Which to upgrade...my speakers or receiver???

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Dyceman

Audiophyte
Greetings all...I have a pair of Mirage FRx 7 and a Marantz sr5002 surround receiver. I bought the receiver with the intention of doing the surround thing but never did. While at a friend's house recently he played the most spectacular sounding music from a pair of Morrison Audio speakers and a tube amp/pre amp. I realize I can't replicate that without making a major investment but I want to take the first step. Would it make more sense for me to upgrade my Mirage speakers or upgrade my receiver, perhaps separates? I have no interest in lots of bells and whistles or surround. I'm a simple guy...female vocalists, jazz and lots of classical/chamber music with a pinch of house music...I like it loud but not earth shattering. For me it's all about the sound quality. My budget for the next purchase, be it separates/receiver or speakers, is approx. $2500. The room is 15' x 15'. Suggestions on brands would be helpful too. Many thanks...I welcome and appreciate your feedback.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
If great music is your goal, I would not touch your receiver, but few other things.

First of all, if your room is really square that is a big issue for any speakers - the bass will always sound muddy no matter how much you invest in speakers/electronics
Imo you should start by doing acoustic room treatments. Start it by visiting a specialist web site online calculator here:
Free Online Room Acoustics Analysis

After that done, consider speakers next:
If you desire to have surround sound you are very highly recommended to have center tune matching to mains and usually the only way to do it is to get center from same brand/series.
In your case FRx-Center which is no longer made since 2001 and will have harder to find on the used market.

You might have to sell/gift/reuse your mains for something else and get whole new 5.1 speakers. The good news is only 3 front must match, the surrounds don't,
In fact you could have your Mirage FRx-Seven towers for surround speakers

There are many good brands which offer in home trials - this is only good way to see if you like their sound reproduction.
At $2.5k you have plenty of options here are some of best options:

Ascend Acoustics
Aperion Audio
EMPTek
Salk Sound

For surround music ideal setup is to get 5 identical speakers. I think Ascend's SE340's fit the bill nicely
 
D

Dyceman

Audiophyte
Hello Bored SysAdmin...good of you to take the time to reply. In reading over my posting, I realized it may be a little misleading. All I want is good sound from two speakers....good 'ol stereo sound and something pushing them, whether that's my current Marantz sr5002 and new speakers or new components pushing my Mirage FRx Sevens. Which do I upgrade first...? Many thanks again.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
Speaker upgrade would make the greatest difference by far. Your budget puts you right smack in line with some superb speakers. A good place to start your speaker auditions would be Philharmonic. Audition as many different speakers as you can, as they are by far the most critical decision you'll have to make.

Your friend was using a tube amp, which complicates matters. At your friends home what your heard was a confluence of factors: his speakers, his room acoustics, and any processing effect of the tube amp. Why is this complicated? Speakers and tube amps should be considered together as a system. Tube amps generally have high output impedance, which results in frequency response that tends to follow the impedance curve of the speaker. Because of this, each and every speaker will produce very specific frequency response unique to that particular pairing. Tube amps also generally have relatively large amounts of distortion, and this too has an effect on musical tone coloration. The icing on the tube cake is the value proposition, which is often very, very poor. I can suggest a few that are reasonably good value propositions, if you really want to go there.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
If I were you I would buy these on sale while they last.. probably wont be to the end of the day, I bought one and I know 2 others that bought them last night... everything else is about sold out...
PRE-1 Preamplifier | Sherbourn Technologies

then for an amplifier I would go with..
XPA-2 | 300W x 2 | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifier

that puts you at $1079

then I would buy these Sierra-1 pair, piano black (B-STOCK): Ascend Direct
and this SB12-NSD - SVS thats rite around $2500 and will sound fantastic....

To finish it I would add a pair of http://www.amazon.com/FMOD-Crossover-Pair-High-Pass/dp/B0006N41KG/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1375882090&sr=8-5&keywords=fmods, then a couple rca splitters and cables to hook in the sub, and some speaker cables all of which should be under $100... then maybe some stands Amazon.com : SANUS SYSTEMS SF-30B Steel Speaker Stand : Electronics

then keep your avr and mirage speakers for that surround sound you were going to build, and use this for a designated 2.1 music system...

I think you would be hard pressed to build better for the money, and it would be your friend on here asking how to get his system to sound as good as his frinds $2500 system.....


If you don't like that idea, and just want 2 speakers and no sub, grab a pair of ascend sierra towers {with the upgrade puts you rite around $2500 run them uncrossed with your avr until you find a preamp and amps you like.... I don't like running an avr for music only, it just complicates everything and puts a lot more in the audio path that is not needed

I have heard everything I recommended and own a few of the components myself including the sierra 1's and the amplifier (mine is last years model, but I heard the new one at the Boston Emotiva get together and its great), and I bought that preamp but wont have it for a week or so, that combo for around $2500 would be hard to beat for twice the budget...
 
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markw

Audioholic Overlord
Replace your speakers with ones you like, but audition them with two channel music you're familiar with before purchasing. 80 clean watts can go pretty far, particularly considering your friend had tubes, which are generally lower powered than SS devices.

