Weight of A/V Receivers

Tool34

Tool34

Audioholic Intern
Hey Guys-

I have been reading articles about weight of A/V receivers. Gene has also mentioned this in one of his YouTube videos. To the ones who could shed some light on this and offer me some info, I would really appreciate it. I have been debating on Pioneer and Denon models. I have compared two models that have the same features that I am looking for. However, the Pioneer model is 3.5lbs heavier than the Denon. Makes me think that the Pioneer is more bulked up and a better option for me. Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks guys!

Chad
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Generally speaking, it can mean a bigger power supply, which can affect real world performance. In practice, I would not use that as one of my main reasons for picking one AVR over another unless that difference was huge In this case, I'd still take Denon over Pioneer every time.

Better option for what? The difference in power is likely negligible at best.
 
Tool34

Tool34

Audioholic Intern
Good to know. Thanks for the reply. The two products that I have narrowed it down to are the Pioneer VSX-1131 and the Denon AVR-720W. The Pioneer has some really good reviews. The Denon has too. The deal breaker might be the Pioneer has phono connections in the back. Again, thanks for the info, much appreciated.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
If the rated power is similar, pick the one with the features you need. Many people use an external phono preamp to connect to an AVR without phono input, but having it built in could be a plus.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
Hey Guys-

I have been reading articles about weight of A/V receivers. Gene has also mentioned this in one of his YouTube videos. To the ones who could shed some light on this and offer me some info, I would really appreciate it. I have been debating on Pioneer and Denon models. I have compared two models that have the same features that I am looking for. However, the Pioneer model is 3.5lbs heavier than the Denon. Makes me think that the Pioneer is more bulked up and a better option for me. Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks guys!

Chad
Tool34
I had to laugh when I read your post. I have read some obscure criteria to evaluate audio equipment while on this forum. But his is new and great : buy them by the pound ! The heavier they are, the more good stuff must be inside. It made me laugh.

It made me laugh because I have asked myself the very same question for the very same reason!
While there is no direct correlation I'm sure, there is something to be learned. If you walk back a few years and pick out some "great" AVRs or amps from bygone years and find out how much they weigh: they were porky pigs. They were heavy. And much of that weight was in the power supply area and the ability to supply current to the output stage.

Fast forward to today and the AVR you're looking at is 10 lbs or more lighter than the good old days. What's the scoop? Is today's AVR engineered better, or, did they start throwing parts out until they stopped working and then put that last part back in. I suppose there's a bit of both going on.

I have owned Denon for several generations. Never a problem, no complaints. I have AVR envy and if I upgrade mine, I will probably choose a Marantz. Same parent company. Go figure. I don't know much about Pioneer. I am ok with that. They don't weigh enough :D
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Other things the weight may relate to are chassis materials, heat sink...

Wouldn't it be nice if a beefier power supply was like an extra tick option on a given avr model? :) They could sell 'em by the pound so to speak....
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Hi Lovinthehd,
First, I wish to thank you for your liking of my thread on the best material for building speaker enclosures.

I entirely agree with you about the option of choosing a beefier power supply which would provide you with full rated power on all channels simultaneously.

However, as you know, in the case of music which normally has a variable amplitude, it would rather be unusual for the amplified source signal content to simultaneously require full output from all channels. The situation would only arise if someone decided to play continuous sine wave signals. The manufacturers know it, and this why, to be competitive they reduce production costs by putting less powerful power supplies.

With regard to the reduction in the weight of audio equipment over the years, the kind of materials used on more recent products such as the finishing with plastic instead of metal, use of more IC's and other more compact components have contributed to it. For instance, with the use of Class D amps, as they are quite a bit more efficient than the Class A and AB types, they generate less heat and don't need heavy heat sinks and/or fans.

The situation does not necessarily mean that the newer products are of less quality or are less reliable. On the contrary, since they use more compact components, that most likely means more air circulation between components, less heat and hopefully better reliability and longer life.

It's good to share positive comments and passion on this site.

Cheers!
 
Last edited:
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hey Guys-

I have been reading articles about weight of A/V receivers. Gene has also mentioned this in one of his YouTube videos. To the ones who could shed some light on this and offer me some info, I would really appreciate it. I have been debating on Pioneer and Denon models. I have compared two models that have the same features that I am looking for. However, the Pioneer model is 3.5lbs heavier than the Denon. Makes me think that the Pioneer is more bulked up and a better option for me. Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks guys!

