To upgrade or to not upgrade...???

[hsumix]

I currently own Paradigm Studio 60 v5. Love them. However, thru my local shop, I may have the chance to do the 1 yr upgrade to the Studio 100 v5 for a little bit of extra coin. My dilemma is tho, that I'm not 100% sure that it's worth the extra coin. Basically, my question is, should I just put my $$ towards a PrePro/amp for the 60's or upgrade to the 100's and do the PrePro/amp in another year or two? I use them mostly for music and my room is 18x11. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ski2xblack]

You don't mention subs at all. Do you have one? I would think adding a good sub to your 60's would be a greater improvement than moving from the 60's to 100's, which seems more of a lateral move to me.

I guess my vote is to keep the 60's which you admittedly enjoy the heck out of, and save your dollars for other, more dramatic changes.

 

[Grador]

I completely agree with ski2xblack, if you love 'em don't ditch 'em. If you feel like throwing some money at it, look for a sub.

 

[hsumix]

Thanks for vote! I did forget to mention that I have a sub already. I have a hsu vtf-3 mk-3. Not really gonna throw any money at that right now. Just wondering if I love the 60's would I love the 100's even more. Didn't know if anybody had experience or advice.

 

[Pyrrho]

This is the kind of question that is entirely subjective. Presumably, you have listened to the Studio 100 v5 and have an opinion on how much better it is than your Studio 60 v5. Is the difference worth the cost? depends on your financial situation, and on how much you personally value the difference in the sound. While you are thinking about replacing your speakers, you might want to audition some other speakers from different brands, to see if you would not prefer something else.

Also, since you love what you have, you may decide to forget about listening to anything else, and be happy with what you have.

I was planning on doing that when I had Aurum Cantus Leisure 2SE (original U.S. version) speakers, which I love, but I heard some Apogee Stage speakers and decided that they would be my main stereo speakers instead. I still use the Aurum Cantus speakers in my home theater, and have no plans on upgrading them. But I do not want to go back to them for my main 2 channel stereo.

For what it is worth, I would not guess it to be worth upgrading from the Paradigm Studio 60 v5 to the Paradigm Studio 100 v5, particularly since you have a subwoofer for the deeper bass anyway. But my guess isn't really of any importance in your decision. But if you are thinking of changing your speakers, I think you should listen to many different models to be sure that you really want the Paradigm Studio 100 v5 speakers instead of something else. Granted, it would be less convenient, since you probably will not get the same trade-in value with another brand, which might make it better to sell them to an individual if you were to decide on another brand of speaker. But I do think that it is a really good idea to think about all of one's options when one is considering an upgrade, rather than just going with a previous thought on what might be best.

 

[ski2xblack]

The thrill of "new speaker smell" aside, I think the real differences would be marginal at best; similar quality and a tiny bit more quantity, which you may not really need. Unless missing something in the dynamics department, I'd spend the money on music.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't think it will be much of an upgrade at all to go from S60 to S100 or to change amp.

What AVR/pre-pro do you have? If it is a Denon or Marantz, then don't change.

 

[hsumix]

I don't think it will be much of an upgrade at all to go from S60 to S100 or to change amp.

What AVR/pre-pro do you have? If it is a Denon or Marantz, then don't change.

I don't have a prepro or an amp right now at all.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't have a prepro or an amp right now at all.

Which AVR do you have? What is driving your speakers?

 

[hsumix]

Which AVR do you have? What is driving your speakers?

I have an Onkyo TX-SR608.

 

[hsumix]

Just went into my local dealer today and listened to some Vienna Acoustics Mozart...OH MY! I really enjoyed them. I had a side by side comparison of them w/ the Studio 100's...Paradigm definitely a bit brighter. But Vienna's sounded so smooth & effortless. I was impressed! Now to decide what to do. I think I have definitely dropped the thought on upgrading to the 100's. Now it may be a question of getting the Vienna's or staying w/ the Studio 60's and invest in an amp and prepro. Any thoughts?

 

[Pyrrho]

Just went into my local dealer today and listened to some Vienna Acoustics Mozart...OH MY! I really enjoyed them. I had a side by side comparison of them w/ the Studio 100's...Paradigm definitely a bit brighter. But Vienna's sounded so smooth & effortless. I was impressed! Now to decide what to do. I think I have definitely dropped the thought on upgrading to the 100's. Now it may be a question of getting the Vienna's or staying w/ the Studio 60's and invest in an amp and prepro. Any thoughts?

