TurnTable Recommendations?

B

bombarde32

Audioholic
Well - I didn't see anything specific on TT recommendations. I'm looking for a basic model that does 1 thing and does it well - Play LPs. Any ideas on where to start looking? I'm not opposed to the used market but I've never dealt with TT's so "Needs a little TLC" is out of the question for me.

All this talk of cartridges and needles and on and on ... I have no idea what all these parts are for (yes, I'm that young and that new) or where to go shopping. Just really need an out of the box solution I can plug in and go.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Well - I didn't see anything specific on TT recommendations. I'm looking for a basic model that does 1 thing and does it well - Play LPs. Any ideas on where to start looking? I'm not opposed to the used market but I've never dealt with TT's so "Needs a little TLC" is out of the question for me.

All this talk of cartridges and needles and on and on ... I have no idea what all these parts are for (yes, I'm that young and that new) or where to go shopping. Just really need an out of the box solution I can plug in and go.
If it is plug and go you want, then turntables are not for you. You need to do some homework. All turntables, yes, right out of the box, need careful obsessional set up. Choice of the cartridge arm combination is also important.

These are the reasons for owning a turntable:-

So what are the reasons to have a turntable.

1). You already have a large LP collection.

2). You want to collect vintage LPs with music that is not, and never likely to be transferred to CD

3). You like playing LPs

4) You run a commercial archiving service.

5). Your choice in music contains a lot of items where the mix and post production work is really screwed up in CD and the LP is generally better.

Here is part of a post I did about a member having miss tracking issues. This post addresses the importance of careful turntable set up.

When a stylus is thrown out of the groove, (severe misstracking), the problem is usually one, or more often a combination of the following.

1). Inadequate stylus force. Best tracking and least record wear is obtained with a tracking force at the upper end of the cartridge manufacturers recommended range.

2). Excessively worn stylus.

3). Mismatch of cartridge weight, compliance and effective tone arm mass, so that the cartridge tone arm resonance is out of the optimal range.

4). Too low a cartridge compliance for the grooves being tracked.

5). Incorrect stylus overhang for minimum tracking error.

6). Insufficient attention to leveling of the turntable.

7). Improper skating force adjustment.

Now that turntables are making a comeback, we a going to see an epidemic of all the ills for which LP reproduction was known for in its hey day.

As I have stated before, turntables unlike digital equipment have greater degrees of improvement as you move up the price scale.

Loud passages with high dynamic and a lot of bass are hard to track.

This used to be particularly true in the classical arena where high dynamics and deep bass including organ pedals on the fortissimos used to cause no end of grief for budget turntables. So much so that there were regular complaints along the lines of yours. Fortunately the major, and minor labels for that matter, turned a deaf ear to the complaints, and mastered to the likes of the high end.

Shure used to issue an audio obstacle course LP. This was designed to sort the wheat from the chaff, and that it did. I still have my copy.

It is interesting that vinyl is making a minimal comeback in the classical arena.

So I suggest your first step is to check the parameters I listed above, and correct any deviations from optimal adjustment.

The other issue is that turntables need connecting to a high gain input with RIAA compensation. If your equipment does not have such an input, you will also need a phono preamp.

If you still think a turntable is a good fit for you, then please post back, with a details of your equipment, musical tastes and a budget.

The best place for your turntable needs, is The Needle Doctor. They have good gear for all budgets. Their staff are knowledgeable and helpful and can provide good guidance to the novice.
 
B

bombarde32

Audioholic
I do think it's still right for me b/c at some point (hoping sooner than later) I'll inherit my father's collection standing at about 400 LPs on top of the ones I already know I want to collect. Even if I don't buy a single one it would be much cheaper to buy the TT than recollect all that music on CD (as I do like most of his albums).

I'll be running this into a MAC-4100 which I'm pretty sure can handle it w/out a pre-amp. ;) And from there into Pioneer towers or Grado 125i headphones. I might plug it into my Integra to bring it out on my Paradigm Studio 60's but I'd prefer the McIntosh.

I MAY ... dunno yet ... have access to a Denon DP45f. Thumbs up? thumbs down?

Sorry about name dropping. I dont' think my equipment is something special. Just thought it might be useful for you to know the general quality range I'm trying to stay in. (i.e. I'm NOT going to buy the MT10).

Thanks!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I do think it's still right for me b/c at some point (hoping sooner than later) I'll inherit my father's collection standing at about 400 LPs on top of the ones I already know I want to collect. Even if I don't buy a single one it would be much cheaper to buy the TT than recollect all that music on CD (as I do like most of his albums).

I'll be running this into a MAC-4100 which I'm pretty sure can handle it w/out a pre-amp. ;) And from there into Pioneer towers or Grado 125i headphones. I might plug it into my Integra to bring it out on my Paradigm Studio 60's but I'd prefer the McIntosh.

I MAY ... dunno yet ... have access to a Denon DP45f. Thumbs up? thumbs down?