Chad
Onkyo and NAD AVRs are typically heavier in terms of lbs to watt ratio, especially their older models. HK AVRs also used to be heavier relatively speaking but not any more. As others have mentioned, it depends on factors other than just how beefy the power supplies are. Some manufacturers are still using heavy duty steel enclosures while others like Denon and Marantz use relatively lighter gauge material and even plastic where applicable, to reduce weight of their AVRs and lower end integrated amps. Everything being equal, reducing weight is a good thing to do.

Cooling/heat sink design can also be a major contributor. The bottom line is, you can't use weight alone as a reliable indicator for quality unless you are comparing models in the same lineup of the same manufacturer. Even then, it is not 100%, just that the odds get better especially if you are comparing units that have the same class amp designs (e.g. AB, D, G, H etc.) and are both cooled with heat sinks only or both with heat sinks plus fans.
 
Tool34

Tool34

Audioholic Intern
Bucknekked-

As I began reading your post I was certain that you were making fun of my post, or at the very least mocking my question. When I finished, I was certain that you were not. The whole weight question to the forum was not the only criteria that I am looking into which A/V receiver to buy. I got a lot of feedback and much of it was validated by other forums that I check. I always come back to this forum because I get the best and most objective feedback.

The power-supply and heat sink were the two main reasons given to as why maybe the receivers are heavier. Also, the chassis. The two receivers that I was comparing had most of the same features. Even to the wattage to which it outputs. Thank you guys for the feedback, it was much appreciated.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
I was curious about this so I looked up the weight of the Pioneer and the Denon. I chuckled because it may not mean anything, but my NAD T758 weighs 33.9 pounds. That's almost twice the heavier Pioneer.

Wow. It's not twice as good nor twice as powerful.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
My ~10 year old Pio Elite VSX-82TXS is right at 35lb!

And, the spec sheet claims:
130 Watts x 7 (20Hz 20kHz, 8 ohms, .09% THD)

While AH did a review and shows:
At full continuous unclipped power (166wpc x 1; 8 ohms, 138wpc x 2; 8 ohms - full bandwidth with less than 0.1% THD+N), the Pioneer VSX-82TXS still maintained good bandwidth linearity with a -3dB point of 51kHz despite we were driving the receiver way beyond its rated 130wpc power specification. Into 4 ohms, the VSX-82TXS was able to deliver continuous power levels at a whopping 235wpc x 1 and 190wpc x 2 with less than 0.1% THD + N. The amplifier section of this receiver is conservatively rated. Kudos to Pioneer.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
The NAD receivers seem to be the only ones today which list watts per channel with all channels driven, which in the case of the T758 is 60 watts x7.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
None other than perhaps NAD seem to be conservative anymore, they all embellish to sell product. It's especially amusing to me walking by receivers on the shelf at Best Buy to see the big sticker claiming "780 watts" on the $250 units.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
My Marantz 8300 had a copper clad chassis and weighed 42lbs. Rated at 120WPC, the actual benched output was 92W ACD.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
But Marantz A/V receivers are reported as still having more conservative ratings than Yamahas for instance. Anyway, I don't think there is one AVR nowadays with all channels driven output equal to that of only 2 channels driven.
 
Tool34

Tool34

Audioholic Intern
The two receivers in question is the Denon AVR-X1200w and the Pioneer VSX-1131. The Denon weighs in at 18.7lbs and the Pioneer is 22lbs.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Neither the total watts advertising nor ACD full bandwith at low distortion point specs really tell you a lot either. Sure be nice if they used dBW instead.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
But Marantz A/V receivers are reported as still having more conservative ratings than Yamahas for instance. Anyway, I don't think there is one AVR nowadays with all channels driven output equal to that of only 2 channels driven.
Outside of 2ch receivers I think this has largely been true all along (acd output not equalling same as 2ch driven), they're just different ways of rating at given points to make the watt number appear larger...
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Not just different ways of measuring (many now give 1kHz and 20-20K) but also it is pretty much a given that they will report the 2ch rating in their marketing material but the ACD level will always be lower since it is all coming off a single power supply. Compare that to a dedicated amp that normally rates their power ACD because nobody cares what a 5 or 7 ch amp's 2ch rating is. For AVR sales however, it looks better and sells more product.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Amplifier class has a bearing on weight as well where the inefficient Class A Class A/B require more heat sinking compared to that of a class D amp.
 
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