Upgrade front speakers or add a sub to each channel? Advice?

T

Tempanic

Enthusiast
This is my first post, but I thought I could get some feedback from you folks. I've tried searching but the information was limited.

I have a low end setup that I got dirt cheap. Denon E-300 5.1 pushing upto 175 watts per channel with one LFE that is powering Martin Logan MLT-2 5.1 speakers. The micro sat's up front specifically aren't cutting it for me (110hz crossover).

SO.... I thought I was a genius when I thought of ditching the cheap rebranded ML Sub and buying two Polk PSW110 Subwoofers that have high level in and outs with a high/low pass filter. I was thinking I could set the fronts to LARGE on the AVR and run the speaker wires through the sub then into a speaker so I would have one sub on each side of the room that extends the micro sattelite's range. The plus side of doing it this way i thought was the bass could be tighter and i would get stereo bass for a scene where a helicopter pans over or an explosion happens on the left or the right.

But the question is should I invest in two PSW110 subwoofers and get rid of the one I have or should I just upgrade the fronts to some punchy floor standing speakers like the Klipsch, Polk, Martin Logans... etc?

Thanks guys
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
How big is the room?

I would get a nice sub, like a PB1000 or vtf2 ect, then readjust and see if the low end you are looking for is there, if its not, upgrade your front end...
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Depending on budget - I would replace both, the sub and front 3 channels
 
T

Tempanic

Enthusiast
The room is 20' long X 15' wide. 8' ceiling in my basement. The room is treated. Im not all to worried about something that hits really low, but more intrested in accuracy and more bass from my font left and right channels specifically. question still stands should I upgrade the fronts to floor standing speakers or run a tight accurate sub before the front left and rights I have now to extend their frequency lower and get left/right specific bass notes?
 
T

Tempanic

Enthusiast
I want spend around $300 but no more than $400. I know thats a bit tight... haha
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
The room is 20' long X 15' wide. 8' ceiling in my basement. The room is treated. Im not all to worried about something that hits really low, but more intrested in accuracy and more bass from my font left and right channels specifically.
To do that you have to change the fronts - however a better sub will give you better bass - and enhance the illusion up front.
You can go with one sub and a pair of Cambridge S30 speakers for the front L/R, and ditch the ML center channel.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
On this budget you shouldn't worry about high crossover point (which according to manual should be 130 for center and 110 for l/r - i would set it at 120hz)
What you should worry about is a sub which could play flat to 2x-200hz - obviously your kit sub doesn't cut it in room your size.

Don't be afraid of spending everything on a sub - you will love the result and will be able to use this sub for many years.

$400 is very close to getting a decent sub - VTF-1 MK2 Subwoofer or above mentioned - PB-1000

Yes - both are slightly above the budget, but below it would get crap. pure and simple. If $400 is really hard stop - try to look for used models

Place the sub in the front to minimize sub localization issues
 
T

Tempanic

Enthusiast
how do you mean split them on the avr? you mean a y split RCA from the LFE? if that's what you mean it wouldnt give me a left and right channel signal for the sub. It would just give a sum of all the low frequency of the audio track.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
bass isn't like mids and highs {its non directional, just place them in the best spots, not left and right}, you can sum them and be you wont know the difference, I prefer it this way with HT... This is my point in not worrying about the fronts until the lows are taken care of.

Cross your mains a little higher and let the sub do the work, that will free up a little more of the front sound stage for mids and highs...
 
T

Tempanic

Enthusiast
Dang, you all are telling me something completely different from what I originally had in mind. SO, you all are telling me to just get one good sub before I change my fronts. My whole issue wasn't so much with the lack of bass though. It was that my fronts didnt carry any oomph.

Whats more imnportant? A more accurate single sub or "full-range" fronts (left/right)?
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
LOL, but the stronger front end isn't going to give you "good" HT sound, if you want to get them most noticeable change then get a good sub, cross your front where they can be crossed... Even if you get the biggest front end available, you are still going to cross them around 80hz, and there are plenty of bookshelfs that will reach lower than that...

I say get a new sub, a "good" sub, for that room you should look into the vtf2, lv12, or a minimum of the pb1000, but I would go for vtf2, buy once cry once..
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Don't buy anything. Save up and get a good sub. Or save up and get new fronts. No need to rush things.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
A more accurate single sub or "full-range" fronts (left/right)?
FYI: True Full-Range front will cost you same price as a nice new car... think about it.

It's been proven time and time again that smaller accurate bookshelf+accurate sub tower will sound together (properly integrated of-course) as good as real full range speaker

I would not recommend getting two cheap subs, you'd be better off with one good sub (see my recs above) if you can't afford it now - save up and wait

ImcLoud - Yes, Lower bass is not localizable , but somewhere above 100-120hz it will be. Ergo with such high crossover sub should be in the front to minimize this issue
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
I figured if he was going with two of them cheaper jbl subs for $400, then I personally would cross the sats as low as possible and X the subs around 80-90.... Rather miss whats rolled off than have it sound like cocky... I always try the subs at each location before I choose, you need a nice sub if you are crossing high, because not all of them do that well...
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I figured if he was going with two of them cheaper jbl subs for $400, then I personally would cross the sats as low as possible and X the subs around 80-90.... Rather miss whats rolled off than have it sound like cocky...
he can't cross his sats at 80-90 - they are spec'd +/- 2b at 110 (l/r) /130(c) - and needs a flat to 200hz sub.
Getting two jbls will give him nice kick in lower-mid bass but I assure you there will be gaps in higher bass

A single VTF-1 placed in front cornet could do the job. HSU Research VTF-1 Subwoofer Review | Audioholics
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
FYI: True Full-Range front will cost you same price as a nice new car... think about it.

It's been proven time and time again that smaller accurate bookshelf+accurate sub tower will sound together (properly integrated of-course) as good as real full range speaker

I would not recommend getting two cheap subs, you'd be better off with one good sub (see my recs above) if you can't afford it now - save up and wait

ImcLoud - Yes, Lower bass is not localizable , but somewhere above 100-120hz it will be. Ergo with such high crossover sub should be in the front to minimize this issue
I will say the best bass system I've heard has no subs. Of course the speakers are custom builds with a complex design and expensive drivers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I will say the best bass system I've heard has no subs. Of course the speakers are custom builds with a complex design and expensive drivers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
I guess you are talking about Dr Mark aka TLSGuy system - and yes - while I had not had a pleasure to experience it in person, but the specs,parts, know-how-to, and the descriptions makes me assume his speakers are closer equivalent to full-range (new car priced) speaker
 
T

Tempanic

Enthusiast
I see this forum growing into the beginning of a sweet new relationship.... Thanks guys for all your responses. I think I'm going to go with the S70's and later save up for the VTF-2 mk2 sub. I'll probably end up selling the whole MLT-2 system. it's just interesting how quick I outgrew them. HTIB garbage?

Also why do people cross their fronts at 80? Why not allow your fronts to go low as they can? As for example in the case of the s70's down to 30hz?
 
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