Yamaha RX-V1500 upgrade

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wsgroves

Enthusiast
Hey everyone..new to the forum here and seeking info from you experts.
I have a old Yamaha RX-V1500 that I am using with a pair of Paradigm Monitor 90p speakers.
I absolutely love the full sound that this produces, but am really wanting to upgrade the receiver as I have a lot of hdmi items I would like to connect it to.
I have tried a Onkyo TX-NR609 setup with my speakers but was not happy with the sound quality that it produced.

I am wondering, those that have had the V1500 in the past, what would be a good upgrade for me with the same type of sonic properties or better?

I was considering the Sony STR-DN1040 as it is relatively cheap and has some good reviews. I have also Owned a few Sony ES units in the past such as the DA35es etc and really liked their sounds.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
wsg
 
M

metalmancpa

Audioholic Intern
Any reason why you wouldn't look at Yamaha? I upgraded my quite old RX-V2090/DDP-2 combination with the RX-A3020 and I couldn't be happier. I too have always liked the sound of Yamaha, and the 3020 pushes my ADS 1290/2 speakers quite well. There are several price points within the Aventage line to look at.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am wondering, those that have had the V1500 in the past, what would be a good upgrade for me with the same type of sonic properties or better?

I was considering the Sony STR-DN1040 as it is relatively cheap and has some good reviews. I have also Owned a few Sony ES units in the past such as the DA35es etc and really liked their sounds.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
wsg
I have not owned a V1500 but is very familiar with it. It is one of those neutral sounding one that I would expect from Yamaha but it does not have a lot of power for your speakers in a large room. If both used within its power limit I really doubt it would sound much different than the 609 in pure direct mode. The 1500 is more powerful than the 609 especially in two channel mode for sure but not by much so I wouldn't expect that to be a problem unless the 1500 is already driven to close to its limit. That could be the case as the 90p are relatively big and likely have enough impedance dips over the low to mid frequency range that could make them somewhat power hungry.

Sony ES are good, I owned a couple of the older models before but again like the 1500 they (I refer to their higher end models only) are not that powerful in all channel mode but great in two channel stereo. If you are in a relatively large room and like to listen loud, you may be further ahead by going with a lower priced RX-A model that has pre-outs plus a two channel power amp such as though from Outlaw, Parasound, ATI, Anthem etc., otherwise the 3020 Metal suggested would probably be your best bet as a one box solution.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
$600 MSRP Sony 1030: 135WPC x 2Ch 8 ohms/168WPC c 2Ch 4 ohms/90WPC x 5Ch 8 ohms.
$1200 MSRP Yamaha RX-A1020: 129WPC x 2Ch 8 ohms/173WPC x 2Ch 4 ohms/73WPC x 5Ch 8 ohms.<O:p</O:p
$2200 MSRP Yamaha RX-A3020: 162W x 2Ch 8 ohms/258W x 2Ch 4 ohms/69W x 5Ch 8 ohms.

So the Sony seems to have plenty of power (assuming the 1040 is similar to the 1030 model). As you can see, the $600MSRP Sony is about equal in power to the $1200MSRP Yamaha.

In 2Ch 4 ohms, the $1200 Yamaha measly outputs 5 watts more than the $600 Sony. :D

The $2200MSRP Yamaha has 27Watts more power in 2Ch 8 ohms (insignificant), 90W more in 2Ch 4 ohms, and 21W LESS in 5Ch 8 ohms (insignificant). It takes TWICE the power to achieve 3dB gain in volume. IOW, the Yamaha would need to produce 168W x 2 = 336WPC into 4 ohms to achieve a 3dB gain in volume. 90W more power would achieve about a 1.5dB increase in volume. :D

If you are not using any EQ (subwoofer EQ, room EQ, Dynamic EQ) and just use Direct modes, then I think the Sony will sound as good as any AVR.

