Yamaha AVR - Pioneer Speakers Compatibility Check - Please Help

S

Shekar Kutta

Audiophyte
Hi All,

I'm looking to buy Yamaha RX-V377 Receiver as it offers all features that I wanted. As I was looking around I was impressed with Pioneer SP-3335TT Todoroki speaker package
I've tried my best to check if the Pioneer speaker system are compatible with Yamaha receiver but couldn't get anywhere.
Things that I wanted to know are the Rated Output Power compatibility are
1) If the Pioneer speakers can deliver all the Features offered by the receiver.
2) If Yamaha YPAO Sound Optimization for Automatic Speaker Set Up really work with the Pioneer speakers.
3) Few people warned me about the Ω compatibility between the AVR and Speaker system.
I'm from India and when compared the price, the setup seems to be expensive and I really don't want to end up with incorrect setup after spending a lot of money.
I've consulted Yamaha & Pioneer experts from local stores here and they don't seem to be certain about the compatibility.

I'm really really hoping that you guys could help me on this.

Thanks!!
 
M

Muzykant

Audioholic
There are no compatibility issues here. The impedance and power ratings are compatible, and the number of channels match the number of speakers. Receivers are not usually speaker-specific, so you can use pretty much any brand of speakers with your Yamaha.
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
Welcome to the forum Shekar!

The Yamaha RX-V377 is a good choice and a pretty reasonable entry-level AVR. It was favorably reviewed by AH:
Yamaha RX-V377 Receiver Preview | Audioholics. What is it's approximate retail price in India?

To directly answer your questions; there are no inherent "compatibility" concerns between the Yamaha and the Pioneer speaker package. They are all specified as 8Ω impedance, so the Yamaha will set them up and power them without a problem.

However putting it bluntly, those particular Pioneers are terrible speakers. They're cheap for a reason.

SP-3335TT | Pioneer India

The sensitivity of all speakers is very low (88dB/1W/1m for the centre must be a typo). The centre and surrounds are "1-way" speakers without a tweeter. The fronts have a second dummy woofer that won't do anything (a "passive radiator" is useless in a vented enclosure). Frequency responses quoted without -XdB levels are useless. The sub does not list even a basic frequency response, which is always a worry.

Shekar, you would be far better off with something like the Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers. These are widely regarded to be among the best performing budget speakers around.

AJ-5235XT | Pioneer India

I realise that the total price could be an issue however. My best advice here is not to think you must buy all speakers and sub at once. Your budget is spread too thin and results in you settling for poor quality. If you're coming from nothing, you will get a great deal of enjoyment out of a 2.1 system of reasonable quality. It will keep you amused for months while you save up for your next purchase. In the long run, say over 12 - 18 months, you will end up with a far superior system.

Sticking with Pioneer, I would start with a pair of the Andrew Jones BS-SP22 bookshelves and at least the S-MS3SW sub (not the one in the system above), and build your system from there over time. The next step would be the centre channel speaker. Later on, you could buy the towers and shift the bookshelves to surround duty.

I asked about the price of the Yamaha earlier because, for a reasonably well balanced audio system you should only be spending about 25% of your total budget on electronics (player & AVR). The bulk of your budget (about 75%) should be spent on speakers and sub(s), because this is where the biggest gains in sound quality can be made with extra expenditure.

Are there other speaker and sub brands available that you're interested in?
 
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S

Shekar Kutta

Audiophyte
Hi GIEGAR,
I sincerely thank you & appreciate your help on this matter. Your post was very helpful.

To answer your question, The Yamaha RX-V377 5.1 Channel AV R costs about 31,500 INR & Pioneer SP-3335TT Todoroki speaker package costs about 27,000 INR.

I can spend upto 25,000 INR for the Speakers and an Active Sub-Woofer.
I was wondering if the speakers can deliver the features like Virtual CINEMA FRONT, HD Audio with CINEMA DSP, Subwoofer Trim for Improved Sound Imaging if we mix and match...

