Turntable Suggestions

[PearlcorderS701]

In piecing together some missing elements for a new two-channel listening room I will be installing gear in, the time has come to replace my aging Technics table...

Does anyone have any suggestions for a good table that's somewhat affordable? I don't think it necessarily needs a built in preamp as I will be connecting it to an integrated amp which will have a phono input, but if anyone could lead me in the right direction in terms of a quality table that's below $1K I would appreciate it.

P.S. Sorry if this isn't the correct area of the forum to post this question -- I didn't see an area devoted to turntables or analog, unless I simply missed it...

 

[Seth=L]

Marantz TT8001

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=81&products_id=1562&osCsid=wzwufbvqrx

OR

Technics SL-1200 mk. II

with this tone arm... (requires 3rd party adaptor plate)

http://cgi.ebay.com/-HI-END-JELCO-SA-250ST-TONEARM_W0QQitemZ300392191031QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100131?IMSfp=TL100131175008r16007

I'm getting this information from someone that knows far more about turntables than I do, but I trust his judgement above others in terms of best bang for buck.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Marantz TT8001

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=81&products_id=1562&osCsid=wzwufbvqrx

OR

Technics SL-1200 mk. II

with this tone arm... (requires 3rd party adaptor plate)

http://cgi.ebay.com/-HI-END-JELCO-SA-250ST-TONEARM_W0QQitemZ300392191031QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100131?IMSfp=TL100131175008r16007

I'm getting this information from someone that knows far more about turntables than I do, but I trust his judgement above others in terms of best bang for buck.

Thanks Seth.

I actually used the Technics 1200s when I DJ'ed years back, but didn't really think these were geared towards home use; also, that Marantz is a bit out of my budget.

 

[WmAx]

Thanks Seth.

I actually used the Technics 1200s when I DJ'ed years back, but didn't really think these were geared towards home use; also, that Marantz is a bit out of my budget.

Actually, the 1200 was designed for home hi-fi use. It was later adopted by DJs because of it's very high build quality that makes it able to withstand lots of physical abuse. Now, the table, motor, etc.; are very high quality. The arm is not great though. Replace it with the unit Seth suggested above and nothing under $1500 new will touch the technical performance you will achieve. The table plus arm plus adapter plate to install the new arm should total no more than $800-$900. Within your budget.

If you went used, you could get a high performance 80's vintage Japanese table for about $400-$600 in excellent condition, that would give you even higher performance than the Technics with Jelco arm, and certainly higher performance than any $1000 and under 'audiophile' tables at new prices. Remember that in the 80's, multi-billion dollar tech corporations were investing millions into to technology to extract data as accurately as possible from vinyl. Take advantage of these by-gone products that were only made affordable by mass production.

Some examples of superb Japanese vintage tables that qualify:

Denon DP-59
Yamaha GT-2000
Yamaha YP-D8
Yamaha YP-D10
Yamaha PX-1
JVC QL-Y7
Sony PS-X600
Sony PS-X700
Pioneer PL-50LII
JVC QL-A75

-Chris

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Actually, the 1200 was designed for home hi-fi use. It was later adopted by DJs because of it's very high build quality that makes it able to withstand lots of physical abuse. Now, the table, motor, etc.; are very high quality. The arm is not great though. Replace it with the unit Seth suggested above and nothing under $1500 new will touch the technical performance you will achieve. The table plus arm plus adapter plate to install the new arm should total no more than $800-$900. Within your budget.

-Chris

Thanks Chris; I shall indeed consider the 1200 then. Are they still in production? Is there a replacement model? I've been out of the turntable/DJ loop for so long, I don't even know anymore...I read online rumors about Panasonic discontinuing these tables but then another report said they would not. Do you know where I can get it for a good price?

 

[WmAx]

Thanks Chris; I shall indeed consider the 1200 then. Are they still in production? Is there a replacement model? I've been out of the turntable/DJ loop for so long, I don't even know anymore...I read online rumors about Panasonic discontinuing these tables but then another report said they would not. Do you know where I can get it for a good price?

Yes, the SL-1200MKII is still available. Standard silver color. It's available in black too.

