Universal DVD's

[tjkahn]

First of all, I would like to give the utmost in compliments to this site. While much of the discussion goes way beyond my understanding, this is easily the best consumer electronics site I have ever seen. I have a number of questions, but first I will give some background on my system:

Denon 3802 A/V Receiver
M&K MX-125 Subwoofer
JBL N-24 5 Speaker System
Sony NSP560 DVD Player
Onkyo 5 Disc CD Changer
Sony SAT W-60 Ultimate TV DirecTV Receiver
JVC VCR
Panasonic 31" superflat (at least it was considered that in 1997) TV

As you can probably tell, I need to upgrade the speakers and DVD player - I will upgrade the TV when my wife and I move from our town home to a bigger place (probably next year).

Based largely on what I've seen written on this site, and the favorable comparison to the Monitor Audio GR10's (which are my favorite speakers I've ever heard) in Speaker Face off III, I have the Axiom Epic Grand Master (without the Sub and with the larger center channel) on order for an in-home trial. I also have a Denon 2900 Universal DVD player on order from a local dealer (paid $850, btw), with Blue Jean Cable 6-channel interconnects.

Here are my questions:

1) I have seen a lot of information on the Denon reviews on this site that reference firmware updates. What exactly does this mean, and how does one get it when they come out? Is it downloaded from a disk the manufacturer sends you, or do you hook up a PC to the player? I'm obviously a newbie to that one.

2) I assume that with any Universal DVD player, taking cable quality out of the equation, it is always better to play through the digital out on the DVD player and let the receiver do the work, unless you have to use the 6-channel outs for DVD-A or SACD. Is this correct? Should I use the 3802 as my processor whenever I can for DVD-videos and redbook CD's?

3) Related to question 2 above, I am having thoughts about whether to get the 5900 instead of the 2900. I realize that two of the main differences on the 5900 - namely the digital link and DVI-out, I will not be able to take advantage of now given my Receiver and TV. However, I will likely upgrade those next year. I am mainly buying the 2900 now to be able to enjoy DVD-A and SACD playback. It will cost $850 more for the 5900. My original thought was that by the time I upgrade my TV and receiver, or not long thereafter, the price on a unit comparably equippeed to the 5900 will have come down, and I can always upgrade then for not much more than the difference in price between the 5900 and 2900. The 2900 seems like it would sound awfully close to the 5900 (I have only heard the 2900). Is my thinking correct, or shoiuld I just go with the 5900? It just seems to me that getting the 5900 now may be jumping a little ahead of the curve, but I don't want to regret not getting it now if it's a better decision.

Whew! Sorry everyone about the long-winded message, but this site has helped me so much in the past, I thought I'd get it all out. Thanks!

 

[av_phile]

Let me try to answer them

1) I have seen a lot of information on the Denon reviews on this site that reference firmware updates. What exactly does this mean, and how does one get it when they come out? Is it downloaded from a disk the manufacturer sends you, or do you hook up a PC to the player? I'm obviously a newbie to that one.

I haven't tried upgrading the firmware of my DVD player though mine is also upgradable. I think some units pop in a Data CD from the manufacturer to do the upgrade.

2) I assume that with any Universal DVD player, taking cable quality out of the equation, it is always better to play through the digital out on the DVD player and let the receiver do the work, unless you have to use the 6-channel outs for DVD-A or SACD. Is this correct? Should I use the 3802 as my processor whenever I can for DVD-videos and redbook CD's?

If the DAC/processor on the receiver is known to be superior to what you have in the player, then use digital cables. Otherwise, go the analog route. Some receivers do upsampling on the processors which arguably yield better analog waveform shaping. In your case, I would simply asume that because both your player and receiver are from the same brand, either way will do. But you could do some experimentation yourself. Afterall, you can use both digital and analog interconnects and do some AB comparison via the receiver's source selector.

3) Related to question 2 above, I am having thoughts about whether to get the 5900 instead of the 2900. I realize that two of the main differences on the 5900 - namely the digital link and DVI-out, I will not be able to take advantage of now given my Receiver and TV. However, I will likely upgrade those next year. I am mainly buying the 2900 now to be able to enjoy DVD-A and SACD playback. It will cost $850 more for the 5900. My original thought was that by the time I upgrade my TV and receiver, or not long thereafter, the price on a unit comparably equippeed to the 5900 will have come down, and I can always upgrade then for not much more than the difference in price between the 5900 and 2900. The 2900 seems like it would sound awfully close to the 5900 (I have only heard the 2900). Is my thinking correct, or shoiuld I just go with the 5900? It just seems to me that getting the 5900 now may be jumping a little ahead of the curve, but I don't want to regret not getting it now if it's a better decision.