I'm a Bass lover and I was sort of impressed with the deep base produced by the Active Sub-woofer included Pioneer SP-3335TT package. Now that you have a bad opinion about it, I'm open to other options like to mix and match.

Thanks!!!
 
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G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
Hi GIEGAR,
I sincerely thank you & appreciate your help on this matter. Your post was very helpful.

To answer your question, The Yamaha RX-V377 5.1 Channel AV R costs about 31,500 INR & Pioneer SP-3335TT Todoroki speaker package costs about 27,000 INR.
Thanks for the prices. As I alluded to above, in comparison to your AVR's price (which is good) you are significantly underspending on speakers and sub with the Todoroki package. In the long run, you should be looking to spend about 90 000 INR on a set of speakers and a sub for a well balanced system. As I said though, you can do this over time as your budget permits. Starting with a better quality 2.1 system to manage your initial outlay is perfectly fine. You just need to settle a speaker "family" you like and grow your system.

I can spend upto 25,000 INR for the Speakers and an Active Sub-Woofer.
The S-MS3SW sub is 13,000 INR. Based on the AJ SP-BS22 bookshelves being about half the price of the AJ SP-FS52 towers (23,000 INR) or about 12,000 INR, you should be on budget with a pretty respectable 2.1 system.

I was wondering if the speakers can deliver the features like Virtual CINEMA FRONT, HD Audio with CINEMA DSP, Subwoofer Trim for Improved Sound Imaging if we mix and match...
Shekar, there's no problem here whatsoever... it's a non-issue. The AVR has not been set up to work best with Yamaha speakers or anything. These various DSP modes will work fine with any speaker. AVR manufacturers do not know what type of speakers owners will hook up, so they must implement their various DSP modes to work well regardless of the of speakers. I'd just make the point here that you should not be relying on various clever DSP modes making a fantastic contribution to overall audio quality. You'll be disappointed. The best way to improve overall audio quality is simply to get better quality speakers and pay some attention to placing them properly in the room.

The YPAO setup routine will send test signals to each of the speakers and sub and measure the actual in-room response of each one with the included microphone. It will then determine individual level trims, delays/distances, crossovers and apply some parametric equalisation filters to each channel.

I'm a Bass lover and I was sort of impressed with the deep base produced by the Active Sub-woofer included Pioneer SP-3335TT package. Now that you have a bad opinion about it, I'm open to other options like to mix and match.

Thanks!!!
If you liked the sub in the Todoroki package, the S-MS3SW sub will be a significantly better.

There is absolutely no problem with mixing brands of speakers and subs. Actually, it's better that you do because (with a few exceptions) specialist speaker manufacturers make the best performing speakers and specialist sub manufacturers make the best performing subs. Similarly, manufacturers of AVR's generally don't make the best speakers. (There are exceptions of course... the AJ Pioneers are very good for the price and Pioneer/TAD and Yamaha both make excellent high end speakers.) If you look at the systems listed by members in their signitures here, you will see that the great majority don't have AVRs/speakers/subs from the same manufacturer.

What else is available in India? If PSB speakers are available, look at the Alpha line. If SVS subs are available, look at the PB-1000. I expect these will be a fair bit more expensive than the AJ Pioneers though.
 
S

Shekar Kutta

Audiophyte
Hi GIEGAR,

I tried to find the Sub and the BS 22 speakers as adviced but I'm not able to find them online or locally to order... However while searching locally I happen to visit 1 of Onkyo outlet... The guy there was sort of trying to push Onkyo AV R saying it can play as low as 0.5 frequency where as Yamaha V377 can only play/support starting from 1.. And mentioned that Yamaha won't be able to play few fine detailed sounds due to this...
And also I came across Elac BS 53.2 speakers for 16,000 INR.


Could you pls advice on these...??



Thanks.
 
