The end of the Wife Acceptance Factor! Automated Drop Down Speakers

Craig Gordon

Craig Gordon

Junior Audioholic



I, Craig Gordon DMD, have conquered the Wife Acceptance Factor.

I do not mean I have compromised speaker placement positions and audiophile standards. And I do not mean I have overridden my wife’s desires and my own to leave a room looking like a normal room. I have done both. I have my cake and I’m eating it too. I have created a new automated surroud speaker system. Nobody on the planet has this. It’s amazing. It basically puts your real surround speakers (NOT IN-WALLS!!) exactly where you want them, and puts them away when you are finished. It is accurate to 1/16 of an inch, automated, silent, and does not compromise any audiophile rules.

Let me start by saying that this project took me 7 months to get to where it is now, and as you can see it is not finished. But it is just so awesome I had to show it now. And all the engineering and planning is complete. I just need to finish the left side of the room. It is a Dolby Atmos 7.2.4 system using Kef R700 Left and Right fronts, Kef R600c Center, 4 Kef CCi200 ceiling speakers, and 4 Kef R300 side and rear surrounds. Electronics are Marantz. The surround speakers are exactly where they should be according to Dolby Atmos guidelines. The front and center speakers are where I had them originally. I also have two SVS SB13 Ultra subwoofers and I have not dealt with the wife acceptance factor on those. My wife is simply going to let me get away with them.

By the way, I am one of those guys that believe the room affects the sound far more than the speakers or electronics. The speakers could be any brand or cost level that you want. You are of course limited by size somewhat, but there is no reason this same thing could not be done with towers!

This is not a custom built media room. It is a living room converted to media room like most people have. However this system could easily be used in an actual custom built media room. Do any real audiophiles really want to have in-wall speakers in their custom built ultimate media room? OR do they want to have high quality free standing speakers placed away from the walls (actually away from everything!) so they can sound like an audiophile wants them to sound? And then be able to hide them automatically when they want?

This started when I decided I wanted a Dolby Atmos 7.2.4 system in my existing Family Room/Media Room. My wife said NO speakers on stands, No wires showing, No speakers on shelves to replace the art and knickknacks, NO in-wall speakers!! (Because there was art on the walls where I wanted to put them). Also, there was no room on the “back wall” to put speakers because there were windows running all the way across the back of the room. (These will eventually be covered by acoustic drapes or shades to replace the existing plantation shutters). I have a coffered ceiling which my wife did not want me to remove.
The project involved a ton of research, planning, engineering, and reading. It involved electrical, robotics, physics, acoustics, engineering, plumbing, air conditioning, and structural concerns. It involved screw-ups, errors, and hanging everything up temporarily to make sure it sounded good!

Each tweeter of the 4 surrounds is (or will be) exactly 18 inches above my ear when seated in my center media seat and all positioning was accomplished using lasers. The system puts these speakers in the same position plus or minus 1/32 of an inch. I could put them higher or lower. Notice the rear speakers are even toed in!

You are probably thinking “Well, that’s cute but I don’t have a giant attic above my media room”. Either do I! The entire system runs horizontally through the ceiling between my first and second floors.
The main question you should be asking is “how does that cable work?” It could be a spool out cable like Stage Ninja makes (and I considered), but those all use a sliding contact. A sliding contact is a weak and poor contact that begins wearing out the first day you use it. Eventually, it does wear out! It is not an audiophile solution. I also considered simply hooking up a cable by hand when the speakers were down and removing it before putting them up. But what if I accidentally hit the up button while the cables were attached? Yikes. The cable you see is a 12 gauge oxygen free copper speaker cable that is continuous from amplifier output to speaker input. There is no break in it. How did I get it to pull itself back up into the ceiling without tangling or getting caught? The answer is not “it’s on a pulley or spool”. The physics of the situation is that no pulley or spool placed in a cable path will allow a continuous unbroken cable to spool out or in without putting that cable somewhere else. I might have used a counterweight to pull the excess cable in a specific path. But I did not, because I had no place to put a counterweight which obviously would have to travel down as the speakers go up. My method is more accurate, safer, and better. This entire system was retrofitted to my existing situation in the space between my media room ceiling and upstairs bedroom floors which by pure coincidence was 14 inches. The big Kef R300 bookshelf is 25 pounds and 15.5 inches tall, but I was able to make more space by placing acoustic absorption and fabric on my ceilings. This fabric also covers the 4 ceiling speakers, and even though it decreased my ceiling height (10.5 ft) to 10.25 ft it is completely unnoticeable.

True, I have not included the actual parts or design. I’m involved with some companies right now and I’m not quite prepared to do that. But I will.