I don't think it's worth paying the extra money for the Yamaha, especially if you are using only Direct modes (no Room EQ, no Subwoofer EQ, no Dynamic EQ).

And if you want to use Room EQ, Subwoofer EQ, and Dynamic EQ, I would get the Denon X4000 (MSRP $1300).
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
$600 MSRP Sony 1030: 134.7WPC x 2Ch 8 ohms/167.7WPC c 2Ch 4 ohms/90.4WPC x 5Ch 8 ohms.
$1200 MSRP Yamaha RX-A1020: 129.2WPC x 2Ch 8 ohms/173.0WPC x 2Ch 4 ohms/73.2WPC x 5Ch 8 ohms.<o:p


So the Sony seems to have plenty of power (assuming the 1040 is similar to the 1030 model). As you can see, the $600MSRP Sony is about equal in power to the $1200MSRP Yamaha.

If you are not using any EQ (subwoofer EQ, room EQ, Dynamic EQ) and just use Direct modes, then I think the Sony will sound as good as any AVR.

</o
Based on the 2 channel specs, the Yamaha has more power reserves than the Sony and is able to better handle a 4 ohm load.

From the article... http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-all-channels-driven-acd-amplifier-test/the-all-channels-driven-acd-amplifier-test-page-5


The problem however (as documented in our previous article: The All Channels Driven Test Controversy) is that many budget products are designed for real world performance and must make trade offs for safety and heat dissipation reasons. As a result, they design their amps to be dynamic, but limit the total output capability of the product with a limiter that activates if more than three channels are driven at full power. The result of driving more than three channels at full power is reduced power delivery to all channels to satisfy the heat dissipation requirements of UL, as well as the manufacturer's requirements for dependability and reliability. Thus, when a publication does the classic ACD test into 5 or 7 channels, the reader can get the wrong impression that the amplifier isn't very capable at delivering power despite the fact it exceeds manufacturers specs with flying colors with only one or two channels driven continuously, and also satisfies the old FTC mandate for rating power into two channels.
Let's take the following Scenario when comparing two similarly priced receivers.

  • Receiver #1: rated at 110wpc (# of channels driven not specified, but FTC mandates it must apply to at least two channels)
  • Receiver #2: rated at 70wpc ACD

If we bench test both receivers with just two channels driven, we more often than not find that Receiver #1 was able to comfortably exceed its rating into 8 ohms and deliver respectable power delivery into 4 ohms (usually higher than the 8 ohm rating). Receiver #2 will usually exceed its 8 ohm rating but typically at a smaller margin than receiver #1 and, more often than not, maintains a similar power rating for 8 and 4 ohm loads. Of course an ideal amplifier should act like a constant voltage source and double power delivery when speaker impedance is halved. Very few receivers, and only the better separates amps, have a robust enough amp topologies and correspondingly robust power supplies to achieve such a feat.
So, in reality, Receiver #1 has the potential to deliver more power than Receiver #2, especially into 4 ohm loads, when driving one or up to three channels simultaneously with a correlated audio source. But because of the thermal limitations of the budget sized receiver, which aims at designing a dynamic amplifier over one that can provide sustained power into all channels simultaneously, it has to limit the power delivery when the amplifier is taxed with a correlated audio source to more than three channels. During loud transients Receiver #1 will likely be able to deliver cleaner output because it has more available headroom than Receiver #2.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Based on the 2 channel specs, the Yamaha has more power reserves than the Sony and is able to better handle a 4 ohm load.
We are talking about a measly 5 watts difference.

What good is a theoretical better power reserve if the aggressive protection circuit puts the Yamaha AVR into protection mode before the Sony?

At any rate, it is not worth the huge price difference.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
We are talking about a measly 5 watts difference.

What good is a theoretical better power reserve if the aggressive protection circuit puts the Yamaha AVR into protection mode before the Sony?