Sorry about name dropping. I dont' think my equipment is something special. Just thought it might be useful for you to know the general quality range I'm trying to stay in. (i.e. I'm NOT going to buy the MT10).

Thanks!
Yes, the Mac will handle moving magnet cartridges, but not low output moving coil. Yes, you fit the description of someone who could use a good turntable.

What is your budget? Would you rather have new or good vintage? In my view a good vintage turntable and arm can be a good way to go, although the cartridge should likely be newer.

The good vintage gear is still not cheap by the way.

Turntables being largely mechanical and dependent on precision engineering for good results, improve in quality quite markedly as you move up the food chain so to speak.

Welcome to the forums, and don't apologize for name dropping. We need to know what you have to help you. The other thing, it is junk to be ashamed of. Good quality well designed and built gear is a far better investment. Although I don't include the looney set in those remarks. Those individuals are known for chasing non existant and irrelevant problems and creating problems on the way.
 
B

bombarde32

Audioholic
I don't have to have vintage. But if the Denon fits the bill (it's free and it was my father's so ...).

It's been 12.5 years since I've heard it play and since then it's sat, been moved (not nicely), bumped, knocked, etc and I'm just not willing to offer an LP up to the audio gods for potential sacrifice to see if it sounds OK, Great or "meh."

I'm confident in the mechanics. Just not sure if it's worth investing in this unit or going for something else. I can't find a review of it to save my life (which may be telling me something right there).

Is there a good primer on TTs, how all the parts function, etc?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I don't have to have vintage. But if the Denon fits the bill (it's free and it was my father's so ...).

It's been 12.5 years since I've heard it play and since then it's sat, been moved (not nicely), bumped, knocked, etc and I'm just not willing to offer an LP up to the audio gods for potential sacrifice to see if it sounds OK, Great or "meh."

I'm confident in the mechanics. Just not sure if it's worth investing in this unit or going for something else. I can't find a review of it to save my life (which may be telling me something right there).

Is there a good primer on TTs, how all the parts function, etc?
Can you send us a model number or pictures of the Denon?
 
B

bombarde32

Audioholic
No need to buy a new turntable. You might well need a new cartridge. Do you know what the cartridge is?
Unfortunately, not at the moment. It's in Ohio and I'm in Louisiana. I'm still looking for a primer on TTs showing what the various parts do. I know what the needle and arm do but what is the cartridge's job and what's the difference between "moving magnet" and low whatever it was (Can't remember ... getting old :p).
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Unfortunately, not at the moment. It's in Ohio and I'm in Louisiana. I'm still looking for a primer on TTs showing what the various parts do. I know what the needle and arm do but what is the cartridge's job and what's the difference between "moving magnet" and low whatever it was (Can't remember ... getting old :p).
Here is a good guide, and you can make an alignment protractor from it.

I would stick to a good moving magnet cartridge. We can sort that out when we know what cartridge is on the turntable. I would try and bring that turntable back from Louisiana.

Moving coil types do not have a user replaceable stylus, and the best of them are expensive low output types you will need a preamp for.
 
B

bombarde32

Audioholic
Work to do

Well, I read the primer on TTs and it certainly isn't on par w/ the easy of hooking up a CD player or pulling speaker cable. But I think that's a good thing actually.

Anyone can walk into a shop, buy a bunch of gear and go cable it together. Granted - random purchases won't buy the best system at your price point but you can buy random quality parts and you will get a good system with virtually no effort. So in some ways there isn't much "fun" in buying components and hooking them up.

So I think this will be a unique way to engage in the overall setup and sound of my system. I'm looking forward to tackling this project (and putting my MAC back to good use after a decade of making sure the cabinet top stayed put!).
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Well, I read the primer on TTs and it certainly isn't on par w/ the easy of hooking up a CD player or pulling speaker cable. But I think that's a good thing actually.

Anyone can walk into a shop, buy a bunch of gear and go cable it together. Granted - random purchases won't buy the best system at your price point but you can buy random quality parts and you will get a good system with virtually no effort. So in some ways there isn't much "fun" in buying components and hooking them up.

So I think this will be a unique way to engage in the overall setup and sound of my system. I'm looking forward to tackling this project (and putting my MAC back to good use after a decade of making sure the cabinet top stayed put!).
Yes, you have the picture correct and the reason for the fascination of playing gramophone records.



Lots of fun to be had here. Then there are the joys of reel to reel, which will really give you something to fuss with!
 
B

bombarde32

Audioholic
Eh, no thanks!

I'll have to say "Thanks, but no thanks" on the reel to reel. I already have enough on my hands with this record player ... not the least of which is cleaning the entire collection (ugh!).

I also have a Philco that needs overhauled (electronics, cabinet, new speaker, etc etc) with records to be cleaned.

And sometime in there I have an antique office desk that's literally falling apart and needs to be torn down to the individual boards, cleaned up, and rebuilt. At least I finished the one room school-house desks last year. :cool:

Of course then there's the day job, wife, kids, piano/organ practice ... keeps me busy! At least I get to see GI Joe tonight! lol :D
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top