Whats the deal with Axiom?

Discussion in 'Loudspeakers' started by Rowdy S13, Feb 15, 2013.

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  1. Rowdy S13 Audioholic Chief

    Rowdy S13
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    So I have been starting to look for new speakers, and noticed that there is a lot of bad talk about Axiom here. I always thought they were a decent ID brand. I like the aesthetics of thier product (all I can really say since I have never heard them), and the price seems reasonable for what you get (on paper). However once I tried searching here for some info on them (something I do on every speaker I look at) it seemed to be mostly negative. With that said I couldn't really tell what the problem was/is with them? It seems to be a company issue, not directly a specific product. Just looking for some insight, give it to me straight!


    Thanks,
    Sean
  2. Steve81 Audioholics 5-O

    Steve81
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  3. ratm Audioholic

    ratm
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    I have never heard an Axiom speaker before. That said, there are several well respected members on here and AVS who have extensive backrounds in sound engineering and speaker build 101 (if you will) who have crushed their design.
    ratm,
  4. trnqk7 Full Audioholic

    trnqk7
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    I have a friend with original M60v1's. They are pretty nice-especially for the price. I like my speakers better (why wouldn't I?) but they were ~2x as expensive for the fronts. I won't say that Axiom's are amazing or bad-but I would say that they will be better than what most people have that don't populate this website or one's like it. You could definitely be happy with Axioms.
  5. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
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    I've heard some of their older speakers in my own system. I felt they were good not great. Way back when, they were a better value because they cost quite a bit less than they do now. IMO, they used to be better than the average speaker on the market, but that has likely changed.
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  6. Greg Campbell Audiophyte

    Greg Campbell
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    I've got M80s and am very satisfied. Have had them for over 3 years. Also have QS8s for the back surround. I like them.

    From what I've seen fanboys are always arguing one way or the other. If you disagree they get upset and start trashing the other guys. For the price, at the time, they were a very good deal.

    Before buying any speaker, I do highly recommend you listen to them before buying. I heard Axioms at a friends house, but also listened to others. Speakers sound different to different people.
  7. gtpsuper24 Full Audioholic

    gtpsuper24
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    They don't offer the level of standard options most IDs and B&Ms do for the same price or price range. The stuff is just very poor quality compared to whats being offered now. Most companys are offering cast baskets drivers, beefy cabinets with proper bracing, higher quality xover components, piano gloss finishes and dual binding posts. All in speakers priced similar.

    Axiom will charge you $40 for a $3 dollar Parts Express dual binding post option, while just about every other manufacturer offers it as standard equipment especially at the M80s price range of $1500. A company that writes up newsletters stating you don't need a braced cabinet or high quality drivers or high quality xovers but yet charges the same as other companys that do shouldn't be considered at all.

    They just throw a bunch of cheap Chinese drivers in a cabinet and then say they did years of research to come to that design. When it takes all but a few minutes for real speaker designers to say it goes against all general knowledge, and can instantly point out the flaws.
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  8. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
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    I would guess that stems from the fact that my buddy said they started as a cabinet maker and then branched out into doing their own speakers. Back then, they were a very good value but were basically decent cabinets with somewhat cheapish drivers and simple x-overs. At this point, I'd have to say they let all that buzz they generated early on go to their head a bit.
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  9. gtpsuper24 Full Audioholic

    gtpsuper24
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    Yep I agree. They are still stuck in 2005. When a company believes they do no wrong and that anyone that has a legitimate concern is just trolling or is just a hater, will never change. Ian and the gang are out to make huge profits first and proper design second. Cool looking speakers sell like the VP150 and M80s but doesn't mean they are well designed top of the class speakers.