At any rate, it is not worth the huge price difference.
The difference is more than a few watts... Yamaha has 44 Watts compared to 33 of the Sony in its ability to handle 4 ohm loads. The ACD has too many flaws in it to make it a valid test according to Audioholic's article. As I stated before, the Yamaha is better equipped to handle 4 ohm loads.
 
W

wsgroves

Enthusiast
I am currently using the system in 2ch mode as the rest of the system (which is Paradigm) is not being used atm (2 kids).
I just am unsure as to how much I want to spend right now on it, thus why I was considering the Sony STR-DN1040. I dont mind paying 2k for a nice receiver but not sure if its needed to match my current receivers level?
As a side note, I usually do not run direct. I usually just leave it in 2ch stereo mode.
Also, meant to say that I owned the Onkyo TX-NR609 but was not happy with its sound. IMHO the old Yamaha has a richer sound to me.
Oh and I have no problem going with Yamaha again I really like them, just unsure if I need top of the line at this moment.
I like the Yamaha RX-V675, but some of the reviews I read make me second guess its sonic properties.

Thanks all.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I am currently using the system in 2ch mode as the rest of the system (which is Paradigm) is not being used atm (2 kids).
I just am unsure as to how much I want to spend right now on it, thus why I was considering the Sony STR-DN1040. I dont mind paying 2k for a nice receiver but not sure if its needed to match my current receivers level?
As a side note, I usually do not run direct. I usually just leave it in 2ch stereo mode.
Also, meant to say that I owned the Onkyo TX-NR609 but was not happy with its sound. IMHO the old Yamaha has a richer sound to me.
Oh and I have no problem going with Yamaha again I really like them, just unsure if I need top of the line at this moment.
I like the Yamaha RX-V675, but some of the reviews I read make me second guess its sonic properties.

Thanks all.
Seems like you just want to play 2Ch stereo at moderate volume.

You can get a new Denon 2113 for $497:
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-2113CI-Networking-Theater-Receiver/dp/B00829USIU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394639223&sr=8-1&keywords=denon+2113

This $500 Denon will output a little less than the Denon 2313, a little more than the Denon 1913. The $500 Denon 2113 will also output more than the $500 Yamaha 575.

In addition, the $500 Denon 2123 has Audyssey XT room correction, Subwoofer EQ, and Dynamic EQ (my favorite if you haven't read any of my other posts :D).

Power Output @ 1% THD 2CH 8 ohms/ 2CH 4 ohms/ 5CH 8 ohms
Denon 2313: 152.1/192.5/90.8<O:p</O:p
Denon 1913: 117.7/151.1/81.7
Yamaha 573: 111.4/126.2/24.9
 
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W

wsgroves

Enthusiast
Yea I am only running a stereo setup at the moment as I dont want my kids knocking over my rear speakers on their stands lol.
I am just after basically something that will sonicly sound as good as my Yamaha but for a decent price. Thats why I was loooking at the Sony. Also I need a lot of hdmi inputs.

I should also add that I have a 70 inch tv and my 2 monitors sit way to the sides, yet I can close my eyes and it still sounds like the dialogue is perfectly coming from the tv. I dont wanna loose any of that imaging.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I am currently using the system in 2ch mode as the rest of the system (which is Paradigm) is not being used atm (2 kids).
I just am unsure as to how much I want to spend right now on it, thus why I was considering the Sony STR-DN1040. I dont mind paying 2k for a nice receiver but not sure if its needed to match my current receivers level?
As a side note, I usually do not run direct. I usually just leave it in 2ch stereo mode.
Also, meant to say that I owned the Onkyo TX-NR609 but was not happy with its sound. IMHO the old Yamaha has a richer sound to me.
Oh and I have no problem going with Yamaha again I really like them, just unsure if I need top of the line at this moment.
I like the Yamaha RX-V675, but some of the reviews I read make me second guess its sonic properties.