Here is a good source for a great price:
http://www.abesofmaine.com/item.do?item=TCSL1200MK2&id=TCSL1200MK2

Don't forget the Jelco arm specified above if you want maximum performance/SQ.

-Chris

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Yes, the SL-1200MKII is still available. Standard silver color. It's available in black too.

Here is a good source for a great price:
http://www.abesofmaine.com/item.do?item=TCSL1200MK2&id=TCSL1200MK2

Don't forget the Jelco arm specified above if you want maximum performance/SQ.

-Chris

Thank you for the link! That's a great price on that.

If I chose not to go the route of changing out the tone arm and kept the stock unit, would LPs and 45s still sound okay?

Here's another question: Does the 1200 come with a needle and headshell?

Also...perhaps you could assist me with a pre-hookup question. I want to transfer LPs and 45s to my Tascam CD recorder, but also hear the audio from the table as they record, so how would this work? Would the line out from the Technics go directly into the recorder's analog ins, or would they go into the integrated amp's PHONO in?

 

[3db]

If you went used, you could get a high performance 80's vintage Japanese table for about $400-$600 in excellent condition, that would give you even higher performance than the Technics with Jelco arm, and certainly higher performance than any $1000 and under 'audiophile' tables at new prices. Remember that in the 80's, multi-billion dollar tech corporations were investing millions into to technology to extract data as accurately as possible from vinyl. Take advantage of these by-gone products that were only made affordable by mass production.

Some examples of superb Japanese vintage tables that qualify:

Denon DP-59
Yamaha GT-2000
Yamaha YP-D8
Yamaha YP-D10
Yamaha PX-1
JVC QL-Y7
Sony PS-X600
Sony PS-X700
Pioneer PL-50LII
JVC QL-A75

-Chris

Out of curioisty, what modern tables did you compare them too? Did you actually listem to them and test them to reach this conclusion?

 

[highfigh]

Out of curioisty, what modern tables did you compare them too? Did you actually listem to them and test them to reach this conclusion?

I'll chime in on the Sony PS-X600- tapping on the base is audible but the base is very heavy (over 20 lb) and I have never had feedback with mine. Other than that, I really like it. The only caution I would offer for any turntable with servo controlled tonearm- if the servo or controller goes out, it's useless unless a good repair shop can be found. If I were to replace my table, I would go with a more simple version. I have a client who wanted a new turntable and I got a Pro-Ject for him, with a Sumiko Pearl (or Sapphire) cartridge. It's very nice and it doesn't break the bank. I looked at the Rega Planar and wasn't particularly impressed, even though I know it has a decent reputation. The Pro-Ject is fully manual and doesn't lift the arm at the end, which is something I'm not a fan of. I would like to find an automatic tonearm lift for it so if anyone has a recommendation, I'm all ears.

 

[Seth=L]

Out of curioisty, what modern tables did you compare them too? Did you actually listem to them and test them to reach this conclusion?

Unfortunately most modern tables pale in comparison to the tables on that list in sub $1000 price range. And you know that Chris isn't subjective when it comes to audio and accurate reproduction. No offense meant, but you are questioning his integrity based on what? You didn't make a recommendation, so I am to assume you had something in mind if you are questioning him. A recommendation would be far more constructive than this.

 

[WmAx]

Thank you for the link! That's a great price on that.

If I chose not to go the route of changing out the tone arm and kept the stock unit, would LPs and 45s still sound okay?

Here's another question: Does the 1200 come with a needle and headshell?

Also...perhaps you could assist me with a pre-hookup question. I want to transfer LPs and 45s to my Tascam CD recorder, but also hear the audio from the table as they record, so how would this work? Would the line out from the Technics go directly into the recorder's analog ins, or would they go into the integrated amp's PHONO in?

The stock tonearm sounds good. But if you want higher accuracy (less coloration), the Jelco arm is desired.

