which dac and any other suggestions

T

Troy Dunnagan

Audiophyte
First time poster here. I am looking for advice to increase the sound quality of my existing system. I have a Marantz SR7009 being used as a pre-amp powered by Emotiva's XPA-5, 2 revel m22 bookshelf speakers serving as my L & R, revel c52 center speakers and 2 revel timber matched C563 in ceiling rear surrounds. I mainly listen to music and switch between L &R stereo only and sometimes "all stereo" or matrix through all speakers. We do watch movies but seem happy with our home theater experience thus far although always open to suggestions. We mostly listen to music through a Sonos connect but we also do have an Orbit turntable. I know that the turntable will one day need to be upgraded to maybe a Rega RP3 or similar. I am in the process of adding two SVS SB12-nsd subs to the mix. Our room is large at 20x30x10 and I hope these subs will make some sort of impact. We also use an Apple TV. Now for my question.

I am looking to increase the sound quality of my Sonos driven music. I spoke to an audiophile (owner of Echo audio in Seattle) and he suggested a dac. In particular, because he knows I'm cheap haha!, he suggested the California Labs Sigma ii, Enlightened Audio Designs DSP-7000 mkiii, and some Krell dacs (stealth and ??) that I have never seen listed for sale. I missed an opportunity on both the Cal Labs and the EAD and I'm kicking myself. With ALL this being said, what other dacs should I consider? My budget is $750 or less and I would prefer $400 or less. Old vs new? Tube? NOS? DSD? Yadda yadda. I am looking for an increased sound stage and dynamic range. If I get more clarity and warmth then yee haw!

I appreciate all of your input in advance. Thanks for letting this first timer ramble.

Btw, I listen to mostly indie rock but I seriously dive into ALL types of music and yes I like it loud.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think your audiophile friend is more an audiophool looking to lighten your pockets. Your dac in your avr is quite up to the task. Get better/more to your liking speakers if you want to change audio sound qualities (or look at how they react with your room/listening space, your room is a big part of the equation) would be my suggestion. The two small sealed subs in 6000 cuft may be on the light side. Forget the turntable for improved audio, improving on the Orbit will be marginal unless you're just into vintage stuff (and that's from a guy who has a much better tt for a long time). Can't speak for Sonos but their electronics should be adequate, what is the source of your "Sonos-driven" music?

IMHO, YMMV, etc
 
P

pewternhrata

Audioholic Chief
When it comes to indie rock, I find it difficult to find good recordings. Most indie is low budget. I listen to a ton of conor oberst/bright eyes, some of his stuff sounds terrible which is a shame because I find him extremely talented. however, with his endless amount of music I can always find something that has a good recording. With your setup id say that's the biggest setback, poor recordings.
When I'm 'disappointed' with my playback I usually play through a few songs that I know have good recordings.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
First time poster here. I am looking for advice to increase the sound quality of my existing system. I have a Marantz SR7009 being used as a pre-amp powered by Emotiva's XPA-5, 2 revel m22 bookshelf speakers serving as my L & R, revel c52 center speakers and 2 revel timber matched C563 in ceiling rear surrounds. I mainly listen to music and switch between L &R stereo only and sometimes "all stereo" or matrix through all speakers. We do watch movies but seem happy with our home theater experience thus far although always open to suggestions. We mostly listen to music through a Sonos connect but we also do have an Orbit turntable. I know that the turntable will one day need to be upgraded to maybe a Rega RP3 or similar. I am in the process of adding two SVS SB12-nsd subs to the mix. Our room is large at 20x30x10 and I hope these subs will make some sort of impact. We also use an Apple TV. Now for my question.

I am looking to increase the sound quality of my Sonos driven music. I spoke to an audiophile (owner of Echo audio in Seattle) and he suggested a dac. In particular, because he knows I'm cheap haha!, he suggested the California Labs Sigma ii, Enlightened Audio Designs DSP-7000 mkiii, and some Krell sacs that I have never seen listed for sale. I missed an opportunity on both the Cal Labs and the EAD and I'm kicking myself. With ALL this being said, what other dacs should I consider? My budget is $750 or less and I would prefer $400 or less. Old vs new? Tube? NOS? DSD? Yadda yadda. I am looking for an increased sound stage and dynamic range. If I get more clarity and warmth then yer haw!

I appreciate all of your input in advance. Thanks for letting this first timer ramble.

Btw, I listen to mostly indie rock but I seriously dive into ALL types of music and yes I like it loud.
Hi! You already have a DAC, it's in the Marantz. $750 is an extraordinary amount to spend for what is generally considered to be a placebo.

I would look at how the front 3 speakers are placed, and how that corresponds to your listening position(s). That should cover your sense of envelopment and apparent source width. That's free!

Next is subwoofer tuning. There's 3 options: 1) run audyssey until you are satisfied, 2) buy more subs 3) learn how to manipulate your subs through DSP since, quite literally, the room is in control of what and when you are able to hear frequencies below 200 hz.

