same, it's your damn room.

You could borrow my digital SPL meter, but you would have to come to my house and then return it to me when you are done with it.

I don't spend that much time ever measuring my system. If you want, you could bring your equipment and measure my system, but it would have to be a Tuesday that I'm off work. No other day. Like tomorrow when I'm off work.

It would have to be done before 3PM before my kids come home from school and my wife comes home from work.

 

[ousooner2]

First of all, how do the speakers actually sound? Do they sound bad?
They sound great when they have Audyssey engaged. When they don't, it's sounds extremely recessed. Some might like this, but I personally feel it's not 'neutral' or 'flat', but it's actually very rolled off up top. That's why I took SPL measurements and those confirmed what I thought.

Trying a same model Denon from Best Buy is a good idea. If it does the same thing, try a cheap pair of Pioneer speakers from Best Buy. If it still does the same, it's your damn room.

True. I hate doing this, but I'll need an AVR anyways if I have to send it out so I might as well pick one up for the time being. If I find it's the AVR then I send it out and return it before the return period. If everything reads AND sounds the same with the new AVR, then i'll just return it and look into the speakers themselves as the possible issue.

You could borrow my digital SPL meter, but you would have to come to my house and then return it to me when you are done with it.

I will take you up on that. One less thing that's a 'possible' in this whole deal. If you'd like you can come by and have a listen. You've heard quite a bit and would know if something is audibly wrong.

I don't spend that much time ever measuring my system. If you want, you could bring your equipment and measure my system, but it would have to be a Tuesday that I'm off work. No other day. Like tomorrow when I'm off work.

This is a possible also. I'm sure I could take a half day tomorrow no problem. I'll PM you my number

It would have to be done before 3PM before my kids come home from school and my wife comes home from work.

.............

 

[ousooner2]

So I purchased a Denon x1000 to try out. Results from listening and pink noise.....same thing.

SPL meter confirmed on pink noise at least.

Denon 1712 - Denon X1000

4kHz: 54dB - 54dB
10kHz: 38dB - 39dB



So that means that these speakers in my room are almost 20dB down at 10kHz from 2kHz. Does that seem normal to anyone? lol. I know it's tappered off that much because MultEQ XT bumps the top end up to +6.0dB's in places. Above 4-5kHz it's boosting by 4.5+ dB's. Again, this same trend can be seen when the SPL meter is placed at tweeter height roughly 8" from the speaker so it's not a room issue.

Playing test tones using my WDTV-Live connected to my PC. Using pink noise tracks from the Alan Parsons Soundcheck disc (something like tracks 10-38 I believe). I'm not sure what else to try. I have both AVR's here and my SPL meter. Access to plenty of other discs, pink noise, sine waves, etc.

I understand that the speakers might have a slightly rolled off top end, which is somewhat known, but to be almost 20dB down from 2kHz to 10kHz when doing NEAR FIELD measurements? I can understand a boost due to room size or the speakers actually needing it a little to be "FLAT" according to Audyssey, but I don't think it can boost more than 6dB's (...a good thing) and if it could then I bet it would if it's measuring what I'm measuring (aka....needing 15+ dB's up top). I'm about to just say F it and enjoy it with Audyssey engaged on my 1712. Not send it in or anything. I have no clue what's going on. lol.

 

[PENG]

So I purchased a Denon x1000 to try out. Results from listening and pink noise.....same thing.

SPL meter confirmed on pink noise at least.

Denon 1712 - Denon X1000

4kHz: 54dB - 54dB
10kHz: 38dB - 39dB



So that means that these speakers in my room are almost 20dB down at 10kHz from 2kHz. Does that seem normal to anyone? lol. I know it's tappered off that much because MultEQ XT bumps the top end up to +6.0dB's in places. Above 4-5kHz it's boosting by 4.5+ dB's. Again, this same trend can be seen when the SPL meter is placed at tweeter height roughly 8" from the speaker so it's not a room issue.

Playing test tones using my WDTV-Live connected to my PC. Using pink noise tracks from the Alan Parsons Soundcheck disc (something like tracks 10-38 I believe). I'm not sure what else to try. I have both AVR's here and my SPL meter. Access to plenty of other discs, pink noise, sine waves, etc.

