Yamaha RXA-3050 shut off problem

Discussion in 'Amps, Pre-Pros & Receivers' started by Andy Carter, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. Andy Carter Audiophyte

    Andy Carter
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    Hi Everyone,

    After reading this forum for as long as i can remember. Looking at the helpful comments of other members, it seems i could do with a little help myself.

    The story so far - I've been having check SP wire errors and the amp shutting off when i play music at around -30 to -25. I started testing different things, unplugging all but the front speakers etc. On the final test the amp shut off but when i turned it back on i heard what sounded like a spark and a pop (quite loud) and now when i reset the amp with the tone control, info, and main zone button the amp comes on for two secs then shuts off. I've resorted to the fact that its blown and probably needs a repair.

    In the front L/R rear L/R and centre i have 5 B&W vm1's and 4 B&W CCM684 speakers in the ceiling via the 4 presence outputs. Now this is where it gets complicated (for me). I have left and right subwoofers. The left is a B&W AS2 and the right is a Rel T9. Both the subs are connected via phono to the amp for movies. The Rel speakon connector is connected to the front left and right channels. The b&w AS1 also has speaker outputs which are also plugged into the front left and right channels, these are all connected via piggybacked banana plugs.

    My questions is:- Have i overloaded the front channels or is the way i have them connected the correct way? My vm1 speakers are set to small and crossover at 100hz.

    Thanks in advance to anyone who may be able help with my problem.
  2. Pogre Audioholic Ninja

    Pogre
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    I'm not sure if I understand your explanation. Are you saying that you have more than one speaker wired in parallel to one channel?
  3. lovinthehd Audioholic Spartan

    lovinthehd
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    The subs as he has them setup are using both low level and high level connections, a british audiophile thing when it comes to brit subs near as I can tell :) Whether such is causing problems, hard to know...what "amp" is it that you're using?

    Phono I assume means an rca connector and not really thru the phono circuit...
  4. everettT Audioholic General

    everettT
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    Something seems afoot
  5. Andy Carter Audiophyte

    Andy Carter
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    Thanks for your interest and replys. Ill try to elaborate. My Receiver is a Yamaha RX-A3050, My main left and right channel has a B&W VM1 satellite speaker plugged into each channel via banana plugs (light blue wires). My first subwoofer is a B&W AS2 that has left and right speaker outputs as well as an rca connector. The rca connector is plugged into the sub output of the amp. The left and right outputs are plugged into the same speaker terminals on the amp that the VM1's are plugged into via banana plugs that connect together (white wires) and my rel sub is also connected to the + on the right channel and the + and - on the left channel blue yellow and red wire (see picture). I've tested for shorts and cant find any problem.

    IMG_2129.JPG

    Thanks again Andy.
  6. lovinthehd Audioholic Spartan

    lovinthehd
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    Have you tried simply using the avr's pre-out to the subs only, and simply utilizing the avr's crossover alone instead of the dodgy simultaneous high and low level connections?

    You've connected speaker level outputs on the B&W sub to speaker level outputs on the avr, but the sub is only connected to the avr's sub pre-out? The B&W sub will output from the speaker level outputs this way?

    Why all the strange connections?

    ps Not enuf coffee, connecting the speaker level outputs on the B&W sub to the speaker outputs on the avr is nuts....like The Warrior says.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017 at 11:48 AM
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  7. TheWarrior Audioholic Samurai

    TheWarrior
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    You've lowered the impedance seen by the receivers amp to a dangerous level and are risking permanent damage to every active component in that chain. Speaker connections are for speakers. LFE is for subwoofers, regardless of what REL's slick marketing will tell you.

    Bass performance in homes is largely dictated by the room itself. I can recommend reading if you'd like to know more, but for the subject of this thread, you need to disconnect the subs from the speaker outputs. That will solve your problem of the receiver shutting off.
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  8. Pogre Audioholic Ninja

    Pogre
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    That's what it sounded like to me. And after looking at that mess of interconnects I can see problems on top of problems. Its no wonder the receiver blew.
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  9. slipperybidness Audioholic Spartan

    slipperybidness
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    Why? I mean WHY, WHY, WHY would you possibly connect it like this?

    You are looking for trouble, and you found it!

    Did this ever work correctly?