Speakers make more difference in sound than anything else. If your receiver can handle the impedance of the new speakers, that would be the way to go if you want a real sound improvement. If your receiver cannot handle the impedance of the new speakers, then you would also need a new ąmplifier to drive them. I would not bother with just replacing the receiver with separates, as that will give a minimal (or no) improvement over what you have now.

So, my advice is between these:

1. New speakers (and possibly new ąmplifier).
2. Just be happy with what you have.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That just shows you how measurements don't always mean much.

Vienna Acoustic (even their ultra expensive speakers) measure like crap compared to Paradigm in general. Yet you prefer the Vienna.

Do they have more bass?

 

[Alex2507]

I've heard some VA speakers at a Magnolia. They might have been the Mozarts ... MSRP ~ $3000 for the pair. They sounded pretty nice and had a relatively small form factor which is important to me. They certainly were not geared to being played loud but I'm a condo dweller so that was alright too.

I actually just went and dug out the notes I took on that listening session.

• Low end fills out nicely
• rich
• warm
• natural vocals
• nice slide guitar (organ)
• snare drum subdued

This was the Mozart Grand and I believe at 50% off each speaker sold for $750. I jotted the notes down in a hurry trying to use them for points of reference with other speakers but over all I liked them a lot. There was another thread about how thier measurements sucked and I care about measurements but my ears can't read graphs. Keep in mind that they would work well for me in a condo not being played loud and not sucking up all kinds of space I don't have. Don't anybody ask me what "rich" is either.

Anyway that day the only thing I liked better were the Martin Logan Vantage which were ~$5300 for the pair.

The Studio 100s will absolutely require some serious amplification. There was a thread about that way back as well. Warp and ParadigmDawg have both talked about that as owners. I'm not sure what kind of impedance dips and phase angles the 60s have but they will put out some serious SPLs in a big room without distorting. Room treatments might go a long way with those. Paired with a sub I don't know that I would be after anything else except a real step up in sound quality from the used market. That's just me.

 

[PENG]

I've heard some VA speakers at a Magnolia. They might have been the Mozarts ... MSRP ~ $3000 for the pair. They sounded pretty nice and had a relatively small form factor which is important to me. They certainly were not geared to being played loud but I'm a condo dweller so that was alright too.

I actually just went and dug out the notes I took on that listening session.

• Low end fills out nicely
• rich
• warm
• natural vocals
• nice slide guitar (organ)
• snare drum subdued

This was the Mozart Grand and I believe at 50% off each speaker sold for $750. I jotted the notes down in a hurry trying to use them for points of reference with other speakers but over all I liked them a lot. There was another thread about how thier measurements sucked and I care about measurements but my ears can't read graphs. Keep in mind that they would work well for me in a condo not being played loud and not sucking up all kinds of space I don't have. Don't anybody ask me what "rich" is either.

Anyway that day the only thing I liked better were the Martin Logan Vistas which were ~$5300 for the pair.

The Studio 100s will absolutely require some serious amplification. There was a thread about that way back as well. Warp and ParadigmDawg have both talked about that as owners. I'm not sure what kind of impedance dips and phase angles the 60s have but they will put out some serious SPLs in a big room without distorting. Room treatments might go a long way with those. Paired with a sub I don't know that I would be after anything else except a real step up in sound quality from the used market. That's just me.

The Studio 60 version 5 is not hard to drive at all. I am not sure about the 100 V5 but the version 3 had no trouble sounding their best with a RX-V2400 in a 13X17X9 (roughly) room I was in a few years back. People on forums (yes I read those comments about the Studios) say the same about the big RTi speaker (TLSG said that was due to their crossovers for those), basically if they know there exists a low dip in impedance, there are more than two 7" or larger bass drivers they would subconscieously convince themselves the speakers need lots of amp power to make them sound good. The bottom line is, it still depends on room dimensions, listening position and listening habbit of the individual. In a medium size (THX std) room, I am pretty sure even the 100 can sound their best with any decent 100W per channel amp. That's just me 0.00002 cents.

