Yamaha av receiver pre out is too low for svs sb200 sub

[Andrein]

Hello.

I just bought 5.1 system. Trying to calibrate it. All is fine except subs. The signal they get from my a860 receiver seems to be too low. I ran eq and receiver suggested -9.5db for my 2 subs. When played test tones hardly could hear subs. Even with +7db the level is about 8-10db less then other speakers. Gain on subs is 50%. I enabled auto standby mode and sometimes when music is not loud <30db subs can go sleep.

Thinking if my config is wrong somewhere or should i buy preamp for subs to make input signal a bit stronger. Forget to mention. All my speakers except mains are set as small. Main speakers are proac towers with freq response 25-30k hz.

Did i miss something or should i go for stereo preamp? Any suggestions for models < 500$?

Thank you,
Andrei.

 

[lovinthehd]

You're probably expecting too much output is my guess. If your avr is setting your subs to -9.5dB then your pre-out level is more than fine (in that your avr needs to turn down the level due to the gain setting on your sub; if you lower the gain on the sub then the avr would need to turn down the level less). I aim at putting my sub levels into the negative to allow some room for boosting the sub level and minimize the chance of clipping the signal....

ps Your version of YPAO may not be doing much to eq the subs either. How did you choose the subs' location? Placement is important....

 

[Andrein]

With -9db test tones are not audible at all.

 

[Andrein]

I wanted to double check eq results and meter showed about 15db diff from with speakers

 

[lovinthehd]

Well then perhaps YPAO isn't functioning correctly......are you just going to set the levels manually with the meter now?

ps I still wouldn't add a line level booster as yet, since you're only at 50% gain on the sub....have you tried SVS for help?

 

[Andrein]

Well, i put +7.5db as i dont trust eq now. Sounds good. Just adds extra color to my proacs bass. But at low volume subs go sleep which kind of indicates too low input volume. There other people compaining on tamaha svs combinstion stating that subs level is too los. But i could not find any answer yet...

Btw both subs behave same way. So dont think there is a defecg with subs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, i put +7.5db as i dont trust eq now. Sounds good. Just adds extra color to my proacs bass. But at low volume subs go sleep which kind of indicates too low input volume. There other people compaining on tamaha svs combinstion stating that subs level is too los. But i could not find any answer yet...

Btw both subs behave same way. So dont think there is a defecg with subs.

Are the test tones matched at the 7.5+ setting for the sub with all the other speakers?

Yep, auto standby going off does appear to be due to a low signal, so raise the gain (edit: i.e. level in the avr) more perhaps.

Checking basics....speakers are set to small? What are your crossover settings?

 

[Andrein]

No. Even with +7.5 the level of subs is not quite the same as other speakers but at least the overal sound became richer. Probably still not 100% of potential.

Main towers are set as large but their response starts from 25hz and sensitivity is 91db. Dont want to waste this. Other speakers are small with crossover 80hz.

Svs just replied asking to reduce level in avr to be in negative area and compensate with sub gain. Pretty sure i tried this with no luck. But will try again.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd set your mains to small if you're using a sub, especially two PB2000s, they are likely much more capable in that range than your speakers (what are they?). You're not wasting anything by setting them to small in any case.

ps with the level I meant with the spl meter at your listening seat with the test tones matching the other speakers.

 

[cel4145]

Agreed. Many times, the sub is the better tool for producing low bass. Try setting your crossover to 60 or 80hz.

 

[lovinthehd]

What are you using for test material of results? Movies? Music?

 

[Andrein]

Music and receiver test tones

 

[Andrein]

My main speakers are ProAc 148. 25-30000hz, sentitivity 91db. Great speakers produce nice bass themselves. I bought subs just to make bass a bit more pronounced.

 

[everettT]

ProAc website states down to 25hz but doesn't give it as a 3db. That could be the f10. Set your speakers to small as the others have mentioned and a crossover of 60/80hz and the subs will do what they are supposed to do. I don't know of any speaker with two 6.5" drivers that reach to 25hz +- 3db. Why make those two drivers do the work of a 12" sub?

 

[Andrein]

I will try to set them to small. But proac really produce deep and fast bass without any boom effect. That is why i chose them. Even proac d48 which cost 6-7k pounds have 2 6.5 drivers. Initially i even thought to not buy subs. Abyway going to order a mic to see what i really have. I had prev other speakers 25-31000 +-3db with 10 inch bass drivers. And proac gives same level of bass as those speakers)))

Also i set my av receiver to 6ohm mode month ago. I know you guys dont recommend this. But did this because with default 8ohm config i had flowing sound. Up and down. Not sure if i need to try 8ohm again. Maybe something else was wrong with my config at the time.

 

[everettT]

Again no two 6.5" drivers will play as effective as the 12" sub. They may have great bass but the SVS is going to be better. You can do what you like but the only way for your sub to work is to set your speakers to small, which is what we all do if we have subs. The advice given by the people here is thru experience and knowledge

I will try to set them to small. But proac really produce deep and fast bass without any boom effect. That is why i chose them. Even proac d48 which cost 6-7k pounds have 2 6.5 drivers. Initially i even thought to not buy subs. Abyway going to order a mic to see what i really have. I had prev other speakers 25-31000 +-3db with 10 inch bass drivers. And proac gives same level of bass as those speakers)))

Also i set my av receiver to 6ohm mode month ago. I know you guys dont recommend this. But did this because with default 8ohm config i had flowing sound. Up and down. Not sure if i need to try 8ohm again. Maybe something else was wrong with my config at the time.

 

[Andrein]

As i said i will try that. If that will sound better then if course i will use this configuration. For me the main thing now is to sort out the issue with subs level comparing to other speakers.

Also what would you suggest on 6/8ohm switch. Could my subs low input level be related to that?

 

[everettT]

As i said i will try that. If that will sound better then if course i will use this configuration. For me the main thing now is to sort out the issue with subs level comparing to other speakers.

Also what would you suggest on 6/8ohm switch. Could my subs low input level be related to that?

Your reading to much into the levels, just set the speakers to small and listen. The purpose of the levels is to get all speakers to play at the same level at the listening position. Keep the original settings and start from there, as SVS said adjust the gain on the sub if needed in small increments

 

[Andrein]

Sounds promissing. Will try all that as soon as i get home. Will update on results after. Hopefully i wont need to by stereo preamp to make avr love subs

 

[lovinthehd]

Testing with music when you've set your mains to large isn't going to tell you much about your sub, maybe movies that have LFE content (.1) would be better, or are you using multi-ch music? The test tones dB level can be deceiving in the bass range, too due to the way we hear (look up Fletcher Munson for example).

Your Proacs look nice, but my mains are larger drivers than yours and I still set them to small so I can use my superior subs for that range. That's what the subs are for, few "full range" speakers can do what a good sub can, let alone be properly positioned for best response of sub Schroeder (roughly below 200hz) frequencies in your room. There's only so much bass small drivers like a 6.5" can do....