I understand that the speakers might have a slightly rolled off top end, which is somewhat known, but to be almost 20dB down from 2kHz to 10kHz when doing NEAR FIELD measurements? I can understand a boost due to room size or the speakers actually needing it a little to be "FLAT" according to Audyssey, but I don't think it can boost more than 6dB's (...a good thing) and if it could then I bet it would if it's measuring what I'm measuring (aka....needing 15+ dB's up top). I'm about to just say F it and enjoy it with Audyssey engaged on my 1712. Not send it in or anything. I have no clue what's going on. lol.

I agree if Audyssey only boosts that range by 6 dB and the fact that you thought it sounded great with it engaged, then there may be something wrong the way you measured it, the tone, software, mic position etc. It is still possible there is something wrong with the speakers or just your room.

Did you try measuring one speaker at a time? If they behave the same then I would say both of them being "wrong" the same way is remote and you can then almost conclude it is your room or the way you do your measurements.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

At least you now know that your Denon is okay. You have ruled out one variable.

When you return the X1000, pick up a Pioneer tower to test.

If the results are the same, then you will know that your EMP speakers are also okay.

It's a process of elimination - ruling out one variable at a time.

 

[Pyrrho]

It is normal to have strange things happen with an uncorrected frequency response. This is a result of sound bouncing off of the walls and just about everything else in the room. How bad this will be, will be dependent upon the room, the other things in the room (and where they are), where your speakers are, and where your listening position is. If you have chosen these things poorly, then you will likely have dramatically bad things happening to the sound. Or if you are just very, very unlucky, you can have dramatically bad things happening to the sound. But you ought not expect a flat response in your room, no matter how careful you were in setting it up, unless the room was especially designed for good acoustics.

Now, I recommend a visit to Dolby's site and look at their ideas regarding speaker placement, and try to approximate what they tell you to do (or do it exactly as they say, if you can). The more you deviate from ideal, the more horrible you should expect these sorts of issues to be. But you should never expect a flat frequency response from even a proper setup in a normal room. That is why they put in the automatic EQ, to take care of issues that they can be pretty certain you will have.

 

[ousooner2]

I agree if Audyssey only boosts that range by 6 dB and the fact that you thought it sounded great with it engaged, then there may be something wrong the way you measured it, the tone, software, mic position etc. It is still possible there is something wrong with the speakers or just your room.

Did you try measuring one speaker at a time? If they behave the same then I would say both of them being "wrong" the same way is remote and you can then almost conclude it is your room or the way you do your measurements.

Thanks for the help! I'm now wondering if it's the tone (pink noise) that might not be at the same SPL per frequency (I'm not sure if that's how pink noise works or what..) or possibly my soundcard on my PC. I know there's a way to test the output of the sound card and I'm looking into how to do that now. I believe REW is needed, but my PC is built and can run that very easily so that shouldn't be a problem. I am using an integrated sound card on my motherboard though (asus p8z68 v-pro; dobly 5.1 sound card) so maybe that's the issue. Maybe there's just a roll off with it. Who knows.

I have measured them one of a time, but that was back with the original measurements. I'll do it again with the new SPL meter and post the results of each speaker alone (FL and FR) using pink noise.

At least you now know that your Denon is okay. You have ruled out one variable.

When you return the X1000, pick up a Pioneer tower to test.

If the results are the same, then you will know that your EMP speakers are also okay.

It's a process of elimination - ruling out one variable at a time.

You think they'd catch me if I put the 1712 back in the box? lol jk. The new Denon's look nice though. I like the look more than my 1712. Don't need all the features though. I got MultEQ XT and 7.1 for $300 compared to the same stuff at the $450 x1000. Bargain if you don't need the extra stuff!

I forgot to look at what speakers they have there. Hopefully some Pio bookshelves I can 'borrow'. Maybe their sound room will work this time so I can hear the ML Motion 40's! Wanted to hear them since they supposedly sound almost identical to the ARX A5's.

I do need to try your SPL meter though. I still wonder about the pink noise though. If it looses volume as you increase or decrease frequency from your 1kHz reference, then maybe that's the culprit. Crap. That can't be it because Audyssey is measuring it and saying it needs a lot of boost. Nevermind on that thought lol

It is normal to have strange things happen with an uncorrected frequency response. This is a result of sound bouncing off of the walls and just about everything else in the room. How bad this will be, will be dependent upon the room, the other things in the room (and where they are), where your speakers are, and where your listening position is. If you have chosen these things poorly, then you will likely have dramatically bad things happening to the sound. Or if you are just very, very unlucky, you can have dramatically bad things happening to the sound. But you ought not expect a flat response in your room, no matter how careful you were in setting it up, unless the room was especially designed for good acoustics.

