Upgrading home theater..please help?

L

lithnights

Audioholic
I'm hoping you guys can help out a newbie. We will be replacing our 8 year old TV with a Samsung PN50B860 50-Inch 1080p Plasma HDTV, replacing the entertainment center, and want to upgrade/create a new home theater around it. We haven't decided whether to hang the TV on the wall or just get a 6ft wide furniture stand. I currently have the following..

Pioneer VSX-1015TX receiver (3 years old)
Bose 301 series IV speakers front speakers (13 years old)
Infinity center channel model CC-2 (13 years old)
AR S108PS subwoofer 120W (5 years old)
Onkyo DX-C390 5 disc cd player (3 years old)
JA Audio Mini -Cube Speakers Model JA-B3 rear speakers (5 years old)

My existing setup (mostly bought while single) is pretty decent for my ears but my wife would prefer a sleeker, less obtrusive look.. e.g. cube type speakers or in wall speakers. Thus the 301s may have to go. Also, I'd like to get matching front and center speakers since I've heard that produces a better sound than non-matching speakers. Also, the rear speakers are a brand (JA Audio) I've never heard of and cost me $80 off ebay. Who knows how good/bad they really are. The family room is 14x20. See link to pictures of existing. I know the speakers aren't lined up correctly but there was really no way to get the side speakers in line without drilling into the ent center.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lithnights/HT#

PURPOSE: While I used to crank up music (radio and cds), I now have two small kids and I don't do it that often. I also don't watch as many movies as I used to but I think that will increase. Thus I imagine my main purpose for my HT is for movie watching but I don't want to get dinky speakers that won't be able to handle me cranking up the music like I do with my 301s. 5.1 is a minimum. I don't know if I want/need 6.1 and definitely not 7.1.

BUDGET: My budget for the 5 speakers plus sub is $1000-1500 or so. I don't mind spending a bit more if it's a noticeable difference. But me not being an audiophile, I imagine the law of diminishing returns would kick in and I wouldn't tell a difference.

QUESTIONS/CONCERNS:

1. I believe my Pioneer receiver is adequate for what I need but it does not have HDMI inputs. Is this a concern?
2. Should I keep my sub or get a new one?
3. Can I find small/sleek speakers that would rival or outperform my 301s? If not, I'll probably be looking at in wall speakers.
4. Based on my receiver and TV, do you have any suggestions or thoughts on speakers/sub?

Sorry for so much info but I figured it's better to give too much than too little. If I'm being too vague or too specific, please let me know.

Thanks in advance!
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
I know those 301s and you will be amazed how much better a new system will sound. I'll toss out a few ideas for you and then you can investigate further. What I don't know is the size of the space. That's important. Not just the listening area but the whole space. The sub has to pressurize the entire space. You'll need that information (in cubic feet) to size the subwoofer.

Option 1
SVSounds (SVS) offers a well thought of speaker and subwoofer package deal. I've never heard the speakers but I swear by their subs. Their 5.1 Deluxe Surround System with SBS-01 mains and PB12-NSD subwoofer is on sale for $1199.

Option 2
Infinity's Primus P362 towers are in both expensive and very well thought of here. Add a matching PC350 center, and a pair of P162 bookshelves as surrounds and if you've shopped well you're out the door for roughly $600. I would contact SVS, Hsu Research, and eD and have them size subwoofer options for you and yes you will want a new sub. It won't take much to drive these and refurbished Onkyo TX-SR607 or 707 should be fine. I use a refurbished Onkyo in my master bedroom and love it. These are soon to be last year's models and are being sold cheap.

Option 3
The budget busting deluxe option. I haven't heard these but members are snapping them up. In fact I believe there is a waiting list. A pair of EMP Impression Series E55Ti tower speakers, and a matched EMP Impression E5Ci center for a total of $1020 shipped. Add a $450 refurbished Onkyo TX-SR707 and you're styling for under $1500. Then start saving for matched surrounds and a really nice subwoofer.
 
L

lithnights

Audioholic
I know those 301s and you will be amazed how much better a new system will sound. I'll toss out a few ideas for you and then you can investigate further. What I don't know is the size of the space. That's important. Not just the listening area but the whole space. The sub has to pressurize the entire space. You'll need that information (in cubic feet) to size the subwoofer.

Option 1
SVSounds (SVS) offers a well thought of speaker and subwoofer package deal. I've never heard the speakers but I swear by their subs. Their 5.1 Deluxe Surround System with SBS-01 mains and PB12-NSD subwoofer is on sale for $1199.

Option 2
Infinity's Primus P362 towers are in both expensive and very well thought of here. Add a matching PC350 center, and a pair of P162 bookshelves as surrounds and if you've shopped well you're out the door for roughly $600. I would contact SVS, Hsu Research, and eD and have them size subwoofer options for you and yes you will want a new sub. It won't take much to drive these and refurbished Onkyo TX-SR607 or 707 should be fine. I use a refurbished Onkyo in my master bedroom and love it. These are soon to be last year's models and are being sold cheap.