    Instead of fixing the issues, they just dig their heels in and say we are just a bunch of haters and snakeoil loving audiofools. I made the suggestion a few years ago on the Axiom board that the VP150 could be improved off axis wise by using a pair of stacked truncated frame tweeters in the center and a pair of woofers on each side. The M80 could be improved by doing the same but in a MTTM combo using truncated frames. Shot down both times and called names and they *****ed up a storm, so I see no hope for Axiom ever regaining the popularity or respect they once had.
  10. Rowdy S13 Audioholic Chief

    Rowdy S13
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    Hmmm interesting. Well I guess they are off the list :)

    Sean
  11. exlabdriver Guest

    exlabdriver
    Hi Sean:

    I would like to offer a counter point - please hear me out before you dismiss them outright. Axiom has been building quality speakers for 30 years & has thousands of satisfied customers world wide. They are well known in the industry for providing excellent, prompt & friendly customer service. The Chief Engineer/CEO was not a cabinet maker - he is an audio engineer who designs speakers & audio equipment & has done so since the beginning. Some of his stuff is mildly unconventional but always pragmatic to cut costs to the customer while still providing decent performance. I like his 'out-of-the box' thinking & designs; however, this sometimes raises the hackles of other 'experts'. Along with some negativity, there are reams of positive reviews on the net & I believe that you can even find some here at AH.

    I have 3 current Axiom setups - 2 audio only (1 with a tube amp) & 1 HT throughout my house that sound just fine - very competitive within their price range despite all of the needless negativity that you have already encountered. They have provided me with countless hours of pure enjoyment over 20 years along with many others out there - the silent majority of users.

    I'll let gtp from above reinforce my comments with a few randomly picked excerpts from his many posts on the net over the last couple of years when he ran Axioms:

    - I've been a Axiom owner since 2008 and couldn't be happier with my purchase and I even plan on upgrading to M80s and the VP180.

    - I by the way love my Axiom M22s and Vp150

    - I think Axioms are great speakers, but I would skip the sub just order the pair of M60s, VP 150 and the QS8s

    - I really like Axioms, I could listen to them all day without "earbleeding" or Headaches like some say on here.

    - I own an Axiom 5.0 system and I couldn't be happier, very neutral speakers,

    Anyway, I'm sure that you get the gist. I have tons more but I don't want to bore you.

    As with any product, Axioms aren't for everyone but it might behoove you head over to Axiom's site & have a look around, especially the forum section - mostly a friendly place, ha!!.

    Cheers

    TAM
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  12. JerryLove Audioholic Samurai

    JerryLove
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    This would be consistant with the official page: Corporate Information - Axiom Audio

    The one quite I can date discusses a purchase 5 years ago.

    Re-read the thread. Most people have said something like "Axiom puts out a good speaker, excellent several years back, but since surpassed".

    You'd do better, I think, to link to the review: Face-Off III: Axiom Audio M22ti — Reviews and News from Audioholics
  13. gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator

    gene
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    My god time flies. That review is over 11 years old! It was a fun shootout.
    gene,
  14. gtpsuper24 Full Audioholic

    gtpsuper24
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    Wow Ex-Lab must be in need of some Axiom bucks :p just signed up to try and convice the OP not to listen to us and to buy Axiom.

    Those raving opinions of my was from 2008 early 2009 its now 2013 so I've had more than enough time to develop an opinion on Axiom stuff. It wasn't like I woke up one day and said "Damn I hate these speakers, i'm going to trash them every chance I get" It was made from years of listening and about a month of listening to other speakers IN HOME and also at several retailers around Ohio. From B&W, Paradigm, Golden Ear, Martin Logan, Def Tech ect... Plus HSU bookshelfs, Aperions, Arx, and some more.


    The Axiom guys won't give any other brands the time of day or consideration and they almost feel like other ID brands are there sworn enemy. Its there loss though because the ID industry have come along way since Axiom started producing its current speakers 10 years ago. Hell even the preview artitlce that AH wrote previewing the EP500 and EP600 was 2004-2005 that again is coming up on 10 years but yet no improves to them other than magnetic grills and playing around with DSP code. Now look at what other IDs have done in that time frame.
  15. Rowdy S13 Audioholic Chief

    Rowdy S13
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    Well I wouldn't say they are complete ****, but I agree with what a lot of people are saying. It seems like they are a little behind others in the price range. Of course this isn't based on my actual experience, but there seems to be plenty of people with the same info. I feel like with everything I have been reading that my current speakers would be similar or better than the Axioms.