As for a cartridge, I recommend Denon DL-110. $140 USD. It is unique in it's price range, in that it has no comparable competition, regarding it's stylus diamond quality and objective performance. You must spend several times the cost to equal it, in most circumstances. This cartridge offers all of the characteristics of a premium quality unit at a bargain price: ultra-low noise floor, no inner groove distortion, perfect tracking of virtually any record, extremely linear/flat response and very low THD. I have measured/verified this product to perform exactly as described above. I choose to use this on my main system/turntable, and I won't accept any compromise in realistic performance/playback. I prefer this cartridge to my former $875 cartridge. You can pay plenty for 'fanciful coloration' or shop wisely and pay little for superb low coloration performance.

-Chris

 

[highfigh]

The stock tonearm sounds good. But if you want higher accuracy (less coloration), the Jelco arm is desired.

As for a cartridge, I recommend Denon DL-110. $140 USD. It is unique in it's price range, in that it has no comparable competition, regarding it's stylus diamond quality and objective performance. You must spend several times the cost to equal it, in most circumstances. This cartridge offers all of the characteristics of a premium quality unit at a bargain price: ultra-low noise floor, no inner groove distortion, perfect tracking of virtually any record, extremely linear/flat response and very low THD. I have measured/verified this product to perform exactly as described above. I choose to use this on my main system/turntable, and I won't accept any compromise in realistic performance/playback. I prefer this cartridge to my former $875 cartridge. You can pay plenty for 'fanciful coloration' or shop wisely and pay little for superb low coloration performance.

-Chris

What- no Koetsu with the rosewood body?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

While I appreciate all the powerful input guys, could anyone lend any more suggestions for new tables that are on the somewhat affordable side of the fence?

I know Sony has been mentioned for classic vintage quality, but what about their new line? I know a few are available...how about models like these:

http://www.crutchfield.com/g_10500/Turntables.html?tp=200

...would any of these be considered "decent"...maybe one of the Denons or Sonys?

I've heard about PROJect and brands such as that, but do they offer somewhat more affordable models than the high end esoteric tables?

I'm leaning towards getting a Technics 1200 in black, at the best price I can find it at, but I'd prefer something with an automatic return.

 

[Cristofori]

If you want some good info on the great Technics TT's and what you can do with them, check out this site http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/index.htm

The proprietor has nothing but praise for these TT's, and sells plain or modified versions of it. You can get the tone arm rewired, fluid damped or add 78 rpm speed and a whole host of other options.

Also, check out the other offerings. They sell all kinds of other TT's, parts and accessories a lot of other shops don't carry.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

If you want some good info on the great Technics TT's and what you can do with them, check out this site http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/index.htm

The proprietor has nothing but praise for these TT's, and sells plain or modified versions of it. You can get the tone arm rewired, fluid damped or add 78 rpm speed and a whole host of other options.

Also, check out the other offerings. They sell all kinds of other TT's, parts and accessories a lot of other don't carry.

Cris,

I checked out that site; thanks. I think for my needs I would just be OK going with a stock 1200, perhaps from the Abe's of Maine store I got the link to, but can you tell me if the stock 1200s come with the cart and needle? I know it comes assembled with the black honeycomb headshell, but what about a needle?

 

[Cristofori]

While I appreciate all the powerful input guys, could anyone lend any more suggestions for new tables that are on the somewhat affordable side of the fence?

I know Sony has been mentioned for classic vintage quality, but what about their new line? I know a few are available...how about models like these:

http://www.crutchfield.com/g_10500/Turntables.html?tp=200

...would any of these be considered "decent"...maybe one of the Denons or Sonys?

I've heard about PROJect and brands such as that, but do they offer somewhat more affordable models than the high end esoteric tables?

I'm leaning towards getting a Technics 1200 in black, at the best price I can find it at, but I'd prefer something with an automatic return.

Those new Sony TT's available now are laughable compared to what's being discussed here. If you want to go with a new (cheap) TT, then that
Audio-Technica AT-LP120USB looks decent. Even though it's pretty much an imitation of the venerable Technics SL-1200MK2SE, at least it looks cool, and unlike the Technics, can play 78's and has a greater pitch control range, which is cool if you like historical recordings like I do. It's also most definitely better built than that other stuff on Crutchfield. I've been thinking of getting one of these myself just for 78 rpm duty.