Advantages:
1. Allows any speaker position in the room relative to seated listener position.
2. Allows any speaker height relative to seated listener position No speaker stands to knock over! Safer than stands. I could add another 200 pounds to each speaker and the cables would hold easily.
3. Allows you to place speakers where they SHOULD be placed in the room relative to seated listener position
4. No wires to trip over
5. No sound transmission through floor or shelves that would normally be caused by the speakers sitting there
6. It’s so COOL!
7. Does not look ugly! It looks awesome!
8. Disappears when you want.
9. Parts are relatively cheap.
10. Relatively silent operation
11. Operated by remote control, switch, or phone app.
12. When the system is hidden, nobody can poke at your speaker drivers.
13. Speakers final up and down position is accurate
14. System is silent
15. Speaker movement start by accelerating to speed then ends with deceleration to stop. No abrupt movements.

Disadvantages
1. Complicated engineering involved
2. Labor intensive
3. Expensive to have built.
4. Could be dangerous if activated when someone is standing directly below them. But the movement is pretty slow as you can see. Also, I could easily setup an electric eye system that would stop movement should anyone cross the movement path. Getting something out of the cabinets below and standing up quickly without looking could result in a whack to the head.
5. Oddly shaped or coffered ceilings could present some difficulties.
6. The way the system is currently set up, physically lifting the speakers or intentionally impeding their downward travel might possibly throw things out of adjustment.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Good luck with that project. You married guys make me so glad I'm single so very often....
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
I thought speakers should be fixed because of moving parts. Won't they swing at higher volume?
 
Craig Gordon

Craig Gordon

Junior Audioholic
I thought speakers should be fixed because of moving parts. Won't they swing at higher volume?
I checked very carefully into this because I didnt want to go through the trouble if it might affect the "solidity" of the sound. No, the woofer cone (and most certainly not the tweeter) will not move the speaker no matter how low in frequency and loud it is played. The mass differences are way too different. And of course these are crossed over at 80hz.

Yes, sound waves could get transmitted to the shelf or floor that a speaker is sitting on, but the speaker cabinet only vibrates because of the reflected sound inside the speaker, not because the cones move the speaker.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
I checked very carefully into this because I didnt want to go through the trouble if it might affect the "solidity" of the sound. No, the woofer cone (and most certainly not the tweeter) will not move the speaker no matter how low in frequency and loud it is played. The mass differences are way too different. And of course these are crossed over at 80hz.
This is what I was thinking.

Yes, sound waves could get transmitted to the shelf or floor that a speaker is sitting on, but the speaker cabinet only vibrates because of the reflected sound inside the speaker, not because the cones move the speaker.
Not this.

So, no problems there? Fine.
 
B

bommai

Audioholic Intern
My wife does not say anything when keep changing stuff in our theater room. I am more sensitive in the living room but theater room almost anything goes! I guess I am lucky


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Very well done. Nice to see uncompromising setups.
 
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Craig Gordon

Craig Gordon

Junior Audioholic
My wife does not say anything when keep changing stuff in our theater room. I am more sensitive in the living room but theater room almost anything goes! I guess I am lucky


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
My wife does allow the two subwoofers. But she isnt happy about them....
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Subwoofers can definitely move on a floor due to the action of the cone, I've done it (on carpet with no feet on the sub cabinet). Small bookshelves I don't know but suspect they could move a bit...but probably not enuf to worry about "swinging" would be my guess. You should conduct some experiments :)
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Nice idea, looks good and well thought out and engineered. They WILL swing to some extent, but not likely from cone movement. Suspended speakers work well actually, though I am not sure I'd do it that way; for what was done it seems like the best solution. Nice work.

Still, it seems a fix to a problem that stems from the whole WAF thing. WAF assumes you have a WAF problem...and that means there's a disconnect. To me, keeping her happy should not mean she gets whatever she wants on ALL counts; you're supposed to be a team.
 
Craig Gordon

Craig Gordon

Junior Audioholic
Subwoofers can definitely move on a floor due to the action of the cone, I've done it (on carpet with no feet on the sub cabinet). Small bookshelves I don't know but suspect they could move a bit...but probably not enuf to worry about "swinging" would be my guess. You should conduct some experiments :)
I wouldnt try this with subwoofers. Too heavy and I would be concerned about movement as well. But if I had the ceiling space, I would try this with full range towers if the correct logistics presented itself.
 
Craig Gordon

Craig Gordon

Junior Audioholic
[
Nice idea, looks good and well thought out and engineered. They WILL swing to some extent, but not likely from cone movement. Suspended speakers work well actually, though I am not sure I'd do it that way; for what was done it seems like the best solution. Nice work.