Now, I recommend a visit to Dolby's site and look at their ideas regarding speaker placement, and try to approximate what they tell you to do (or do it exactly as they say, if you can). The more you deviate from ideal, the more horrible you should expect these sorts of issues to be. But you should never expect a flat frequency response from even a proper setup in a normal room. That is why they put in the automatic EQ, to take care of issues that they can be pretty certain you will have.

I agree with you on all of this, but wouldn't the room be taken out of the equation when the pattern of high roll off is measured from 6" away from the speaker (tweeter height)? It exhibits the same roll off when I measure it from that close as it does when I measure from 11-12' away. Setup is an equilateral triangle (or darn close to it) right now and the FL/FR are on-axis or very close to it (don't have a laser pointer to make exact measurements). I get and agree with what you're saying on not expecting a flat response in-room. Hell....it's pricey just to create a speaker that's near flat in an anechoic chamber lol. I definitely expect some variation of frequency response, but 15-20dB of variation from a nearfield measurement and an in-room (11-12' away) measurement? That's kind crazy don't you think. Gene's measurements on them were MUCH better in room. Obviously a different room, but still..you get where I'm going with this.

This shouldn't matter...well....it could 'help', but what if I toe'd the speakers out and measured. Maybe there is some sort of cancellations happening. I know the wavelengths are pretty short up top and it likely wouldn't make a huge difference, but if I got a better response up top using say 20-30deg. off-axis then that could help for the time being. Unless I find out something else is the culprit.

 

[Pyrrho]

...

It is normal to have strange things happen with an uncorrected frequency response. This is a result of sound bouncing off of the walls and just about everything else in the room. How bad this will be, will be dependent upon the room, the other things in the room (and where they are), where your speakers are, and where your listening position is. If you have chosen these things poorly, then you will likely have dramatically bad things happening to the sound. Or if you are just very, very unlucky, you can have dramatically bad things happening to the sound. But you ought not expect a flat response in your room, no matter how careful you were in setting it up, unless the room was especially designed for good acoustics.

Now, I recommend a visit to Dolby's site and look at their ideas regarding speaker placement, and try to approximate what they tell you to do (or do it exactly as they say, if you can). The more you deviate from ideal, the more horrible you should expect these sorts of issues to be. But you should never expect a flat frequency response from even a proper setup in a normal room. That is why they put in the automatic EQ, to take care of issues that they can be pretty certain you will have.

I agree with you on all of this, but wouldn't the room be taken out of the equation when the pattern of high roll off is measured from 6" away from the speaker (tweeter height)?

No it wouldn't. If it did, there would be no need for them to make anechoic chambers to measure speakers. Even if you put your microphone 1 inch from the tweeter, there would still be some room effects.

It exhibits the same roll off when I measure it from that close as it does when I measure from 11-12' away. Setup is an equilateral triangle (or darn close to it) right now and the FL/FR are on-axis or very close to it (don't have a laser pointer to make exact measurements). I get and agree with what you're saying on not expecting a flat response in-room. Hell....it's pricey just to create a speaker that's near flat in an anechoic chamber lol. I definitely expect some variation of frequency response, but 15-20dB of variation from a nearfield measurement and an in-room (11-12' away) measurement? That's kind crazy don't you think. Gene's measurements on them were MUCH better in room. Obviously a different room, but still..you get where I'm going with this.

This shouldn't matter...well....it could 'help', but what if I toe'd the speakers out and measured. Maybe there is some sort of cancellations happening. I know the wavelengths are pretty short up top and it likely wouldn't make a huge difference, but if I got a better response up top using say 20-30deg. off-axis then that could help for the time being. Unless I find out something else is the culprit.

Of course, it is possible that there is something wrong with your speakers. Maybe they are not functioning up to specifications. But it is difficult to know this from the information you have provided.

With rooms that are acoustically "live," the room will affect your measurements more than with "dead" rooms. When you clap your hands once, do you hear a slight echo in your room? If you hear any echo at all (as is common in empty rooms with no furniture), your room is too live and it will impact the sound very significantly.