Obsolescence is really an intriguing variable these days. Personally I'd get the 2900 if only to experience DVD-A and SACD right now. I wouldn't recommend that last year when there were fewer titles. There's a good chance that by the time you upgrade to a DVI-compliant display, the price of a similarly equipped 5900 will have gone down. Say, a year from now. But I must say getting one right now can be considered "future-proofing" your investment to some extent, if the price difference is no object. Perhaps there are other features of the 5900 that make it worth the $850 difference other than the DVI.

 

[tjkahn]

I haven't tried upgrading the firmware of my DVD player though mine is also upgradable. I think some units pop in a Data CD from the manufacturer to do the upgrade.

First, thank you av_phile for your detailed response. Funny that the Audioholics posted an article on this subject on the home page - I think today, unless I just missed it earlier. It would seem to me though, that instead of going through the effort of burning the firmware update onto a CD, shouldn't you/couldn't you have the manufacturer or your authorized Denon dealer send it to you ready to load??

If the DAC/processor on the receiver is known to be superior to what you have in the player, then use digital cables. Otherwise, go the analog route. Some receivers do upsampling on the processors which arguably yield better analog waveform shaping. In your case, I would simply asume that because both your player and receiver are from the same brand, either way will do. But you could do some experimentation yourself. Afterall, you can use both digital and analog interconnects and do some AB comparison via the receiver's source selector.

Two follow ups on this one - 1) Any idea how the precessors compare in the 2900 and 5900 to the 3802 receiver? 2) I don't believe the 3802 processes DTS 96/24, so if I play through the analog jacks of the 2900/5900, will I get the higher sound quality of true 96/24?

Obsolescence is really an intriguing variable these days. Personally I'd get the 2900 if only to experience DVD-A and SACD right now. I wouldn't recommend that last year when there were fewer titles. There's a good chance that by the time you upgrade to a DVI-compliant display, the price of a similarly equipped 5900 will have gone down. Say, a year from now. But I must say getting one right now can be considered "future-proofing" your investment to some extent, if the price difference is no object. Perhaps there are other features of the 5900 that make it worth the $850 difference other than the DVI.

I won't say that money is no object, because it is for everyone, although to different degrees. If I knew the 5900 was future proof, I would grab it. But being that the universal DVD is so new to the market, there could very well be something better. Even Gene's review says that DVI will be replaced by HDMI, althought there will be an adapter available. The other thing "pushing" me to the 5900 is that given how much I like my 3802, I would stay in the Denon family for my next receiver and be able to take advantage of the D-Link. It just seems that there are more bugs with the 5900 vs. the 2900, although apparently many will be addressed by firmware updates. My rhetorical question is, at what point do they stop with the firmware updates and just produce a new machine? If I knew the 5900 was going to be supported for many years to come, I think I would feel more comfortable with the future proofing aspect and would grab it.

I would love some more comments about how "future proof" the 5900 is.

 

[av_phile]

It would seem to me though, that instead of going through the effort of burning the firmware update onto a CD, shouldn't you/couldn't you have the manufacturer or your authorized Denon dealer send it to you ready to load??

I think they send the firmware on a CD. And you just play it to upgrade.

Two follow ups on this one - 1) Any idea how the precessors compare in the 2900 and 5900 to the 3802 receiver? 2) I don't believe the 3802 processes DTS 96/24, so if I play through the analog jacks of the 2900/5900, will I get the higher sound quality of true 96/24?

Theoretically a DTS 96/24 should yield a more precise decoded analog waveform when it exits the player's analog outs. So I would assume 5900 should sound better than your 3802 receiver's DAC.

I won't say that money is no object, because it is for everyone, although to different degrees. If I knew the 5900 was future proof, I would grab it. But being that the universal DVD is so new to the market, there could very well be something better. Even Gene's review says that DVI will be replaced by HDMI, althought there will be an adapter available. The other thing "pushing" me to the 5900 is that given how much I like my 3802, I would stay in the Denon family for my next receiver and be able to take advantage of the D-Link. It just seems that there are more bugs with the 5900 vs. the 2900, although apparently many will be addressed by firmware updates. My rhetorical question is, at what point do they stop with the firmware updates and just produce a new machine? If I knew the 5900 was going to be supported for many years to come, I think I would feel more comfortable with the future proofing aspect and would grab it.

There's a Denon DVD5900 review posted by Gene last feb you may want to look into. Quite impressive. Offhand, its Faroudja DCDi chip, Burr-brown 24-bit DAC, its disc versatility to play all the hi-res formats plus jpeg and wma files seem reasonable enough for its $2000 price tag which I am sure can still be discounted from some retailers or online. Just make sure Gene's complaint about the d-link problem is addressed. I think there's also a DVD5900 thread under A/V Hardware, discussing some disc incompatibilities. Seems to me that the 5900 does have a significant number of firmware related problems.