Speaking of Audio Technica, another great cartridge besides the Denon DL-110 WmAx mentioned, is the AT-440mla. I've been using this for years, with excellent results across the board. Prices range from $120 to $170 or more, so do your homework before shopping!

 

[Cristofori]

Cris,

I checked out that site; thanks. I think for my needs I would just be OK going with a stock 1200, perhaps from the Abe's of Maine store I got the link to, but can you tell me if the stock 1200s come with the cart and needle? I know it comes assembled with the black honeycomb headshell, but what about a needle?

I'm almost certain that you not find a Technics anywhere (unless used) that will come with a cartridge. At this price, it's already a great deal. Which is why it might be beneficial to shell out some extra bucks and have someone like the guy at KAB professionally install one for you, unless you want to buy the stuff and learn to do it yourself, if you don't already.

Of course, if you really can't afford this, I understand. Been there done that. We sometimes have to just grin and bare it and settle for less until the right time comes to move up the latter!

However, that Audio-Technica AT-LP120USB I mentioned at Crutchfield does come with an ATP-2 cartridge aligned and installed, but at the price of the whole unit ($299) it can't be that good, probably only a DJ beater cartridge.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Those new Sony TT's available now are laughable compared to what's being discussed here.

That's what I thought; figured I would just ask.

If you want to go with a new (cheap) TT, then that
Audio-Technica AT-LP120USB looks decent. Even though it's pretty much an imitation of the venerable Technics SL-1200MK2SE, at least it looks cool, and unlike the Technics, can play 78's and has a greater pitch control range, which is cool if you like historical recordings like I do. It's also most definitely better built than that other stuff on Crutchfield. I've been thinking of getting one of these myself just for 78 rpm duty.

Thanks for the feedback here. I don't have any 78RPM requirements, so I think I am going towards the Technics if I can find a good price on it. But I will consider that Audio Technica; funny enough, I used their needles, along with Ortofons, back when I spun and I have an AT attached to my old Technics I am going to replace...

Speaking of Audio Technica, another great cartridge besides the Denon DL-110 WmAx mentioned, is the AT-440mla. I've been using this for years, with excellent results across the board. Prices range from $120 to $170 or more, so do your homework before shopping!

For the initial time being, I'm going to use whatever stock cart comes on the table I get.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I'm almost certain the Technics will not come with a cartridge. At this price, it's already a great deal. Which is why it might be beneficial to shell out some extra bucks and have someone like the guy at KAB professionally install one for you, unless you want to buy the stuff and learn to do it yourself.

Of course, if you really can't afford this, I understand. Been there done that. We sometimes have to just grin and bare it and settle for less until the right time comes to move up the latter!

Thanks Cris. Much appreciated. I'll do some more homework!

 

[Cristofori]

Thanks for the feedback here. I don't have any 78RPM requirements, so I think I am going towards the Technics if I can find a good price on it. But I will consider that Audio Technica; funny enough, I used their needles, along with Ortofons, back when I spun and I have an AT attached to my old Technics I am going to replace...

That Audio Technica TT also plays 33 1/3 & 45 rpm of course, and it also has a USB port for recording to the PC. It could still be useful, even if you want to upgrade to a better TT later.

For the initial time being, I'm going to use whatever stock cart comes on the table I get.

OK, I understand, but you wont be getting a new Technics SL-1200MK2SE if that's the case.

Try the Audio Technica TT from Crutchfield. If it sounds unacceptable, just send it back. They are very easy to deal with for returns. Or try one of the lesser Project/Music Hall/Rega model TT's including cartridge from Audioadvisor.

You can also look for a nice vintage TT with cartridge on ebay/Audiogon or whatever, but you may not be able to return it, or get it repaired if it breaks.

I've been using a vintage Pioneer PL-10 TT I picked up in near mint condition from an estate sale for $15! The original protective plastic film was still over the aluminum plates, and the dust cover was intact!

I cleaned it up, bought a new belt, mat, aluminum headshell, and cartridge and I was in business!

Is it the greatest? No... but I'm in no hurry to trade it in for a Project/Rega/Music Hall whatever at those prices.