Still, it seems a fix to a problem that stems from the whole WAF thing. WAF assumes you have a WAF problem...and that means there's a disconnect. To me, keeping her happy should not mean she gets whatever she wants on ALL counts; you're supposed to be a team.
I actually titled the thread "End of the Wife Acceptance Factor" to be funny. Its really about the automated speaker system. My wife does absolutely love the atmos sound system and ultimately she would let me do what I wanted. I also like the idea of family room/media room continuing to look like a family room. Notice the couch. Its a beautiful upscale couch, but it does have reclining seats. Sort of a compromise between home theater and family room.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I don't mean you specifically, but WAF taking over seems to be a common thing.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
That's pretty slick!

But just try to work that with truly WAF violating speakers.
 
Craig Gordon

Craig Gordon

Junior Audioholic
That's pretty slick!

But just try to work that with truly WAF violating speakers.
I could do it. Each one of those 1/16 inch stainless steel cables will hold 480 lbs. Thats 4 cables per speaker or almost 2000 lbs support! Plus, i could use thicker cable if I wanted. The limiting factor is only the space that it goes into. If you had a 6 foot tower speaker, it obviously could not be hidden in a joist space. But certainly it would fit in an attic.

The speakers here are Kef R300 at 25 pounds each. With a heavier speaker, you need to consider the structural integrity of the speaker cabinet when deciding where to connect the cables.
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Super job. May consider a small molding frame on the bottom, perhaps covered with your ceiling material or color, to cover that small crack.
Are the lifts homemade or bought?
The Atmos speakers lower a bit or they are ceiling mounted?
What is your screen size?
 
Craig Gordon

Craig Gordon

Junior Audioholic
Super job. May consider a small molding frame on the bottom, perhaps covered with your ceiling material or color, to cover that small crack.
Are the lifts homemade or bought?
The Atmos speakers lower a bit or they are ceiling mounted?
What is your screen size?
That small crack is the exact amount necessary to allow the speakers to properly get into the space in case they are swinging a bit.
Lifts are custom built by me
The atmos speakers are fixed in place, but lowered a bit to help clear the coffer mouldings. They will ultimately all be covered by fabric.
Screen is a Sony X940D 75 inch
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Been thinking about this setup. If they were mounted on solid rods and you had the right room above, could do dual systems at the touch of a button....

Another thing I've been thinking about is how are these speakers Atmos related?
 
Craig Gordon

Craig Gordon

Junior Audioholic
Been thinking about this setup. If they were mounted on solid rods and you had the right room above, could do dual systems at the touch of a button....

Another thing I've been thinking about is how are these speakers Atmos related?
Not sure what you mean by solid rods. Though at one point i did consider using hollow steel or aluminum tubing "levers" with a pivot point at one end that would swing down to raise and lower the speakers with the speaker cable running through the tubing. By using a pulley and cable system I am able to lower them straight down from a tight overhead space. An attic would make the entire thing much easier. I will ultimately have two motors working 2 sets of speakers. But I could (in hindsight) hook all 4 to the same motor. The moving speakers are only the Left Surround and Left Rear Surround of a 7.2.4 atmos system. The actual 4 atmos ceiling speakers are mounted in the ceiling and do not move. I only show the left surround and left rear surround because the rights are not motorized yet and are just hanging (so that I can use them - Im actually recovering from a surgery and will not be able to get them for a few weeks, but will post once the entire system is together).
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Not sure what you mean by solid rods. I will ultimately have two motors working 2 sets of speakers. But I could (in hindsight) hook all 4 to the same motor. The moving speakers are only the Left Surround and Left Rear Surround of a 7.2.4 atmos system. The actual 4 atmos ceiling speakers are mounted in the ceiling and do not move. I only show the left surround and left rear surround because the rights are not motorized yet and are just hanging (so that I can use them - Im actually recovering from a surgery and will not be able to get them for a few weeks, but will post once the entire system is together).
Ah, thanks for the clarification! Solid rods could push the speaker up above the floor in the room above was my thought, but would have to be right combo of height from ceiling/floor in each room, so not so practical altho you could probably devise something to provide some flexibility but can't see a cable pushing a speaker into position in the room above. My theoretical room above would have to be pretty specifically mated to the one below. (ps The ability to step on the section of the floor the speaker would emerge from would be a pretty thorny problem, too I suppose ;) ).

In my living room ceiling this would be a pain in the butt to install....but without any WAF to consider, that's not an issue in my remotest dreams (and I'd have an issue in even being in that room as currently decorated...the bric a brac in the cabinet thing is scary.... but that's probably just another indicator of my singleness :) ).
 

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