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G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
0.5Hz! :eek:

The salesman pushing the Onkyo has no idea what he's talking about. For a start, content cannot actually be authored/encoded below 3Hz (Dolby Digital). Even if it was, subs can't reproduce it with any authority and the human hearing system doesn't go anywhere near hearing it. It's just nonsense. If you see him again, ask for examples of movies/music with 0.5Hz content. :cool:

What model was the Onkyo AVR? Do you recall the price?

This is the Pioneer sub I linked earlier: S-MS3SW | Pioneer India. It looks available. Have a look on Amazon for the Pioneer BS-SP22 bookshelves. I'd be very surprised if you can't find them for sale by the pair somewhere.

I don't know anything about Elac speakers in general. From the quick look at the specs, they should be pretty reasonable. See if you can have a listen to a full 5 speaker system in the shop, because that's ultimately what you will be aiming for.

ELAC Klang lebt BS 53.2
 
S

Shekar Kutta

Audiophyte
Hi Giegar,
I knew that the Onkyo guy didn't know much about the system by the way he was explaining the features to me..
The price that he quotes for the Onkyo AV-R was about 29,000 INR but I don't recall the Model number.

About the Sub & Speakers, I'll check in few Pioneer outlets nearby in a weeks and keep you posted!

Need to compare Pioneer BS-SP22 - Elac 53.2 - Jamo S622 bookshelves locally which are around the same price range.

Thanks!
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
No worries! Let us know how you go.

The Jamo's look like a good option. They are a 4 inch 2-way, so on the small side for mains in the long run, but they'll be fine as surrounds. As with all the options, make sure you're happy with the matching towers and centre channel, because that's what you're ultimately aiming for.

Good luck!
 
S

Shekar Kutta

Audiophyte
Sure Giegar.

A friend today recommend Denon AVR-X1000 over Yamaha RX-V377 in terms of Power, features and audio quality. I tried comparing it but it got too technical for me.
The only feature that Denon AVR-X1000 lacked that I want is the 3.5mm jack connectivity.. rest everything to my knowledge seems to be fine.
So I thought I'll take your advice on this and Buy the AV-R that you suggest.

The price of Yamaha RX-V377 in India is about 31,500INR and Denon AVR-X1000 is about 34,500 INR.

Thanks for patiently helping me all the way...
 
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G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
No problem Shekar.

Here is a comparison between the Yamaha and the Denon: Yamaha RX-V377 vs Denon AVR-X1000 IN-Command. The Denon does appear to have a 3.5mm headphone jack on the front panel.

The Denon is clearly the better AVR. This is to be expected because it's a step or two up the range, not the base model like the Yamaha. Generally, I favour Denon over all other AVR's because they implement a good level of Audyssey MultEQ room correction across their range. This is really the primary determinate of the audio quality of an AVR.

The X1000 runs Audyssey MultEQ XT, not the lower MultEQ as shown in the comparison above. Denon's product page: 5.1 Channel Network AV Receiver with AirPlay.

Shekar, I have no problem recommending the X1000 over the Yamaha. My only concern is that, as a proportion of your total budget, you are overspending on the AVR, perhaps at the expense of speakers and subs. Are you also able to aim higher with your speaker and sub purchase?
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
Hey Shekar, how are you going with all this mate? :)
 
S

Shekar Kutta

Audiophyte
Hi Giegar,

Sorry I wasn’t able to stay in touch through the posts.

Buy the way, I took your suggestions about buying a AV-Receiver and the FR-FL speakers first and later upgrading to complete 5.1 setup.

I’m glad to tell you that I’ve purchased Denon AVR-X1100W receiver and Polk Audio TSx 440T Tower Speakers. It's been about month now and I haven’t really got much time to check it out.

I hear a lot about "Speaker Break-in" Do you have any thoughts / suggestions about it with my current setup?

Thanks!
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
Welcome back Kutta! :D (Kids of the 70's might get that.)

Thanks for reporting back on your purchases Shekar, I think you've done well. The gear is completely different to the thread title! :D

Despite having tower speakers, I recommend you start start planning/saving for a good capable sub as your next step. Spending the the same again for a strong sub would not be out of the question. Your Polks will play with less distortion at higher levels and the Denon will be free from amplifying the power hungry lower bass. If you want some good advice when the time comes to buy, please start a thread in the Subwoofers section and perhaps post a link to it here.