Thanks all.
AVRs with all DSP processinsg turned off should sound identical if they are driving a load well within their design load limits. Its only when you push them beyond their limits is when the sonic differences begin to show up. Sonic differences also show up in the DSP modes as well. Don't pay too much attention to the superlatives and descriptions of the sonic qualities of AVRs and amps when reading these reviews. Its all based on sighted listening tests and we humans have a flaw in that we listen with more than just our ears. Sight bias as a strong influence on what we hear. I'd say kick the tires on the Sony, Yamaha, Denons and see which model you find easiest to use and has the feature set you are looking for. Keep in mind the room size, the load the speakers present to the AVR and use that for choosing your appropriate model within that manufacturer's line up. :)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Power Output @ 1% THD 2CH 8 ohms/ 2CH 4 ohms/ 5CH 8 ohms
Denon 3312: 143.3/225.5/103.0

I would call Electronic Expo and inquire about the Denon 3313. They are selling for about $800. Ask them if they would sell you for $600 delivered. I bet they will. Let them know that others have bought for that price.

This is a nice AVR. It has plenty of power and even has pre-amp output to use external amps if you should ever need more power.
 
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W

wsgroves

Enthusiast
7 to start with. I will check out that Denon, looks nice and good price.
edit, what if I could get my hands on a used Yamaha RX-A3000 for a couple hundred bux?
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
7 to start with. I will check out that Denon, looks nice and good price.
edit, what if I could get my hands on a used Yamaha RX-A3000 for a couple hundred bux?
Take it!! It has an awesome amplifier and power supply section.... check this out... It almost doubled its output into 4 ohms which is unheard of in an AVR!!!


Yamaha RX-A3000 Aventage 11.2 Networking A/V Receiver Review | Audioholics

From the review ..
The Yamaha RX-A3000 handedly exceeded its 140wpc power rating continuously with two channels driven and stomped out an impressive 236wpc both channels driven into 4 ohms; and that’s a full power bandwidth measurement (20Hz to 20kHz at 0.1% THD + N). It proved to be every bit as powerful as their more expensive RX-Z7 mode. You can see the protection circuit kick on during our ACD tests, purposely limiting power to 65wpc. In short time, there is no doubt in my mind forum lurkers seeing this will pop up on our site or AVS Forum bashing Yamaha, not realizing the design purpose of power limiting a multi channel amplifier in a compact chassis, or the reality that real world program material will never trip this limiter circuitry. Thus we conducted dynamic burst power measurements simulating real world program content. Interestingly enough the RX-A3000 delivered similar dynamic power output ACD into 8 ohm loads and slightly more power two channels driven into 4 ohm loads than the Emotiva UPA-7 dedicated multi-channel power amplifier that is designed to deliver rated power continuously into all channels as can be seen in the comparison table below.



To get the number of HDMI ports, buy an HDMI switch box to get what you need.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I don't see a budget mentioned. You should always say how much you are looking to spend, and any hard limits should be mentioned as well. Here is what I would buy for $700:

Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1020 7.2-channel home theater receiver with Apple AirPlay® at Crutchfield.com

Here is what I would buy for $1500:

Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A3020 9.2-channel home theater receiver with Apple AirPlay® at Crutchfield.com

They are both discounted because they are last year's models. Those prices include shipping.

As for a used RX-A3000, if you can get one in good condition for little money, get it. I frankly don't know why anyone would want to sell it for little money, or sell it all, really, unless one were desperate for money.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
As for a used RX-A3000, if you can get one in good condition for little money, get it. I frankly don't know why anyone would want to sell it for little money, or sell it all, really, unless one were desperate for money. However, it does not have your 7 HDMI inputs, so you would need to buy an HDMI switch box.
Actually the RX-A3000 has 7 HDMI inputs in the back and 1 in the front.
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A3000-7-1-Channel-Receiver-VERSION/dp/B003XDU47K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394650398&sr=8-1&keywords=yamaha+rx-a3000
 
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