    Sean
  16. gtpsuper24 Full Audioholic

    gtpsuper24
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    Going from you Canton LE170s to Axioms would not be an upgrade might even be a down grade. Canton are very nice well made speakers.
  17. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
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    I said the company, not the CEO, and perhaps it was simply that they are large enough to provide cabinets for other speaker manufacturers. Audio engineer does not by right automatically mean great speaker designer. There are plenty of people out there designing speakers and not all of them suit my tastes. These designers impart their listening preferences into their speakers, so essentially you are getting what THEY like, and in this case, I don't like them enough to give them a full recommendation. When they came out and I first heard them I did often recommend them because they were a great value for what you got, but not so much today. Are they good speakers? Sure, nobody is saying they aren't, but they also moved up to a price bracket that is EXTREMELY competitive and full of great choices.
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  18. exlabdriver Guest

    exlabdriver
    The original building was a cabinet making business I believe. The CEO bought the building & started manufacturing speakers as a completely separate entity when the previous business had already closed.

    As for: "Are they good speakers? Sure, nobody is saying they aren't, but they also moved up to a price bracket that is EXTREMELY competitive and full of great choices".

    I fully agree with the amount of great choices part; however, 'nobody is saying that they aren't' just doesn't wash - it's everywhere perpetrated by a vocal few with a wide reach.

    BTW, despite accusations of being stuck in the last century, Axiom has recently designed & produced the large LFR speakers (talk about thinking outside-the-box) that have been favourably received by the few who have them. I demo'ed them at the factory (nice & smooth sound signature) but they aren't for me due to their large size & equally large price tag. They also designed & built in-house an accompanying set of powerful, high quality amps - again not for me. Recently Axiom requested customer/public input on what users would like to see in a sub & got a good response back. They took all of that info & are now busily designing a new line of subs. Unfortunately, from what I've recently experienced, it will be an uphill battle to get any kind of acceptance here even if they prove to be the best on the planet (which of course they won't be because there is no such thing).

    As I've told you before, GTP, I get no breaks from Axiom - none whatsoever. No Axiom Bucks nor freebees, don't expect any nor do I want want any It's doubtful that you would get that. As President OB said on '60 Minutes' the other night, his term "incorrigible" comes to mind...

    TAM
  19. lsiberian Audioholic Overlord

    lsiberian
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    Speaker quality comes down to effort more than preference IMO. For example SVS is always refining their products, always improving their speakers. Salk does the same. Axiom doesn't. Engineering isn't cheap. I don't blame them for not changing their designs if they make a profit. That's the goal of business, but the difference between SVS and Axiom is clear in my mind and the GAP has widened. Even cheap drivers can sound fairly good given a solid crossover, but will I take the time to dial it in? Salk, SVS, JTR and others take the time to improve and refine their products.

    If you are looking for great speakers get Salks. Trust me they are that good. Even the Monkey saved up for some. Right now I think they offer the best value. Unless you are low budget. In that case get the Pioneer set from Andrew Jones.
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  20. MinusTheBear Audioholic Ninja

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    This is just my opinion. I don't think that is accurate that Axiom sits around all day and twiddles their thumbs and tries not to improve their current products or create new products. They have introduced the EP800, Andrew Welker designed digital amps, and LFR speakers in recent years. Apparently they are introducing the thought of coming out with improved subwoofer designs with dual opposing drivers.

    I think the main issue stems from the fact they rely too much on listening tests (blind) from too small of a sample from an older demographic (that might be prone to hearing loss) to judge final say in product development.

    IMO Andrew Welker (formerly of API) is the best thing to happen to Axiom. Just let him do his thing...great products will evolve...
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
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