Also, you do not seem to have stated how you have run the test. Which speaker did you test? And what results did you get with the other speaker? You ought to be measuring only one speaker at a time, with all of the others off. If you had both front speakers producing sound when you did your measurements, you would be picking up sound from the other speaker. Since treble is more directional than lower frequencies, this would mean that the lower frequencies would likely be boosted more than the treble would be. So, what, exactly, did you do to measure your speakers, and why is it that you do not have two sets of measurements, one for each right and left front speaker?

In fact, from rereading your opening post, the way you have worded it strongly suggests that you simply did the test in a completely wrong manner.


Now, regarding this from the opening post, that I did not previously address:

...
So lets move on to whatever the heck is happening to my top end. I will not that while I was doing this using a reference tone at 1kHz @ 75dB I heard something odd from the left e55ti tweeter. I can't recall the frequency, but it was obviously around 2kHz+.....anyways, I heard an odd noise. This has happened before to me if anyone recalls this and I thought I had fixed it by just tightening the tweeter screws. I guess not. It makes a high pitched noise and when I press on the sides of the tweeter faceplate it goes away. It's ringing or something. It sounds like ringing. ...

That is a problem with your speaker. If you cannot tighten the screws on the tweeter to deal with this, you are going to probably want the manufacturer to fix them if they are still under warranty. If they are not under warranty, and tightening the screws does not fix the problem, I would remove the tweeter and install a gasket of some sort and screw the thing back in to see if that fixed the problem. This, of course, is a problem with your speaker, and it will be bad for the sound. I once had some strange sounds from one of my speakers, but tightening the screws for the tweeter fixed it. Evidently, the plate for the tweeter was vibrating against the cabinet because it was not adequately secured.

 

[ousooner2]

No it wouldn't. If it did, there would be no need for them to make anechoic chambers to measure speakers. Even if you put your microphone 1 inch from the tweeter, there would still be some room effects.




Of course, it is possible that there is something wrong with your speakers. Maybe they are not functioning up to specifications. But it is difficult to know this from the information you have provided.

With rooms that are acoustically "live," the room will affect your measurements more than with "dead" rooms. When you clap your hands once, do you hear a slight echo in your room? If you hear any echo at all (as is common in empty rooms with no furniture), your room is too live and it will impact the sound very significantly.

Also, you do not seem to have stated how you have run the test. Which speaker did you test? And what results did you get with the other speaker? You ought to be measuring only one speaker at a time, with all of the others off. If you had both front speakers producing sound when you did your measurements, you would be picking up sound from the other speaker. Since treble is more directional than lower frequencies, this would mean that the lower frequencies would likely be boosted more than the treble would be. So, what, exactly, did you do to measure your speakers, and why is it that you do not have two sets of measurements, one for each right and left front speaker?

In fact, from rereading your opening post, the way you have worded it strongly suggests that you simply did the test in a completely wrong manner.

Thanks.

I don't hear much of an echo at all. Here's the room:

Usually pillows on the couch, but that's pretty much it for now. Older pic, but there's still no table or anything to create any more reflections than what you see.

I have measured one speaker at a time, but that was back a month or so ago during the original test. I will test individual speakers this evening. I'm only testing the FR and FL at the moment. I did have both speakers producing pink noise at the same time, but it's a single, pink noise frequency (2kHz, 600hz, 10kHz, etc...not the whole band; I can do the whole band too, along with a ton of other options; see Autosound discs, Alan Parsons Soundcheck disc, Focal setup disc, etc)

I will measure them individually tonight and get back with the results. Using 1/3 octave pink noise tones from Alan Parsons Soundcheck disc in WAV format. From PC to WDTV-Live (wifi) to Denon 1712 to speakers

 

[Pyrrho]

Thanks.

I don't hear much of an echo at all. Here's the room:

Usually pillows on the couch, but that's pretty much it for now. Older pic, but there's still no table or anything to create any more reflections than what you see.

I have measured one speaker at a time, but that was back a month or so ago during the original test. I will test individual speakers this evening. I'm only testing the FR and FL at the moment. I did have both speakers producing pink noise at the same time,

That is a mistake. You cannot get accurate numbers for your speaker that way at all. You must have sound coming from one speaker only, and otherwise the room should be quiet. That is what will give you the in-room performance of that speaker. Other sounds in the room will be picked up by the microphone if there are any, and those sounds will make your readings inaccurate. And really, I think this is the explanation for why your measurements were what they were. Lower frequencies are less directional, and so you will likely be picking up more of them from the other speaker than you would for the higher frequencies.

but it's a single, pink noise frequency (2kHz, 600hz, 10kHz, etc...not the whole band;

It does not matter. It is still sound coming from the other speaker, so it will be picked up by the microphone. You must have sound from one speaker only, or your measurements are useless for telling what you are getting from each speaker.