 

[Alex2507]

The Studio 60 version 5 is not hard to drive at all. I am not sure about the 100 V5 but the version 3 had no trouble sounding their best with a RX-V2400 in a 13X17X9 (roughly) room I was in a few years back. People on forums (yes I read those comments about the Studios) say the same about the big RTi speaker (TLSG said that was due to their crossovers for those), basically if they know there exists a low dip in impedance, there are more than two 7" or larger bass drivers they would subconscieously convince themselves the speakers need lots of amp power to make them sound good. The bottom line is, it still depends on room dimensions, listening position and listening habbit of the individual. In a medium size (THX std) room, I am pretty sure even the 100 can sound their best with any decent 100W per channel amp. That's just me 0.00002 cents.

I'm not up on which version who all had but those two guys had some big a$$ rooms. The reviews I read on the RX-V2500 and RX-V2600 spoke of their lessened capabilities with 4 Ohm loads. I'm not sure how audible that would be even while showing off speakers with music. I do agree that any decent 100 watt amp would do due to it's presumed stability with a 4 Ohm load.

I take my amp ques from you and have not been in any hurry to amp up anything. However I'm only a short step away from having everything amped up just the same. It's part of the disease.

 

[PENG]

I'm not up on which version who all had but those two guys had some big a$$ rooms. The reviews I read on the RX-V2500 and RX-V2600 spoke of their lessened capabilities with 4 Ohm loads. I'm not sure how audible that would be even while showing off speakers with music. I do agree that any decent 100 watt amp would do due to it's presumed stability with a 4 Ohm load.

I take my amp ques from you and have not been in any hurry to amp up anything. However I'm only a short step away from having everything amped up just the same. It's part of the disease.

That is a good part of the disease and you guys in the US have more affordable cures, namely, ATI, Outlaw and Emo, free shipping and no import duty, exchange fees etc. I hope you are getting at least 300WPC.

 

[Pyrrho]

I'm not up on which version who all had but those two guys had some big a$$ rooms. The reviews I read on the RX-V2500 and RX-V2600 spoke of their lessened capabilities with 4 Ohm loads. I'm not sure how audible that would be even while showing off speakers with music. I do agree that any decent 100 watt amp would do due to it's presumed stability with a 4 Ohm load.

I take my amp ques from you and have not been in any hurry to amp up anything. However I'm only a short step away from having everything amped up just the same. It's part of the disease.

I don't know what revięws you saw, but here are a couple of quotes about those receivers; first, for the Yamaha RX-V2500:

... it is not specified to drive 4 ohm loads but as you will see below, does a commendable job doing so.

...

Driving 4 ohm loads is certainly not the RX-V2500’s forte, but it did a commendable job considering. It was able to deliver 200wpc with one channel driven and about 110wpc with 2 channels driven unclipped.

RX-V2500 Benchmark Tests - Part 2 | Audioholics

And the Yamaha RX-V2600 (emphasis is in the original, not added):

We measured CONTINUOUS unclipped power into 4-ohms and showed that the Yamaha could easily drive a single channel from 20Hz to 20kHz at around 185Wrms (20Hz was showing 162wpc). At 8-ohms that measurement fell to around 127wpc (20 Hz was around 113wpc). With two channels driven, the Yamaha only lost a little power, coming in at around 122wpc with two channels at 8-ohms. These tests were conducted unclipped with distortion no greater than 0.5%. So in reality these are not max power figures but real world, clean continuous power measurements.

Yamaha RX-V2600 Benchmark Performance Tests | Audioholics

Not the most impressive ever for 4 ohms, but not too bad all things considered.

 

[fmw]

Thanks for vote! I did forget to mention that I have a sub already. I have a hsu vtf-3 mk-3. Not really gonna throw any money at that right now. Just wondering if I love the 60's would I love the 100's even more. Didn't know if anybody had experience or advice.

Ah, wondering. That's how you get addicted to audiophilia. If you enjoy what you have, then continue enjoying what you have.

 

[hsumix]

Ah, wondering. That's how you get addicted to audiophilia. If you enjoy what you have, then continue enjoying what you have.

Definitely addicted!...But having fun...there is always something better out there. So, if I have the chance to do the upgrade I guess why not? Looking at the Vienna Acoustic Mozarts now.