Option 3
The budget busting deluxe option. I haven't heard these but members are snapping them up. In fact I believe there is a waiting list. A pair of EMP Impression Series E55Ti tower speakers, and a matched EMP Impression E5Ci center for a total of $1020 shipped. Add a $450 refurbished Onkyo TX-SR707 and you're styling for under $1500. Then start saving for matched surrounds and a really nice subwoofer.
The size of the total room is 14x20 but it's a vaulted ceiling (15 feet high at peak, 8 feet at low point..see pictures on link) so it's hard to come up with cubic feet. I can calculate cubic feet in a typical room but not so much in this case.

Good stuff on the options, I checked out some of the links. But I think my limitation may be the size of some of these. 12" x 7" x 9.5" isn't much different than my 301s. So while they would sound better and I could likely afford them, I don't think the wife would be thrilled. And she would laugh at any towers. ; )

I guess the big question is.. can I get similar sound in tiny cube like speakers? I'm assuming the answer will be no, just based on basic physics. At which point, I may have to seriously consider in wall speakers.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
The size of the total room is 14x20 but it's a vaulted ceiling (15 feet high at peak, 8 feet at low point..see pictures on link) so it's hard to come up with cubic feet. I can calculate cubic feet in a typical room but not so much in this case.
So between 3300 and 4000cuft plus any attached spaces open to that room. The PB12-NSD should be able to handle 3500cuft but I'd double check with SVS.

I guess the big question is.. can I get similar sound in tiny cube like speakers? I'm assuming the answer will be no, just based on basic physics.
In a word - NO! You may be able to find something smaller or less obtrusive but they won't sound as good. I would try to sell her based on the looks of the EMPs (gorgeous!) or the reasonable size of the SVS.

I'll toss out another option but they aren't really in the same league. Five of these Energy FPS plus a great sub would be my fall back position. You hang two of these on the walls at ear level on each side of the entertainment center, two on the walls directly to the left and right of your seating position, and place the 5th sideways just under the speaker. Then set a nice sub, possibly a Hsu VTF-2 or the SVS or eD equivalent sitting on a SubDude or two to isolate it from the floor. I suspect you'll like this setup.

The last ditch idea is really a bit too small for that room but might work. Klipsch Quintet SL 5.0 speakers with a nice strong eD, Hsu, or SVS sub. Klipsch have a somewhat bright sound and are a love them or no love for them brand of speaker so you'll want to go listen to them before buying. Opinions run about 50:50. But in all honesty they should blow away those little 301s.
 
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G

gchucky

Enthusiast
It won't take much to drive these and refurbished Onkyo TX-SR607 or 707 should be fine. I use a refurbished Onkyo in my master bedroom and love it. These are soon to be last year's models and are being sold cheap.
Just as an update to this, J&R is selling the Onkyo TX-SR607 new for $389. I picked mine up on Sunday.
 
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sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Correction:
I'll toss out another option but they aren't really in the same league. Five of these Energy FPS plus a great sub would be my fall back position. You hang two of these on the walls at ear level on each side of the entertainment center, two on the walls directly to the left and right of your seating position, and place the 5th sideways just under the TV. Then set a nice sub, possibly a Hsu VTF-2 or the SVS or eD equivalent sitting on a SubDude or two to isolate it from the floor. I suspect you'll like this setup.
Note: The Energy FPS is discontinued so when they run out that's it.
 
Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
I have both SVS speakers (M-Series) and an SVS subwoofer. I can say they rock. I had speakers that almost cost twice as much and these speakers smoke them.
 
L

lithnights

Audioholic
I looked at the SVS page again and may try to get the wife to see that they really aren't that big. I think the downfall may be the surround speakers being as big as the main ones. She likes the little cube rears I have now so I guess we'll have to chat about that.

I think the EMP ones are out of my league, and on the end of the budget. I'd rather save the difference in price (SVS to EMP) and spend it on the blu ray or save for a replacement receiver in a couple years.

One thing I noticed was that the SVS mains (SBS-01) are around $220 a pair. Knowing that my Bose 301s are $300+ a pair, should I assume that the SVS mains aren't as good? I know price isn't anything, and I know many people badmouth Bose as overpriced but I'm just wondering if I'd be going down in performance (from my 301s to the SVS mains) when it comes to music listening. Tell me I have nothing to worry about.. ;)
 
njedpx3

njedpx3

Audioholic General
your cubic fett

The size of the total room is 14x20 but it's a vaulted ceiling (15 feet high at peak, 8 feet at low point..see pictures on link) so it's hard to come up with cubic feet. I can calculate cubic feet in a typical room but not so much in this case.
...
Okay the wall to the 8ft low is 8 ft X 14 t = 112 sq ft

The triangle area is one half base X height = 1/2 * 7 (15-8) * 14 ( from pictures the peak runs parallel with 20 foot side, rises on the 14 foot side) = 49 sq ft

total side = 112 + 49 = 161 sq ft

total volume 161 sq ft x 20 ft = 3,220 cubic feet. ...fair large volume = large room

Good Luck!

Forest Man
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
One thing I noticed was that the SVS mains (SBS-01) are around $220 a pair. Knowing that my Bose 301s are $300+ a pair, should I assume that the SVS mains aren't as good?
Sorry buddy but those 301s were never a good speaker. You can do a lot better for $150/pr these days. Sorry I don't like trashing anybody's gear but I couldn't let you feel bad about replacing those 301s.
 
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