Also, you are not using the correct terminology. Individual test tones are not pink noise.

I can do the whole band too, along with a ton of other options; see Autosound discs, Alan Parsons Soundcheck disc, Focal setup disc, etc)

I will measure them individually tonight and get back with the results. Using 1/3 octave pink noise tones from Alan Parsons Soundcheck disc in WAV format. From PC to WDTV-Live (wifi) to Denon 1712 to speakers

That room looks like you will have a lot of reflections off of the walls. Basically, if you have nothing on ordinary walls, sound will bounce back and forth in the room. Glass windows also reflect sound. It is a good idea to have something that absorbs sound on at least one of the opposing walls. Thus, carpet on the floor often means that one need not be too worried about the ceiling, though it can still be an issue.

I am not recommending any special acoustic treatment that will be hideous to look at, like black egg crate looking foam or some other ugly things on the walls. Paintings, tapestries, curtains, all absorb sound and help with unwanted reflections. If you have a wife or girlfriend who has been wanting more things on the walls, this is your chance to make her happy and improve the acoustics of the room.

By the way, it looks like a nice room.


Also, I added something to my post above about the vibrating faceplate of your tweeter. That is a problem with your speaker, and you should fix it or get it fixed; see above.

 

[ousooner2]

Thanks. Once the little girl takes a nap I'll run some pink noise using only one speaker at a time and post the results. And yeah, things are going up on the walls, etc soon. Purchased this house, then her car broke down so we bought her a new car. Then we had the little one. Then my '04 TL decided to start falling apart ...again...so I got a new car lol. It's been an expensive year.

 

[ousooner2]

This is the FRONT LEFT measurement (emp e55ti). Wifey says grocery store and Hobby Lobby run so FR speaker measurement later haha.


*Measured with 1/3 octave pink noise (WAV format) with JUST the FRONT LEFT speaker. Measured from 1' away at tweeter height

 

[PENG]

That can't be it because Audyssey is measuring it and saying it needs a lot of boost. Nevermind on that thought lol

I thought your measurements show a drop of 20 dB in that range and Audyssey "flat" (i.e. no intentional rolll off) would only boosts 6 dB for the same range. I would trust Audyssey more for sure, mainly because you said it sounds great with Audyssey engaged. Anyway now that you confirm you did not measure one speaker at at time, that would be a factor so let's wait for your new measurements and go from there.

 

[ousooner2]

When going into Audyssey and using Manual EQ, you can only apply a boost of UP TO +6dB. Cuts can be applied up to -12dB. I assume that Audyssey will do the same with it's EQ (only apply up to a +6dB boost). So it might need/want more, but it's limits are reached at +6dB

 

[RichB]

When going into Audyssey and using Manual EQ, you can only apply a boost of UP TO +6dB. Cuts can be applied up to -12dB. I assume that Audyssey will do the same with it's EQ (only apply up to a +6dB boost). So it might need/want more, but it's limits are reached at +6dB

That makes sense since it required +6 DB 4 times the amplifier power and you may be correcting the speakers and not the room.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When going into Audyssey and using Manual EQ, you can only apply a boost of UP TO +6dB. Cuts can be applied up to -12dB. I assume that Audyssey will do the same with it's EQ (only apply up to a +6dB boost). So it might need/want more, but it's limits are reached at +6dB

I know on the Denon 33xx and up, you can boost the speaker channel levels by +12.0 dB and cut by -12.0 dB.

I guess the lower models can only boost by +6.0 dB?

 

[ousooner2]

I guess so. I'll double check tonight.

 

[PENG]

I guess so. I'll double check tonight.

Bass and Treble adjustment limit are +/- 6dB for the graphic equalizer (Manual), but I thought Audyssey could do +/- 10dB (not entirely sure), and even more for the sub channel. In either case, I think the limits are imposed by the hardware, that is, the AVR, not Audyssey. Interestly zone 2/3 has a higher limit of +/- 10dB

If you email Audyssey you will get a reply within a couple of days.

ADTG: The 12dB limit is for volume level.