Also, be aware that your room and speaker placement can have a lot of impact on your overall enjoyment.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Upgrading the speakers and subwoofer and treating the room will give you the most bang for your $2500. What I would not do is spend your limited funds on tube amps or separates. Tubes are a bad idea for all of the reasons listed above and should you decide that you need more power then an AV receiver (AVR) will usually provide better room correction than more expensive separates. The list of speakers that BSA provided is excellent and I'm particularly fond of Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 with the NrT tweeter option (~$1200/pr).

On the other hand I'm less fond of small sealed subwoofers than some others simply because while they have a very tight sound with-in their inherent limitations, they tend to run out of steam and either roll off and/or compress low bass as you turn up the volume in all but very small rooms. I'd go with a ported 12" sub like an SVS PC12-NSD cylinder sub instead, but that's just my preference and if you're in an apartment then you may not be able to turn it up enough to exceed the limits of a 12" sealed sub. Either way that's roughly $1950 with shipping for very good speakers and a capable subwoofer.

While it might be fun to replace your receiver with a new more powerful AVR it's probably unnecessary in a room that size, and the money likely better spent on room treatments. BSA is 100% correct about the problems with square rooms and room reflections and well placed acoustic panels can make a huge difference in how a system sounds, in fact it might be the best place to start your project rather than throwing money at new gear. Room treatments made a huge difference in my rooms and can be tastefully applied so that they look great.
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Hello Bored SysAdmin...good of you to take the time to reply. In reading over my posting, I realized it may be a little misleading. All I want is good sound from two speakers....good 'ol stereo sound and something pushing them, whether that's my current Marantz sr5002 and new speakers or new components pushing my Mirage FRx Sevens. Which do I upgrade first...? Many thanks again.
Like me and other already said , keep the receiver. Replacing it will NOT affect the sound quality.

Even for two channel listening acoustic room treatments are as important as for surround sound. They could bring massive improvements without huge investments.
For stereo speakers only I would consider :
(my first choice) Philharmonitor - Monitors~Philharmonic Audio
above mentioned Ascend Sierra-1
Aperion Verus Grand Bookshelf
Salk SongSurround I

For sub: another good option is POWER SOUND AUDIO — XS15 Home Audio Subwoofer
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
There are a lot of great choices for two channel systems in your budget. I will just mention two possibilities which I think would be terrific. Like as has been said above, keep the receiver.

One great choice:
Soundfield Audio Monitor 2 pair, $1600
Dayton dual woofer sub kit, $900 shipped roughly

The Soundfields have a terrific reputation, and great measurements to back it up. The guy who makes them knows what he is doing, and he isn't selling BS. The Dayton kit has two very good drivers and a heavy duty cabinet and so should sound terrific, low distortion, low compression, very tight bass, and high output. It is very easy to assemble, all you need is a screwdriver, some glue, and an hour of assembly time. The only drawback it is size and weight, but I would guess the sheer performance can't be beat for the money.

Another great option:

KEF R100 pair, $1200
Hsu VTF2 mk4 pair, $1200

The KEFs are very highly regarded, and have excellent measurements to back them up. The Hsus are great as well, two of them will smooth out the frequency response and will go a long way to cut down on boomy or sloppy bass if you take a bit of care to set them up correctly. They are loaded with some good drivers and also have a few different ways you can shape the bass sound. They are a bit large though, and if their size is a a problem, you might look at a couple of these sealed 12" kits from parts express. Again, those kits are very easy to assemble and are using very good drivers, although not quite as good as the ones used in the dual driver kit mentioned above. Still, I think those will be higher performers than the sealed 12"s you get from SVS and Emotiva.
 
D

Dyceman

Audiophyte
Thank you Ski2xblack. You know your stuff! I hear the whole tube thing is a deep dark well...I don't think I want to go there. Great advice..Thank you for taking the time to give me your thoughts, I do appreciate it.
 
D

Dyceman

Audiophyte
Excellent feedback ImcLoud. Thank you. I'll look into those products. Thank you!
 
D

Dyceman

Audiophyte
Thank you all for your feedback....totally blown away with the level of knowledge here. I'm a quick learner but, I'd better get started. Gonna research all the product you've suggested, listen to speakers...listen...listen..listen...and will definitely look into acoustic room treatments. Thank you again.
 
tmurnin

tmurnin

Full Audioholic
One other thing I would recommend is do this a step at a time. I would start with new L/R speakers. See how that sounds, what you like, what you think is missing, etc. Then guide your future purchases accordingly. You may find that you want a sub, and you may also find that the type of music you listen to is handled perfectly by the speakers without a sub. Don't just buy stuff because someone says it's a good idea. Not that a subwoofer/room correction/etc are bad ideas - they arent - but take a pause between each step and see how that step affects the sound quality you're looking for before moving on to the next step.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
That pre1 is sold out now, I knew that was coming but you can substitue either a usp1 or xda2 {depending on what you are using for sources} in its place from emotiva for a little more money..
 

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