Speaker break-in is something I've never devoted a lot of mental effort to. This because I believe it's something that, in the whole scheme of things affecting audio performance in a room, it makes very little difference. Being an electo-mechanical device, there may be some degree of measured performance change in the speaker as moving parts bed-in etc., but probably very little actual audible change. Probably less than listening from a different seat or the difference between a "good" and "bad" Audyssey run. I suspect that the majority of the speaker break-in occurs during final assembly and testing in the factory. This is a good read if your really interested (if not, don't worry about it): http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction.

In terms of a break-in procedure? Forget about it... just enjoy your system. Position your speakers properly, take care with your Audyssey run (particularly 1st position), check for any silly default settings in the Denon's menu, knock the top off your favourite brew and ROCK OUT!

Good to hear from you again! :)
 
S

Shekar Kutta

Audiophyte
Thanks Giegar,
Now that I have the AMP and the Towers. As per your next suggestion about the Sub, I was thinking about getting Polk Audio PSW110. I'll be sure to keep you posted as soon as I get it..

Again, your suggestions and advice are greatly appreciated :D
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
No problem. :)

Shekar, the brand of sub definitely does not have to match your brand of speakers. If you're a bass lover, I'd encourage you to aim higher than the Polk if you can manage it... even if you have wait a while longer and save. Can you tell us the approximate dimensions of your room? What other brands of subs are readily available in your area?
 
S

Shekar Kutta

Audiophyte
The HT room is 15ft X 8ft (LxW).
The readily available Subwoofer brands and models are
1) Yamaha SW012
2) Yamaha SW030
3) Yamaha SW315
4) Polk PSW110
5) Polk DSW PRO 550
6) ELAC SUB50ESP
7) ELAC SUB 111.2ESP
8) Boston Acoustics ASW250
8) Big America V1020

Polk DSW PRO 550 and Yamaha YST SW315 seem nice... Yamaha sw315 has the option to switch between Movies and Music... I spend 50-50% time on movie and music...
 
D

Danielson

Audiophyte
Wonderful conversation I have stumbled across here.very informative. I am a beginner as far as setting up the home system goes. It starts like this... For years I had a brand new unused pair of dse towers I bought for half price from lord helmet Smith on sale, few years later I bought a pioneer vsx521 (also new half price from jbhifi) to power them as just a stereo format. For months I would have a few drinks and crank up the old stereo, liking it but wondering how I could tweak this baby to get more. I have become addicted but haven't been involved since we were teenagers playing with car audio (subs, components and and crazy big amps).over the last year added a qtx 12" sub and more recently two pioneer aj towers. (nice speaker). I've played with all the settings including speaker distance, crossover, etc etc with this pioneer,but still I crave clearer, sharper better. Like when we used to hear someone's awesome car set-up even at car sound comps.some could take u to another place, and some where just bass freaks. Well now I'm at the place where I'm considering getting a 7.2 pioneer, and more floorstanding (maybe 2 more aj's or better) and another sub. I want the music to take me away like I heard before, at lower volumes too. My ears are big and by far my sharpest sense. I don't know whether this will just create more noise or better sound though. Since I bought the aj's and the sub I also added a cheaper kenwood centre to complete the5.1.and been playing hilltop hoods restrung ( aussie hiphop with orchestra) goes off. Sub was 220. Wondering if a 7.2 with 2 12 pioneer sms3sw will greatly improve. So many things to comment on and ask about but I need to pour a drink for now.
 
A

Aikam

Audiophyte
Hey Giegar,
would you also help me out a little bit..
My room is 15 x 9 feet and recently purchased the yamaha 577, i am looking for speakers and was getting 2 year old jamo s626 for around 50k, are they good enough and would they be able to work properly with the yamaha?
Also What do think about the audio pro avant 5.0?

Thanks
 
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