    You may have just learned an expensive $$$ lesson.....

    Hopefully you will get this sorted out and did not kill something $$$
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  10. TheWarrior Audioholic Samurai

    TheWarrior
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    Thankfully it doesn't sound like the receiver is wrecked....yet!
  11. ATLAudio Full Audioholic

    ATLAudio
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    Does REL suggest a setup like this? I'd find this hard to believe, but I could be wrong.
  12. Pogre Audioholic Ninja

    Pogre
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    I dunno dude, did you read this part of his post?
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  13. Pogre Audioholic Ninja

    Pogre
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    Surely not. It's a recipe for disaster. I think op misunderstood what rsl says the sub is capable of or something. He was running 2 speakers in parallel from each of his front 2 channels. Have no idea how the rest of it is connected...
  14. lovinthehd Audioholic Spartan

    lovinthehd
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  15. slipperybidness Audioholic Spartan

    slipperybidness
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    Re-read the OP post# 5 again carefully.

    IF he really has it hooked up like he described, then he has Sub OUTPUTS from the sub connected back to SPEAKER OUTPUTS on the AVR!

    Perhaps he is confused and using the wrong terms for the cxns, or perhaps his description is indeed accurate.

    Some info from that post #5:

    My main left and right channel has a B&W VM1 satellite speaker plugged into each channel via banana plugs (light blue wires). My first subwoofer is a B&W AS2 that has left and right speaker outputs as well as an rca connector. The rca connector is plugged into the sub output of the amp. The left and right outputs are plugged into the same speaker terminals [speaker terminals = outputs] on the amp that the VM1's are plugged into via banana plugs that connect together (white wires) and my rel sub is also connected to the + on the right channel and the + and - on the left channel blue yellow and red wire (see picture).
  16. Pogre Audioholic Ninja

    Pogre
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    But this...

    IMG_2129.JPG
    This has critical failure written all over it. Am I right about the parallel connections and lowered impedances? I'm sure that's what blew his amp. I don't think I've ever seen a connection like this.
  17. Andy Carter Audiophyte

    Andy Carter
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    Im only connecting the subs as it clearly states in the manuals

    IMG_2130.JPG
    Application: 2-channel audio
    For 2-channel operation, use speaker level
    rather than line level connections. The
    subwoofer presents a high impedance load
    to the stereo power amplifier and takes
    very little current, so may be connected in
    parallel with the main speakers with no
    adverse effects. (this is from the bw sub manual)


    IMG_2132.JPG

    Connecing and Setting up

    High-level connection, using the enclosed cable with the Neutrik® Speakon® connector, is always the first choice. This connection can be made without affecting the performance of the amplifier because the REL’s amplifier input impedance is 150,000 ohms, in effect producing NO addional load on the rest of your system

    (This is from the rel t9 manual.)

    Im confused, if the books are wrong how does anyone learn the correct way of doing things.

    I can say i have tried using just the low level rca's but when i get the bass right for music its to overpowering for movies or am i missing something else?

    Thanks again.

    Attached Files:

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  18. lovinthehd Audioholic Spartan

    lovinthehd
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    Can you clarify what you said about the speaker level outputs on the B&W sub? Or did you mean speaker level inputs on the sub?

    Music and movies are recorded differently could be one reason you may need to make adjustments for one vs the other.....perhaps simply your preference to have a healthy amount of additional bass for music, whereas you don't feel movies don't need so much...
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  19. slipperybidness Audioholic Spartan

    slipperybidness
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    Yes, parallel cxns will lower the impedance (i.e. a more difficult load to drive).

    However, (if it was hooked up correctly) a sub-woofer speaker-level input should have a "very high input impedance" (maybe 47kohm or 100kohm for example). So, the impedance will still be dominated by the low impedance input of the actual speaker (i.e. the load won't change much).

    Now, as a quick example, if you have an impedance and then add the same impedance in parallel, then the total impedance was just split in half.
  20. slipperybidness Audioholic Spartan

    slipperybidness
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    OK, and exactly where in the manual does it tell you to use BOTH high level and low level inputs on that sub????

    I think your best bet would be to get rid of all of these speaker-level inputs to the subs and go back to the LFE/Sub channel input ONLY. Then, learn how to control the bass properly by reading the AVR manual.
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