Dynamic range. You have a big room that may be exceeding the limits of what 2way bookshelf speakers can do. But first you should try to insulate the room from exterior sound as well as possible, this includes fans and HVAC. Depending on your decor and spousal approval, you will want to explore acoustic diffusors. A company I've used before is GIK Acoustics I linked straight to diffusion products. Since this might be a common area, try the the 'combination' semi cylinder, as they are a bit more discreet, and provide some absorption in a relatively small package. If the room is all wood flooring, you'll need a carpet covering slightly past the spot on the floor that will 'bounce' an extra reflection at you - 30-45deg off axis of the tweeter, where that meets the floor figure at least a 90deg+ angle of incidence to the ears.

And thats really just the start. Sound reproduction is a complex subject but the amount you're willing to learn and experiment can save you a ton of money. That is also the title of a book with a revised 3rd edition coming out in a couple weeks if you really want to get serious!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
The space my subs see is around the same as yours. I have two 15" subs and they do well. I wouldn't want any less tho.

As has been said, a dac will offer very little, if any improvement. The dac in the SR7011 is already a very good one. The suggestions on positioning are very good advice. I felt like I got a new system once I got my speaker positions dialed in. It really does make a big difference.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
First time poster here.
I am looking to increase the sound quality of my Sonos driven music. I spoke to an audiophile (owner of Echo audio in Seattle) and he suggested a dac..
Troy,
Welcome to the AH forum. I hope you have a great time here and a great learning experience. For a seemingly simple hobby, there is a lot to learn to "improve your audio" as you put it. Some of the best improvements involve no purchases, just proper placement, tuning and alignment.

Your post contains the line "I spoke to an audiophile and he suggested............". That made me smile. What gave me hope was you came to a knowledgeable group BEFORE you went out and made a purchase that will likely net you zero audible improvement.

There are a number of knowledgeable and talented members here. Some are quite gruff, but they mean well and can be extremely helpful. Nonsense, like DACS make a big audible difference, isn't tolerated here and nonsense gets called out for what it is. If you can get passed some of the very plain comments, there is a ton to learn. I have absolutely transformed my audio experience since coming here and taking many of the suggestions made. Some of the most blunt and to the point comments have really made a difference.

I'll take those over sugar coated nonsense anyday.

Again, welcome and have fun
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I had the same experience. I made an account because I thought I had a badass system and learnt otherwise, lol. Not just because someone told me so. I followed (most of) advice given to me here and I now have the best sounding system I've heard in anyone's house.

I was hell bent on getting an amp or a bigger receiver. I thought that would be just the nudge I needed for audio bliss. No. It's all in the speakers and the room (and/or room correcting software). In one instance just spreading my front speakers further apart and toeing them in made me feel like I bought a whole new system. Placement makes a big difference and I learned that by testing it.

It's all about putting your dollars where it counts, and after your room, speakers have the single biggest impact on sound quality, imo. Left to my own devices I'd have an avr capable of driving anything, and the same sound quality. I'm happy I came here and took advice. We really do have best interests at heart and want to see you come away with a great system.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
@Bucknekked made me wonder if I'd been too rough on the beave's friend (Kurt Doslu apparently). Then I looked around their website and no, I don't think so. Looked at the cable selection and this linked review for the $1200 cables to help make up my mind, although they supposedly are made by hand by Jennifer....but I know what I'd rather have Jennifer do with her hands for me as an alternative to buying her cables, since it amounts to the same thing really :)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...

I am looking to increase the sound quality of my Sonos driven music.
In that case get high quality music source, better speakers and a better acoustic space where you listen, not DACs.
I spoke to an audiophile (owner of Echo audio in Seattle) and he suggested a dac. .... and yes I like it loud.
With friends like that, who needs enemies. ;)

Loud music needs a quality speaker that will perform well up to its limits. And enough power to drive the speakers, not dacs.
 
Littlefoott

Littlefoott

Audioholic Intern
the detrails from the 7009 say
Multiple Audio File Formats Supported including HD Audio

The SR7009 supports a wide range of audio file types, including MP3, WAV, AAC, WMA and AIFF, and it also supports high definition audio tracks including FLAC 24 bit/192 kHz, DSD and ALAC formats, and includes gapless playback capability with many file types for uninterrupted listening enjoyment.

hook up a computer via hdmi and try some sample sources of these file formats.
I think you will be surprised at the capability of your built in dac on the marantz

if you have a tidal hifi account the MQA masters will unfold to 24 bit/192 kHz with their desktop application (if the source is that high )
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
@Bucknekked made me wonder if I'd been too rough on the beave's friend (Kurt Doslu apparently).
lovinthehd:
Your post reminded me of the first words uttered on TV about porn.
Barbara Billingsly (the mom) said to Hugh Beaumont (the father) "weren't you a little hard on the beaver tonight?" (Leave it to Beaver circa 1960)

From there the whole world of TV has gone down the toilet.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
lovinthehd:
Your post reminded me of the first words uttered on TV about porn.
Barbara Billingsly (the mom) said to Hugh Beaumont (the father) "weren't you a little hard on the beaver tonight?" (Leave it to Beaver circa 1960)

From there the whole world of TV has gone down the toilet.
I've always wondered if they cracked up after sharing those lines :)
 

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